SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 36: SPURS AT BULLS, 6-1-2025, 7PM (CT)

[mikejames23]

I watched this because they are another play-in team.

What I don't dig about Bulls game... always get into guys that don't win games. Zach LaVine, Vooch, Giddey... def. not the right kind of group to build a winning culture. We used to have a strong culture in the Duncan era, but that really needs to come back here.

Wemby with 8 blocks. I can't believe we're almost halfway. Could nab the 8th seed for a 1st round party with OKC.

[G R E Y]

4TH Q: SPURS 110 BULLS 114

Patterns. Patterns. Patterns.

Another game, another 4TH Q in which we forgot how to score. Or went away from what got us good easy points and **** around and foudn out. Again.

An IPA later, and I'm more reason fuced about this outcome.

One: as I said, we went away from what worked. And they implemented it on us. Eh voila.

As Dorian said, bad shot selection. I'd add bad shot creation. Bad clock management. Bad movement. One pass and long heave early in the clock? Or too late? Just so anti-clutch. Especially given how we were able to stave off their runs throughout the game and keep pulling away.

We had too many swings in which we went for the killer 3 too early and it ended up killing us, giving up 3s the other way. At least twice. That's a 12-point swing.

Two: yet another half a game of high effort and BBIQ. We still need to give a consistne 48-minute effort. Yes there are ebbs and flows to a game, runs and counter runs, but we went away from the sets, schemes, game control that got us a 19-point lead. A 19-point lead we had in the 3RD Q that we blew away.

Three: Wemby will need to get better at game reads and game situation needs. Early TOs added up. Late poor shot selection, equalled the end result. Incredible game overall and we aren't where and who we are without him. But it doesn't mean he doesn't carry the weight of his errors, and we need the game to be cleaner.

Four: How many shots did Wemby get in the 4TH? My sense is that we are looking to raise the floor with other players besides and beside and in addition to Wemby learn to finish games, learn to handle pressure scoring situations, learn to make great plays. To that end, Devin had one of his best defensive efforts this season, running down at least three fast breaks and getting blocks. He has been a bit faster in making decisions with the ball, but he isn't the best navigator of space and quality decision making, especially in half court. Take down a C? Well done. Curl drive past a screen? Well done. Create space and get to his pet middy spots? Well done. Pass the ball to Sochan for a late 3 attempt. Well, don't. Go ISO instead of running our sets? Ditto. It's hard to criticize guys who played great overall, but they're the ones setting the tone for all the other young guys, and ISO plays when our movement, team-first passing and movement got us a 19-point lead -- NINETEEN! -- and then to go away from it is weird. I even get trying different things, like when we're up by a lot, but not late when we need quick quality buckets. What are our go-to plays? Sets?

Is a Sochan 3 and that **** travesty of a release form, complete with a weirdo hitch that takes up precious time, THE play? Again we went to it, again he missed. There's a reason teams love to gamble on leaving him open. THEY scheme for it and we play right into it. Unless and until Sochan proves to be a competent shooter from there, SET THAT UP FOR SOMEONE ELSE. Like a good 3s shooter. ****.

He was a best on the boards, on O putbacks, on cuts, on drives. But there's no hiding that brutal form and inefficiency.

We need higher quality back up Cs badly.

And what does Mamu have to do to get some damn playing time?! He's been terrific every time he's out there. Just not out there nearly enough.

I don’t mind us trying players other than Wemby to step up. I don’t love that there’s an imbalance between self-creation and actually running our schemes. Again, we are at our best when we have movement and multiple threats to choose from and best exploit. Sochan 3 late isn’t it. At least not yet. If ever? We’ll see.

We got beaten on the boards, on second chance points, on PITP.

Five starters in double figures, eight Spurs in double figures in total, a near tripl double with blocks by Wemby, all but Devin were more or less efficient. Wemby (4-11) and Devin (1-7?!) shot half of their attempts from beyond the arc. Wemby 1-2FTs; Devin, 0. Not the balance of shot selection and drive we want. Yes Devin drove but he was 1-3 at the rim and 4-5 in long range 2s (well, one was a top of the key miss). I liked Wemby’s shot chart for the most part, except for the ill-timed 3s. Early clock ISO hero ball when we have the lead or when we can *create* smarter shots is better recognition. Of course he’s the best player on the team and of course we want him to be clutch, but there are many paths to doing so.

And in a four-point game, we went 7-13FTs. OOF.

Our bench was great. 37 points. Efficient. Castle led the second unit with 6 assists. His team high +3 is a credit to him and a damning wide lens on the team. Julian led the team with 4-6 from 3. Keldon great hustle, cuts, drives to the rim. Tre terrific energy on both ends.

We just lost our own plot, or chose to go away from it, or chose to try other things. We used to be clutch, going after what worked for us. We used to outscore opponents very well in the 3RD Qs. Now it’s either we start super hot and you can’t trust it because of the inevitable wane. Case in point: we have 31 points *combined* in the last two 4TH Qs. Or we start slow and we hope for a better later burn. It’s easy to overlook and kind of boring in its simplicity but every play really does count. And in close games, they really do add up to wins or losses. Still waiting for full game effort.

