GT: Lakers (27-34) vs. Spurs (36-26)

[Nolan]

When: Mar 3rd, 2018 7:00 PM MT
Where: AT&T Center, San Antonio

Lakers have been hot as of late so don't let their record fool you. We need to bring our A game and we need to bring it for 48 minutes, can't a repeat of that Pelicans game.

Team defense is going to be key in this one. No missed switches, no slow rotations and no getting blown by. The Lakers like to play fast and we have to be ready for that.

Go Spurs!!

[Nolan]

No Brandon Ingram for the Lakers tonight.

[ducler]

[Nolan]

Read on Twitter

[G R E Y]

Kawhi - even though 37 year old Pau has chosen to "fight through the pain" and play in tonight's game,
https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Despite-knee-pain-Spurs-Gasol-intends-to-fight-12725309.php
and even though 36 year old Tony has returned from surgery and rehab months ago and worked his way into a more optimal level by actually playing, and even though the Spurs are resorting to recalling our G-league and seldom used but also returning from injury players to help,

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

and even though Pop has stated that our players are "...getting low on fuel..."

Read on Twitter

and even though you've been medically cleared to play for about, what, six months now, and could choose to step on the court at literally any time to help our team because we really need it, by all means, do take your time

I love our team.

GO SPURS GO!

[G R E Y]

Another fourth quarter lead, another late game loss.

'Thanks' for all your 'help' watching the game, Kawhi. Totally awesome team player.

[G R E Y]

Pau, 37, who played with a knee brace and in pain and still got a double double, shared his views on tonight's game, stating that we are down a couple guys who we're used to giving the ball to late in games, one who's been out all season - that's you, Kawhi - and one who's been amazing for us all season - that's not you, Kawhi, that's LMA.

Read on Twitter

We win or lose based on our execution, so there's no excuses for the players who are there, even though they're exhausted from bearing the burden of an unwilling participant, but no longer are there any for the one who chooses not to be.

[Milenkovic]

We're in trouble

[Nolan]

Ugh just ugh. Another blown double digit lead in the 4th. We could not get a stop to save our lives in the 4th.

[Nolan]

Kawhi - even though 37 year old Pau has chosen to "fight through the pain" and play in tonight's game,
https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Despite-knee-pain-Spurs-Gasol-intends-to-fight-12725309.php
and even though 36 year old Tony has returned from surgery and rehab months ago and worked his way into a more optimal level by actually playing, and even though the Spurs are resorting to recalling our G-league and seldom used but also returning from injury players to help,

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

and even though Pop has stated that our players are "...getting low on fuel..."

Read on Twitter

and even though you've been medically cleared to play for about, what, six months now, and could choose to step on the court at literally any time to help our team because we really need it, by all means, do take your time

I love our team.

GO SPURS GO!

It's not fair to put any blame on Kawhi. Yes he's been medically cleared but that simply means he can't do more damage. Yes he could technically play through it but we don't know what kind of pain he's in and we all seen how off he was when he did try to play. Kawhi's a competitor, I have no doubts that he wants to be out there.

[imagump1313]

I know the Lakers aren't great, but what do they have in common with the teams that are beating us over and over this year?(GSW, Houston, Denver, OKC, Lakers...etc)
Athletic teams that can score a lot of points.

This team just cannot score consistently enough to keep up with teams built like that, especially with our top 2 scorers, not playing. And Grey hit it on the head mentioning Osborne's tweet:

Read on Twitter

We are simply not good enough defensively to slow athletic teams down to our scoring pace(which is 90-105 points).
If the opposition scores decently, we are toast. Just look at the most recent losses:
Utah 120 points
GSW 122 points
Denver 117
Denver 122
NO 121
Lakers 116

This is why I, as much as I love him I keep complaining because we are forced to rely on guys like Patty Mills putting up bad shots and turning the ball over. They are just not capable of scoring like that and when you ask them too you their weaknesses are glaring. Its not his fault, its just annoying.

