GT: Spurs vs. Pistons

[Nolan]

GREAT D by Manu. We really needed that.

[co_laper]

Detroit up 3 now. Spurs can't get any offense going with that small lineup.

But the Green, Kawhi, RJ small lineup is better than in years past where we had Hill, Manu, RJ at the SG/SF/PF spot. This is a better rebounding group and has better size.

[Blkbrd671]

i'm sorry but hack a ben and flopping


i had forgotten why i hate you guys, Sean elliot doesn't help either

[co_laper]

Parker Manu RJ Bonner Duncan unit will likely finish this game off.

[Nolan]

i'm sorry but hack a ben and flopping


i had forgotten why i hate you guys, Sean elliot doesn't help either

Elliot is horrible, but I love the hack a Ben and Manu's defense.

[Nolan]

Co you watching on league pass? Seems like you have a delayed feed.

[Nolan]

Amazing floater by TP, that was so clutch.

[Nolan]

Gordon's tech basically ended this game for the Pistons. What a bone headed thing to do.

[co_laper]

Not a delayed feed. I was watching the end of NY game so I stopped the Spurs game for a few minutes. I'm about 4 minutes delayed.

you guys kinda ruined it for me. I'm just waiting for the hack a ben to happen now. lol.

[Nolan]

Not a delayed feed. I was watching the end of NY game so I stopped the Spurs game for a few minutes. I'm about 4 minutes delayed.

you guys kinda ruined it for me. I'm just waiting for the hack a ben to happen now. lol.

Ahh lol, sorry dude.

[co_laper]

There you go, it finally happens. right before the 2 minute mark. 2:17 left to be exact.

[Blkbrd671]

i'm sorry but hack a ben and flopping


i had forgotten why i hate you guys, Sean elliot doesn't help either

Elliot is horrible, but I love the hack a Ben and Manu's defense.

i want to kick elliot in the face.

anyways good game, so glad it got exciting at the end, it was depressing as our two teams used to do battles. thought it was nice to see BW and Timmy go at it.


BG such an idiot, personally i think he did on purpose, we're on a tank with frank campaign.

still hate you guys and your flopping but love timmy to death. Good luck on your next game

[SinJackal]

Man, I hated watching that game. Seemed like it was gearing up to be a blowout win, then suddenly the 2nd unit can't play a lick of defense. Then it's a 7 point game, so they put Duncan back in. . .but the momentum was already strong for the Pistons, so it just continued. it wasn't until Parker went back on the floor that the Spurs even had a chance to win the game. Ridiculous. . .

As much as I like Neal (as a SG), we're not going anywhere if he's our backup PG. We badly need TJ Ford back to run that role for us. Then we can put Neal back to his regular role of microwave SG.

Glad we got a W, but with how hard fought that game was, I worry what will happen tomorrow against the Raptors. I figured the Raptors game might be difficult depending on how poorly the Pistons game went. Sure enough. . . >_>

On the bright side, we're 7-8 on the road now after starting 0-5. So 7-3 since the poor start against all those +.500 teams, 4 of those games without Manu. Is it safe to say we're not a bad road team anymore? Or should we wait until the rodeo trip concludes to make that decision?


On a side note, I would love it if we could trade for Ben Wallace to close out the season with him. Maybe James Anderson + next year's 1st round pick (though I hate to give that up since the Spurs always draft so well). We still need another big man. I think if we got Wallace, we could just use Blair as the backup PF, and use Wallace/Splitter as our centers. Could work, yeah? It couldn't hurt to have extra big man depth to help against LA and Memphis. And since the front office already went on record in saying they won't re-sign James Anderson, he's obviously a moveable piece. I think he has potential though, so I hate to see him go (I also liked Alonzo Gee last year and wished we at least traded him and got a draft pick out of it), but we need another big a lot more than to see JA in garbage time.

i'm sorry but hack a ben and flopping


i had forgotten why i hate you guys, Sean elliot doesn't help either

Hack a Ben is a smart strategy, Really nothing more to say about it than that. It kills a team's momentum when it works (and it did). If a player can't hit FTs, then it forces his coach to make a decision and take him off the floor in close games. It's a great strategy.


Manu had to start flopping because the refs weren't calling OBVIOUS fouls and ignoring elbows to the face by the Pistons (and yes, the flopping started immediately after the non call on the obvious Duncan foul and elbow to Duncan's face after he was fouled). When you're getting zero respect by the refs who aren't calling legitimate fouls, you have to start flopping to attempt to tilt the horrible officiating back to a normal balance. Pistons were getting every call and were not getting called for their fouls.

You have to flop in those situations. If you don't, or think that you don't, then you don't have a winner's mentality, and no sense of justice at all. The Spurs would have lost the game had they not flopped to get that call. FYI, he flopped again later and got called for a block despite getting pushed off and not making any contact himself. So the refs penalized the Spurs for flopping by calling a phantom foul at least once.


And I personally would rather see a flop foul called than a phantom foul called. At least the players would be effecting the outcome of the game then, not the refs choosing to do it out of thin air.