[imagump1313]

I watched this because they are another play-in team.

What I don't dig about Bulls game... always get into guys that don't win games. Zach LaVine, Vooch, Giddey... def. not the right kind of group to build a winning culture. We used to have a strong culture in the Duncan era, but that really needs to come back here.

Wemby with 8 blocks. I can't believe we're almost halfway. Could nab the 8th seed for a 1st round party with OKC.

I know what you mean but I dont think Giddey is in that category. Im not giving him a pass. It was totally stupid what he did but he was also pretty much a kid and we all did stupid things as a kid. I get everyone is down on him but for non basketball reasons. He can really play if engaged. I would be excited for him to play here.

[G R E Y]

I watched this because they are another play-in team.

What I don't dig about Bulls game... always get into guys that don't win games. Zach LaVine, Vooch, Giddey... def. not the right kind of group to build a winning culture. We used to have a strong culture in the Duncan era, but that really needs to come back here.

Wemby with 8 blocks. I can't believe we're almost halfway. Could nab the 8th seed for a 1st round party with OKC.

I know what you mean but I dont think Giddey is in that category. Im not giving him a pass. It was totally stupid what he did but he was also pretty much a kid and we all did stupid things as a kid. I get everyone is down on him but for non basketball reasons. He can really play if engaged. I would be excited for him to play here.

Why? He's an abysmal shooter. Career defined by inefficiency. And to think he was with Chip. There's a reason OKC moved on from him and hasn't missed a beat and a reason why Chi isn't all that better with him.

I get improving our team, and we even if we did somehow put aside the off court stuff, we already have D first players with major O holes in their games. Like I'd rather we went after LaVine than Giddey. At least this Zach could take pressure off Wemby and create his own shots down the stretch. Drama free guy.

[imagump1313]

I watched this because they are another play-in team.

What I don't dig about Bulls game... always get into guys that don't win games. Zach LaVine, Vooch, Giddey... def. not the right kind of group to build a winning culture. We used to have a strong culture in the Duncan era, but that really needs to come back here.

Wemby with 8 blocks. I can't believe we're almost halfway. Could nab the 8th seed for a 1st round party with OKC.

I know what you mean but I dont think Giddey is in that category. Im not giving him a pass. It was totally stupid what he did but he was also pretty much a kid and we all did stupid things as a kid. I get everyone is down on him but for non basketball reasons. He can really play if engaged. I would be excited for him to play here.

Why? He's an abysmal shooter. Career defined by inefficiency. And to think he was with Chip. There's a reason OKC moved on from him and hasn't missed a beat and a reason why Chi isn't all that better with him.

I get improving our team, and we even if we did somehow put aside the off court stuff, we already have D first players with major O holes in their games. Like I'd rather we went after LaVine than Giddey. At least this Zach could take pressure off Wemby and create his own shots down the stretch. Drama free guy.

I wasn't saying "Lets go out and get him". I was just saying he doesnt have the track record Lavine and Vucevic have. The guy is what? 22? And the last year and a half he's had more important things to worry about than basketball. When Paul's contract is up he will be 24. He might figure things out by then. I like him as a player. I doubt he was coached up much in OKC and I know for sure he isnt being coached at all in Chicago.

I get Lavine, but that contract is a major NO

[G R E Y]

I know what you mean but I dont think Giddey is in that category. Im not giving him a pass. It was totally stupid what he did but he was also pretty much a kid and we all did stupid things as a kid. I get everyone is down on him but for non basketball reasons. He can really play if engaged. I would be excited for him to play here.

Why? He's an abysmal shooter. Career defined by inefficiency. And to think he was with Chip. There's a reason OKC moved on from him and hasn't missed a beat and a reason why Chi isn't all that better with him.

I get improving our team, and we even if we did somehow put aside the off court stuff, we already have D first players with major O holes in their games. Like I'd rather we went after LaVine than Giddey. At least this Zach could take pressure off Wemby and create his own shots down the stretch. Drama free guy.

I wasn't saying "Lets go out and get him". I was just saying he doesnt have the track record Lavine and Vucevic have. The guy is what? 22? And the last year and a half he's had more important things to worry about than basketball. When Paul's contract is up he will be 24. He might figure things out by then. I like him as a player. I doubt he was coached up much in OKC and I know for sure he isnt being coached at all in Chicago.

Why do you doubt he was coached up in OKC? He's been a starter since he entered the league. Every game. His averages are about the same. He's had every chance to make an impact. At some point, it's on a player to show improvement within a team's given schemes and opportunities.

Even as a hypothetical, we are guard heavy already. Sure some or several will get replaced, but that's what the draft is for, or consolidating assets for, say, a back up C.

Those off court things he's had to worry about are self-inflicted; poor guy, hanging around high schools. Whatever. I get what you're saying about not branding the rest of a guy's career with it, but we are no longer in reclamation project mode.

We already have a great young guard prospect. Castle. 20. Much better all around player. Wants it more.