We are now sitting as the 6th seed. Memphis is a must win next because we have the 3 team gauntlet of Houston, OKC and GSW on the road after that which could easily knock us down to the 8th seed or outside looking in.
We will know a lot in the next week. I'm afraid its going to get worse before it gets better.

[G R E Y]

Spoiler:

Kawhi - even though 37 year old Pau has chosen to "fight through the pain" and play in tonight's game,
https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Despite-knee-pain-Spurs-Gasol-intends-to-fight-12725309.php
and even though 36 year old Tony has returned from surgery and rehab months ago and worked his way into a more optimal level by actually playing, and even though the Spurs are resorting to recalling our G-league and seldom used but also returning from injury players to help,

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

and even though Pop has stated that our players are "...getting low on fuel..."

Read on Twitter

and even though you've been medically cleared to play for about, what, six months now, and could choose to step on the court at literally any time to help our team because we really need it, by all means, do take your time

I love our team.

GO SPURS GO!

It's not fair to put any blame on Kawhi. Yes he's been medically cleared but that simply means he can't do more damage. Yes he could technically play through it but we don't know what kind of pain he's in and we all seen how off he was when he did try to play. Kawhi's a competitor, I have no doubts that he wants to be out there.

Really? Not even a raised eyebrow's worth at this point? I understand your point about being medically cleared, and would agree with you had the medical clearance been 3 or 5 weeks ago, had it been rescinded or adjusted after two (that we know of) additional medical opinions Kawhi got after the Spurs medical staff gave their assessment, but the medical clearance remained, so I think he does bear responsibility at this juncture for several reasons. One, it stands to reason that after five months there is improvement over month one or two. We can base progress timeline, at least a guesstimate, on comparable injuries to other players, and on Kawhi having dealt with it before.

Two, Dr. Russell from imagump's link put his name and voice on record to say that there really is no reason at this point for Kawhi not to be on the court, and in four days (a long time in media) nobody has countered what he presented. Maybe different players react differently, ok, but Kawhi's been dealing with this since college, so he's an outlier for both the average of returning from this (is there an example of a player taking this long after being medically cleared? I don't think it's unreasonable to ask and compare because of how long this has taken) and from Kawhi's own previous maintenance. The doctor was laughing, incredulous, that this has been presented as some sort of medical mystery (and let's not forget that the Spurs medical staff was railroaded unfairly by unnamed sources along the way). It's not some freak injury, it's maintenance, so either Kawhi has a lowered pain threshold, or a sports psychologist would be more helpful now (his words). We are now in week TWENTY-ONE post medical clearance. His holding out is not good on or off the court. If I am among fans asking some questions, you'd think teammates closer to the situation are having some thoughts on it.

Three, I agree Kawhi wants to be back, but it's appears that it's only on his terms, and if that means only at 100% or only at pain-free, then frankly, that's not good enough when older guys are playing in pain to help the team. Kawhi looked like he didn't have the same lift and 'only' averaged 16PPG in his nine games, but defensively he was a clear difference maker. It's not unreasonable to look to him for results.

I know the Lakers aren't great, but what do they have in common with the teams that are beating us over and over this year?(GSW, Houston, Denver, OKC, Lakers...etc)
Athletic teams that can score a lot of points.

This team just cannot score consistently enough to keep up with teams built like that, especially with our top 2 scorers, not playing. And Grey hit it on the head mentioning Osborne's tweet:

Read on Twitter

We are simply not good enough defensively to slow athletic teams down to our scoring pace(which is 90-105 points).
If the opposition scores decently, we are toast. Just look at the most recent losses:
Utah 120 points
GSW 122 points
Denver 117
Denver 122
NO 121
Lakers 116

This is why I, as much as I love him I keep complaining because we are forced to rely on guys like Patty Mills putting up bad shots and turning the ball over. They are just not capable of scoring like that and when you ask them too you their weaknesses are glaring. Its not his fault, its just annoying.

We are now sitting as the 6th seed. Memphis is a must win next because we have the 3 team gauntlet of Houston, OKC and GSW on the road after that which could easily knock us down to the 8th seed or outside looking in.
We will know a lot in the next week. I'm afraid its going to get worse before it gets better.