Gordon's tech basically ended this game for the Pistons. What a bone headed thing to do.

I think the Pistons already had the game lost anyway. Parker is a clutch FT shooter and hit both of his regular FTAs anyway. Spurs would've still made it a two possession game even without the tech.

They were only in the game because the refs swallowed the whistle on their hack job defensive plays and elbows while at the same time they were hitting nearly every shot. As soon as pop started playing Hack-a-Ben, it killed their momentum. Their offense cooled off after that and the game was over. imo anyway.

[co_laper]

I wouldn't blame the late run Pistons had to our defense. I mean, I recall the first one was a Ben Wallace FT jumper (something that we'd give everytime). And then it was a Ben Wallace 3 point shot with the shotclock up. And then it was a back to back three pointer from the Pistons. Suddenly it's a game. They made some great plays and got the crowd back into it. They're at home and after that, they're just feeding off from the crowd. The fact that we were able to withstand that last run was a testament to our team IMO. That 4th quarter was very entertaining IMO. If Detroit could play that hard and that physical, they'd be better than their record.

I agree with the hack a ben strategy. It's a good strategy to kill momentum and that's exactly what Detroit had going for them when they made the game close. I thought it worked beautifully.

The flopping, I don't think it was some sort of payback or justice or all that stuff you talked about. I've seen too many times Manu making that charge especially when somebody is trying to back him down. That's just what Manu does. It's not like he doesn't do it often and suddenly he's doing it in this game. It's what Manu does all the time.

The one thing I kept an eye out is the pecking order. IMO it's Green, Kawhi, and then Neal now. Green doesn't play SF, and Kawhi locked himself as RJ's backup. Perhaps it's games when Kawhi's defense isn't needed (no opposing big good SFs) that Neal will get playing time over Kawhi.

[SinJackal]

Didn't say it was payback, I said they went to the flop because they weren't getting any calls. And imo, despite the hate for flopping, if a team only flops when the refs are officiating very biasedly in favor of the other team, I think it's perfectly justified. You have to make the refs blow the whistle if they have otherwise been choosing to swallow it when you get fouled in order to artificially help the other team get back into the game. Yes, it's conspiracy theoryish, but let's face it. . .we have the worst FTA/FGA ratio in the NBA, we're a small market team who's already won 4 times, and 3 times in 5 years with the current core. . .they don't want us to win and still be good. Look at all the NBA-approved media that has been bashing the Spurs and insisting that they're done, have zero chance, and need to rebuild for what, 6 years in a row now?

Anyway, back on topic, I have been rewatching the game just now, and my original perception of the last 14 minutes of the game was correct. The Pistons got almost every single call during their comeback and got almost none called against them despite obviously fouling the Spurs on several occaisions. The flopping began immediately after Wallace hacked Duncan across the arms then elbowed him in the face, and was rewarded with no whistle, while on the other end the refs called an extremely tickey tack foul call (which was basically the 4th one they got in the previous 5 minutes). Then Manu flopped a couple of times (both times were charges anyway even if he didn't flop, but with how the refs were calling the game so vastly in favor of the Pistons, you pretty much have to flop to get the calls your team has been getting screwed out of).

If you look in the play by play on the NBA.com boxscore, and take a look at the calls the Pistons got (excluding the Ginobili flops and hack a Wallace plays), it was 10-2 in favor of the Pistons, not including the non calls on the fouls they clearly commited but weren't called for. So if you include the fact that they were getting away with hacks, it was more like 15-2 in the Pistons' favor (exluding the hack a Ben and Manu flops). So yes, flopping to get calls I think is perfectly legitimate in that situation. The Pistons were riding the whistle through the entire closing 13 minutes of the game.

If Manu didn't flop and we didn't play Hack a Ben, we'd be talking about the loss right now, and I'd be bitching about the ridiculously lopsided calls even moreso than I already have just now.



About the pecking order, yeah it sort of pains me to se Neal at PG still. I can't wait 'til TJ Ford is back. I'm glad Neal practiced his ball handling in the offseason, and yes I realize he's the "emergency PG", but really. . .can you blame me for wanting to just sell a little piece of my soul to make TJ Ford healthy sooner than later? >_> (not literally, just making a joke)

It looks like RJ is still getting the bulk of the minutes, but that isn't very surprising. He's the best SF we have, and he's paid the most. I'm a little bit peeved at his lack of rebounding considering how tall he is, but his offense is pretty solid especially when he plays with Manu.


Speaking of Manu, despite his horrible 0-4, 1 point performance, his +/- was +17, with Bonner, Parker, and Duncan being the 2nd-4th best, at 6, 5, and 4 respectively. Even when he doesn't score he still affects the game with 7 assists, a block, and some key defensive plays. Always liked that about Manu.

Leonard and Green, our subjects of conversation, had the worst two at -7 and -9 respectively. I know +/- isn't everything, but our boys were on the floor when we gave up the lead. Can't really deny that.