[imagump1313]

Why? He's an abysmal shooter. Career defined by inefficiency. And to think he was with Chip. There's a reason OKC moved on from him and hasn't missed a beat and a reason why Chi isn't all that better with him.

I get improving our team, and we even if we did somehow put aside the off court stuff, we already have D first players with major O holes in their games. Like I'd rather we went after LaVine than Giddey. At least this Zach could take pressure off Wemby and create his own shots down the stretch. Drama free guy.

I wasn't saying "Lets go out and get him". I was just saying he doesnt have the track record Lavine and Vucevic have. The guy is what? 22? And the last year and a half he's had more important things to worry about than basketball. When Paul's contract is up he will be 24. He might figure things out by then. I like him as a player. I doubt he was coached up much in OKC and I know for sure he isnt being coached at all in Chicago.

Why do you doubt he was coached up in OKC? He's been a starter since he entered the league. Every game. His averages are about the same. He's had every chance to make an impact. At some point, it's on a player to show improvement within a team's given schemes and opportunities.

Even as a hypothetical, we are guard heavy already. Sure some or several will get replaced, but that's what the draft is for, or consolidating assets for, say, a back up C.

Those off court things he's had to worry about are self-inflicted; poor guy, hanging around high schools. Whatever. I get what you're saying about not branding the rest of a guy's career with it, but we are no longer in reclamation project mode.

We already have a great young guard prospect. Castle. 20. Much better all around player. Wants it more.

You have no idea if Castle wants it more LOL. How could you possibly know that? Yes Giddey's problems are self inflicted. I already said that. Besides Castle, I dont think I would miss any of our other guards anyway. Like I already said, Im not saying lets go get him at any cost. The guy hasn't even been in the league barely 3 years. You guys talk about him like he's a 20 year vet that never accomplished anything.

[G R E Y]

I wasn't saying "Lets go out and get him". I was just saying he doesnt have the track record Lavine and Vucevic have. The guy is what? 22? And the last year and a half he's had more important things to worry about than basketball. When Paul's contract is up he will be 24. He might figure things out by then. I like him as a player. I doubt he was coached up much in OKC and I know for sure he isnt being coached at all in Chicago.

Why do you doubt he was coached up in OKC? He's been a starter since he entered the league. Every game. His averages are about the same. He's had every chance to make an impact. At some point, it's on a player to show improvement within a team's given schemes and opportunities.

Even as a hypothetical, we are guard heavy already. Sure some or several will get replaced, but that's what the draft is for, or consolidating assets for, say, a back up C.

Those off court things he's had to worry about are self-inflicted; poor guy, hanging around high schools. Whatever. I get what you're saying about not branding the rest of a guy's career with it, but we are no longer in reclamation project mode.

We already have a great young guard prospect. Castle. 20. Much better all around player. Wants it more.

You have no idea if Castle wants it more LOL. How could you possibly know that? Yes Giddey's problems are self inflicted. I already said that. Besides Castle, I dont think I would miss any of our other guards anyway. Like I already said, Im not saying lets go get him at any cost. The guy hasn't even been in the league barely 3 years. You guys talk about him like he's a 20 year vet that never accomplished anything.

It's true that wanting it more is a judgement call. And I've seen enough of Castle's game in the first near half a season of his very young career to bet that he won't plateau given every opportunity to improve. Giddey started as a good if raw prospect and has continued to put up pedestrian numbers on poor efficiency. I guess we'll see where Castle is by year 4 and have a chance to compare.

I agree that Giddey is a better talent than most of our guards. Ok a lotto pick is better than Branham, Blake, and Tre. So besides Castle and Dev, that's not really saying much. We did trade away Murray and White, though, each of whom is a better, hungrier player, to bottom out which we did.

Three and a half seasons as starter is enough time to make some assessments. Say year one is adjustment to the league. Rough for most rookies. Ok. Since then, Giddey has been pretty consistently meh. He has consistent usage %, always starting, has consistently abysmal efficiency *anywhere outside three feet!* throughout his career. Doesn't really have a beat his man handles package, or a go to shot. So a tall young player with good D and passing who has not shown any O improvements added to his tool kit. I don't bet on a player who has shown this consistently, one who was benched late in games in OKC before the trade due to his unreliable O, to suddenly take a leap. Chicago has made that bet in trading for him. They took a shot that Giddey has more to his mental approach and to his overall game that has yet to be uncovered. And... pretty much similar stats so far on similar efficiency and usage. And he's up for a contract renewal...

Yes Giddey is young but I don't think we need 20 years in retrospect to make a judgement call. Just based on what we've seen so far, it would be a waste of assets to acquire a player that doubles down on what we already have - incomplete guards, especially with Castle who has more stones to try and make things happen with the ball in his hands. You can see drive and resoluteness and courage in a player. You can gauge progression based on what a player shows just as you can project plateauing based on what he doesn't.

I'd rather we consolidate assets elsewhere even as I appreciate a different pov on a player who yes gets disregarded because of the off court stuff.