Well scoring and defending is a function of having everybody on board. We are forced to go with players like Patty who are doing too much in multiple roles and getting exposed, (plus it doesn't help that we need to put out a milk carton photo to find Bryn's and Davis's missing shots), but the narrative was 'the Spurs are a 60ish-win team' going into the season. Somehow with our slide we're still first in defense (a stat that means little in the recent descent) which speaks to our doing things well but it looks like fatigue from the overload leading to a lack of confidence and nerves in close-out situations, and the go-to scoring by committee being mitigated by opponents. The thing about most of those games mentioned is that we had good leads in the fourth, so actually scoring in them wasn't so much the issue as being able to shift to the next gear. We need all our personnel to be able to do that, because we run out of gas just getting to that point without them.

Pop will never use it as an excuse, but you can hear players hinting wistfully at needing to have everybody back, not as an excuse, but just in restoring the balance in shouldering responsibility. If GSW were without Steph and Durant, if Cavs were without LeBron and whoever the other guy would be, if OKC were without Russ and PG, if Celtics were without Kyrie and choose another starter, with the conditions being 'clear best player out for most of the season' and starter/starters/main bench scorer out so frequently as to have 22 different starting line-ups and close to around 200? missed games from injury throughout the season, I'm sure their greatness, their rosters, their coaches, and their FOs would get called into question when really it's the players just being over-extended and fatigued.

What I took from Pop's quote in Orsbron's tweet is his highlighting of the outlier: we are getting a little low on fuel. The players and coach are pointing to it now. We're just after a long AS break and many days off in between games after it, so it's not about lack of rest, it's doing more to make up for missing players. We are reeling and we have the help we need. Sitting. And the biggest difference maker choosing to sit the longest. That's the most frustrating part.

[imagump1313]

Really? Like not even a raised eyebrow's worth at this point? I understand your point about being medically cleared, and would agree with you had the medical clearance been 3 or 5 weeks ago, had it been rescinded or adjusted after two (that we know of) additional medical opinions Kawhi got after the Spurs medical staff gave their assessment, but the medical clearance remained, so I think he does bear responsibility at this juncture for several reasons. One, it stands to reason that after five months there is improvement over month one or two. We can base progress timeline, at least a guesstimate, on comparable injuries to other players, and based on Kawhi having dealt with it before.

Two, Dr. Russell from imagump's link put his name and voice on record to say that there really is no reason at this point for Kawhi not to be on the court. Maybe different players react differently, ok, but Kawhi's been dealing with this since college, so he's an outlier for both the average of returning from this (is there an example of a player taking this long after being medically cleared? I don't think it's unreasonable to ask and compare because of how long this has taken) and from Kawhi's own previous maintenance. The doctor was laughing, incredulous, that this has been presented as some sort of medical mystery (and let's not forget that the Spurs medical staff was railroaded unfairly by unnamed sources along the way). It's not some freak injury, it's maintenance, so either Kawhi has a lowered pain threshold, or a sports psychologist would be more helpful now (his words). We are now in week TWENTY-ONE post medical clearance. His holding out is not good on or of the court. If I am among some fans asking some questions, you'd think teammates closer to the situation are having some thoughts on it.

Three, I agree Kawhi wants to be back, but it's appears that it's only on his terms, and if that means only at 100% or only at pain-free, then frankly, that's not good enough when older guys are playing in pain to help the team. Kawhi looked like he didn't have lift and 'only' averaged 16PPG in his nine games, but defensively he was a difference maker. It's not unreasonable to look to him for results.

I agree the frustration level with Kawhi is getting higher but I'm going to let the team and him figure that out. We aren't winning any championships this year regardless if he plays or not.
I was far past this frustration level with LMA last year and that was fixed and then some.

Well scoring and defending is a function of having everybody on board. We are forced to go with players like Patty who are doing too much in multiple roles and getting exposed, (plus it doesn't help that we need to put out a milk carton photo to find Bryn's and Davis's missing shots), but the narrative was 'the Spurs are a 60ish-win team' going into the season, and the go-to scoring by committee is also being mitigated by opponents. Somehow with our slide we're still first in defense (a stat that means little in the recent descent) which speaks to our doing things well but it looks like fatigue from the overload leading to a lack of confidence and nerves in close-out situations. The thing about most of those games mentioned is that we had good leads in the fourth, so actually scoring in them wasn't so much the issue as being able to shift to the next gear. We need all our personnel to be able to do that, because we run out of gas just getting to that point without them.

Pop will never use it as an excuse, but you can hear players hinting wistfully at needing to have everybody back, not as an excuse, but just in restoring the balance in shouldering responsibility. If GSW were without Steph and Durant, if Cavs were without LeBron and whoever the other guy would be, if OKC were without Russ and PG, if Celtics were without Kyrie and choose another starter, with the conditions being 'clear best player out for most of the season' and starter/starters/main bench scorer out so frequently as to have 22 different starting line-ups and close to around 200? missed games from injury throughout the season, I'm sure their greatness, their rosters, their coaches, and their FOs would get called into question when really the players are just over-extended and fatigued.

What I took from Pop's quote in Orsbron's tweet is his highlighting of the outlier: we are getting a little low on fuel. The players and coach are pointing to it now. We're just after a long AS break and many days off in between games after it, so it's not about lack of rest, it's doing more to make up for missing players. We are reeling and we have the help we need. Sitting. And the biggest difference maker choosing to sit the longest. That's the most frustrating part.

This is what I keep saying about Forbes. This is his MO. Plays great for small stretches and disappears for long stretches with no explanation.
Bertans is an aggressiveness thing. He has yet to figure out how to bring intensity every night. Forbes always plays hard and is aggressive, he just cant score out of a paper bag 80% of the time.
I have faith Bertans will figure it out eventually, Forbes just is what he is. In both cases though, we are forced deal with their weaknesses because of all the injuries.

As far as getting low on fuel, I agree with that but its not from fatigue. Its because we get overwhelmed defensively by having to rely on getting stops on almost every possession because we cant keep up offensively. And in today's NBA that is next to impossible. There is no way we can hold teams to 80-90 points and get by like we have in the past. The game is different and officiated different. And like you said, take the top guy off any team in this league for the entire season and see where they are.

[G R E Y]

I'm really starting to see your point about Bryn. The main thing he seems to be consistent about on O is shooting inconsistency (though he's made a concerted effort to vary his shots and broaden his arsenal, it's just hitting them), but I guess that's the challenge for a lot of young guys adjusting to the NBA game. Bertans has had a bad February in terms of shooting, but somehow I have a bit more confidence in his shot. Maybe it's because he comes across like he does, too. I like Bryn because you can see he wants to do well, but seems like he's overthinking things on the court and it's just getting in the way.

I think Kawhi's stance is a real eye opener for Pop and the Spurs brass, so we'll see how things develop. There are important differences between his and LMA's situations, so it's a matter of how to go forward knowing what they know. Kawhi's a great talent, one that the Spurs traded for and nurtured, but now there are other considerations to weigh in the whole picture. I have to say that the Pop-LeBron bromance has me coming around to your what-ifs of his playing here.

As to the fatigue, I just meant that we do not have all the bodies to spread the responsibility, so not only are our guys doing more, they are doing it beyond their roles on both ends. Ironically, in the last few games we've scored well above our average, too, but we definitely need to make stops and shots and protect the ball in key late-game situations, and we use so much energy getting to this point we sort of mentally blink without key guys; it's just having everybody, especially one of the best defenders in the game as a central presence, makes a huge difference. We're 22nd on D in the last ten games; the carousel of players, and without the central cogs, is taking a toll. We need everybody back, even if at this late point it may be harder to gel. We need to give ourselves a fighting chance to do our best with some confidence going forward.

[imagump1313]

I'm really starting to see your point about Bryn. The main thing he seems to be consistent about on O is shooting inconsistency (though he's made a concerted effort to vary his shots and broaden his arsenal, it's just hitting them), but I guess that's the challenge for a lot of young guys adjusting to the NBA game. Bertans has had a bad February in terms of shooting, but somehow I have a bit more confidence in his shot. Maybe it's because he comes across like he does, too. I like Bryn because you can see he wants to do well, but seems like he's overthinking things on the court and it's just getting in the way.

I think Kawhi's stance is a real eye opener for Pop and the Spurs brass, so we'll see how things develop. There are important differences between his and LMA's situations, so it's a matter of how to go forward knowing what they know. Kawhi's a great talent, one that the Spurs traded for and nurtured, but now there are other considerations to weigh in the whole picture. I have to say that the Pop-LeBron bromance has me coming around to your what-ifs of his playing here.

As to the fatigue, I just meant that we do not have all the bodies to spread the responsibility, so not only are our guys doing more, they are doing it beyond their roles on both ends. Ironically, in the last few games we've scored well above our average, too, but we definitely need to make stops and shots and protect the ball in key late-game situations, and we use so much energy getting to this point we sort of mentally blink without key guys; it's just having everybody, especially one of the best defenders in the game as a central presence, makes a huge difference. We're 22nd on D in the last ten games; the carousel of players, and without the central cogs, is taking a toll. We need everybody back, even if at this late point it may be harder to gel. We need to give ourselves a fighting chance to do our best with some confidence going forward.

I saw Forbes up close a lot in college since I live here. He did the same thing his entire college career. He has talent, he just can't seem get it together mentally to be consistent. I like him, I hope he figures it out but Ive been watching the same thing for years with him.

I really hope the Lebron thing doesn't happen here, but it all seems too convenient lately. I guess it would depend upon Kawhi because I really cant see the two of them sharing the court unless Kawhi wants to go back to his earlier days here of moving without the ball. Or maybe if Lebron wants to become 2nd or 3rd option and really, does anything think his ego could handle that? Also, Lebron would have to come off his stance of being paid more than God. I cant see the Spurs bringing him here unless he gave them some sort of discount.

The 22nd in the last 10 games defensively has more to do with who we have been playing lately IMO. We should look fine against Memphis next, then it will get ugly again.

I can honestly see us falling out of the playoffs because of our schedule and trying to fight back in if we get healthy. At that point I really don't know. We can get a decent draft pick next year and have decent cap room to make a run next year. Or, get smoked by either Houston or Golden State in the first round. I think I would choose the first option.

[G R E Y]

I'm really starting to see your point about Bryn. The main thing he seems to be consistent about on O is shooting inconsistency (though he's made a concerted effort to vary his shots and broaden his arsenal, it's just hitting them), but I guess that's the challenge for a lot of young guys adjusting to the NBA game. Bertans has had a bad February in terms of shooting, but somehow I have a bit more confidence in his shot. Maybe it's because he comes across like he does, too. I like Bryn because you can see he wants to do well, but seems like he's overthinking things on the court and it's just getting in the way.

I think Kawhi's stance is a real eye opener for Pop and the Spurs brass, so we'll see how things develop. There are important differences between his and LMA's situations, so it's a matter of how to go forward knowing what they know. Kawhi's a great talent, one that the Spurs traded for and nurtured, but now there are other considerations to weigh in the whole picture. I have to say that the Pop-LeBron bromance has me coming around to your what-ifs of his playing here.

As to the fatigue, I just meant that we do not have all the bodies to spread the responsibility, so not only are our guys doing more, they are doing it beyond their roles on both ends. Ironically, in the last few games we've scored well above our average, too, but we definitely need to make stops and shots and protect the ball in key late-game situations, and we use so much energy getting to this point we sort of mentally blink without key guys; it's just having everybody, especially one of the best defenders in the game as a central presence, makes a huge difference. We're 22nd on D in the last ten games; the carousel of players, and without the central cogs, is taking a toll. We need everybody back, even if at this late point it may be harder to gel. We need to give ourselves a fighting chance to do our best with some confidence going forward.

I saw Forbes up close a lot in college since I live here. He did the same thing his entire college career. He has talent, he just can't seem get it together mentally to be consistent. I like him, I hope he figures it out but Ive been watching the same thing for years with him.

I really hope the Lebron thing doesn't happen here, but it all seems too convenient lately. I guess it would depend upon Kawhi because I really cant see the two of them sharing the court unless Kawhi wants to go back to his earlier days here of moving without the ball. Or maybe if Lebron wants to become 2nd or 3rd option and really, does anything think his ego could handle that? Also, Lebron would have to come off his stance of being paid more than God. I cant see the Spurs bringing him here unless he gave them some sort of discount.

The 22nd in the last 10 games defensively has more to do with who we have been playing lately IMO. We should look fine against Memphis next, then it will get ugly again.

I can honestly see us falling out of the playoffs because of our schedule and trying to fight back in if we get healthy. At that point I really don't know. We can get a decent draft pick next year and have decent cap room to make a run next year. Or, get smoked by either Houston or Golden State in the first round. I think I would choose the first option.

I think/hope if Bryn gets a set role and grows gradually he can develop more consistency. It's an ephemeral thing, how some players really blossom and others can't seem to put it together. Spurs saw something in him, and though it's not flawless, you hope they'll be proven right, for his sake and ours.

As for our D record of late, well, we've developed our first place by playing all these teams already, it's just full teams are clicking. The Jazz had a terrible record and were without key players. They got the players back, and off they went. That's in addition to, not a counter, to your point. There are many factors in play for the D results we're getting. Anyway, the Jazz situation has me living in hope...

Yeah the LeBron comment is just unfiltered ideal musings, but like you said, there are a lot of practical factors on both sides in order for it to reach a probable stage. We're not gutting a team for one player, and LBJ has yet to show that he would give the necessary discount to make it work. But with no sales tax, if I understand the Texas situation for players correctly, would a longer term for slightly less per year be enticing enough? As for making it work with Kawhi, well, there's something to be said for transitioning to another phase of one's career. For the sake of longevity and still being able to compete for championships, a complementary or at least an alternating lead role may be appealing. Plus playing for Pop, easily the best coach he'll have had, has to be a consideration. If any coach can figure how to make it work, it's GOAT Pop. Of course there are the rumours being floated about the Lakers maybe sweeping up Kawhi and LeBron with their two (potentially) max contracts. They're not worried about how to make it work. If you have the opportunity, you do your best to figure it out. Wouldn't it be funny, though, the two of them getting lured to the Lakeshow? Hahaha... haha... ha... uuugh... it would be a gut punch, plain and simple.

I'm more about collaboration and team than winning at all costs, so it's more of a motivation to play well, the right way, and together as a way of reaching the top rather than Zazaing / Laimbeering your way to a championship. So it's really hard for me to accept just giving up on making a push this season for strategy, for a chance at a higher pick since the likelihood of beating GSW isn't great (although it was a lot higher at the beginning of the year) because for one, you always do your best, and two, we would be waving a white flag on what may be Manu's final year (I do think he returns to complete his contract, unfinished business), and waste great years of players who are running out of time - Pau, Tony, and to a lesser extent, LMA. Should Kawhi return March 8 - do it, man! Just get out there - and we get some momentum from the much needed energy and manpower boost, I hope we play it out the best we can. But even if not, then it's guys playing for and with each other in difficult circumstances. After all they've endured, it would be a waste to just let the season slip away. I just don't think it's yet time for 'playing for next year'.

[Nolan]

Spoiler:

Kawhi - even though 37 year old Pau has chosen to "fight through the pain" and play in tonight's game,
https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Despite-knee-pain-Spurs-Gasol-intends-to-fight-12725309.php
and even though 36 year old Tony has returned from surgery and rehab months ago and worked his way into a more optimal level by actually playing, and even though the Spurs are resorting to recalling our G-league and seldom used but also returning from injury players to help,

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

and even though Pop has stated that our players are "...getting low on fuel..."

Read on Twitter

and even though you've been medically cleared to play for about, what, six months now, and could choose to step on the court at literally any time to help our team because we really need it, by all means, do take your time

I love our team.

GO SPURS GO!

It's not fair to put any blame on Kawhi. Yes he's been medically cleared but that simply means he can't do more damage. Yes he could technically play through it but we don't know what kind of pain he's in and we all seen how off he was when he did try to play. Kawhi's a competitor, I have no doubts that he wants to be out there.

Really? Not even a raised eyebrow's worth at this point? I understand your point about being medically cleared, and would agree with you had the medical clearance been 3 or 5 weeks ago, had it been rescinded or adjusted after two (that we know of) additional medical opinions Kawhi got after the Spurs medical staff gave their assessment, but the medical clearance remained, so I think he does bear responsibility at this juncture for several reasons. One, it stands to reason that after five months there is improvement over month one or two. We can base progress timeline, at least a guesstimate, on comparable injuries to other players, and on Kawhi having dealt with it before.

Two, Dr. Russell from imagump's link put his name and voice on record to say that there really is no reason at this point for Kawhi not to be on the court, and in four days (a long time in media) nobody has countered what he presented. Maybe different players react differently, ok, but Kawhi's been dealing with this since college, so he's an outlier for both the average of returning from this (is there an example of a player taking this long after being medically cleared? I don't think it's unreasonable to ask and compare because of how long this has taken) and from Kawhi's own previous maintenance. The doctor was laughing, incredulous, that this has been presented as some sort of medical mystery (and let's not forget that the Spurs medical staff was railroaded unfairly by unnamed sources along the way). It's not some freak injury, it's maintenance, so either Kawhi has a lowered pain threshold, or a sports psychologist would be more helpful now (his words). We are now in week TWENTY-ONE post medical clearance. His holding out is not good on or off the court. If I am among fans asking some questions, you'd think teammates closer to the situation are having some thoughts on it.

Three, I agree Kawhi wants to be back, but it's appears that it's only on his terms, and if that means only at 100% or only at pain-free, then frankly, that's not good enough when older guys are playing in pain to help the team. Kawhi looked like he didn't have the same lift and 'only' averaged 16PPG in his nine games, but defensively he was a clear difference maker. It's not unreasonable to look to him for results.

Super delayed response but I've been swamped lately.

You have to realize this isn't the type of injury that has a linear recovery. There's no real time line like there is for a tear or a sprain the pain can stay the same for months at time (which apparently it has), it's incredibly tough to judge.

Lets not forget that he's tried to play through this earlier in the season and he did not look even close to right. I'm sure he could play through this but its in his best interest and the teams to hold off until he can actually move somewhat normally laterally and until he has some confidence in that leg. He could hurt himself even more at this point,

I've been in a similar situation where a rushed back too soon from an ankle injury and ended up hurting my knee on my other leg because I was trying as hard as possible not to re-injure that ankle and to this day that knee still bothers me and the ankles never been a problem since.

This is frustrating situation for everyone, Kawhi, the team and the fans. But in the end we have to believe in Kawhi and trust the front office. Kawhi's a competitor, one of the hardest workers this franchise has ever seen and to doubt him is simply foolish. He wants to be back on the court.

[G R E Y]

Spoiler:

It's not fair to put any blame on Kawhi. Yes he's been medically cleared but that simply means he can't do more damage. Yes he could technically play through it but we don't know what kind of pain he's in and we all seen how off he was when he did try to play. Kawhi's a competitor, I have no doubts that he wants to be out there.

Really? Not even a raised eyebrow's worth at this point? I understand your point about being medically cleared, and would agree with you had the medical clearance been 3 or 5 weeks ago, had it been rescinded or adjusted after two (that we know of) additional medical opinions Kawhi got after the Spurs medical staff gave their assessment, but the medical clearance remained, so I think he does bear responsibility at this juncture for several reasons. One, it stands to reason that after five months there is improvement over month one or two. We can base progress timeline, at least a guesstimate, on comparable injuries to other players, and on Kawhi having dealt with it before.

Two, Dr. Russell from imagump's link put his name and voice on record to say that there really is no reason at this point for Kawhi not to be on the court, and in four days (a long time in media) nobody has countered what he presented. Maybe different players react differently, ok, but Kawhi's been dealing with this since college, so he's an outlier for both the average of returning from this (is there an example of a player taking this long after being medically cleared? I don't think it's unreasonable to ask and compare because of how long this has taken) and from Kawhi's own previous maintenance. The doctor was laughing, incredulous, that this has been presented as some sort of medical mystery (and let's not forget that the Spurs medical staff was railroaded unfairly by unnamed sources along the way). It's not some freak injury, it's maintenance, so either Kawhi has a lowered pain threshold, or a sports psychologist would be more helpful now (his words). We are now in week TWENTY-ONE post medical clearance. His holding out is not good on or off the court. If I am among fans asking some questions, you'd think teammates closer to the situation are having some thoughts on it.

Three, I agree Kawhi wants to be back, but it's appears that it's only on his terms, and if that means only at 100% or only at pain-free, then frankly, that's not good enough when older guys are playing in pain to help the team. Kawhi looked like he didn't have the same lift and 'only' averaged 16PPG in his nine games, but defensively he was a clear difference maker. It's not unreasonable to look to him for results.

Super delayed response but I've been swamped lately.

You have to realize this isn't the type of injury that has a linear recovery. There's no real time line like there is for a tear or a sprain the pain can stay the same for months at time (which apparently it has), it's incredibly tough to judge.

Lets not forget that he's tried to play through this earlier in the season and he did not look even close to right. I'm sure he could play through this but its in his best interest and the teams to hold off until he can actually move somewhat normally laterally and until he has some confidence in that leg. He could hurt himself even more at this point,

I've been in a similar situation where a rushed back too soon from an ankle injury and ended up hurting my knee on my other leg because I was trying as hard as possible not to re-injure that ankle and to this day that knee still bothers me and the ankles never been a problem since.

This is frustrating situation for everyone, Kawhi, the team and the fans. But in the end we have to believe in Kawhi and trust the front office. Kawhi's a competitor, one of the hardest workers this franchise has ever seen and to doubt him is simply foolish. He wants to be back on the court.

No worries, we've all got off board lives. And I can relate to nagging ankle injuries with residual effects (ligament to Achilles, though most of the time it's out of mind now).

I think your comments about this being a non-linear recovery are food for thought, although the length of Kawhi's recovery to experts in the field are, too. I do believe that Kawhi wants to be out there, no question about his competitiveness and desire to play, but at this point from FO to doctors seem to be alluding to his trying at less than 100% and playing his way up to it, whereas Kawhi just wants to be pain-free before he gets back out there. From all accounts he can't re-injure it, so it sounds like it's an issue of pain management or tolerance/confidence in how it'll hold up. It was great to hear Kawhi explain today that he's progressing and happy where he's at, I just wish we could've been having this progress report at least a month ago. If only wishing could make it so...

[Nolan]

I think your comments about this being a non-linear recovery are food for thought, although the length of Kawhi's recovery to experts in the field are, too. I do believe that Kawhi wants to be out there, no question about his competitiveness and desire to play, but at this point from FO to doctors seem to be alluding to his trying at less than 100% and playing his way up to it, whereas Kawhi just wants to be pain-free before he gets back out there. From all accounts he can't re-injure it, so it sounds like it's an issue of pain management or tolerance/confidence in how it'll hold up. It was great to hear Kawhi explain today that he's progressing and happy where he's at, I just wish we could've been having this progress report at least a month ago. If only wishing could make it so...

Yes he can't re-injure it. But like I alluded too if he isn't confident in he could end up hurting himself more seriously. What if he comes back, doesn't feel comfortable favors that leg then blows out his left MCL? It's not a far fetched scenario, it's happened before and it'll happen again and I'd hate to see it happen to him.

[G R E Y]

I think your comments about this being a non-linear recovery are food for thought, although the length of Kawhi's recovery to experts in the field are, too. I do believe that Kawhi wants to be out there, no question about his competitiveness and desire to play, but at this point from FO to doctors seem to be alluding to his trying at less than 100% and playing his way up to it, whereas Kawhi just wants to be pain-free before he gets back out there. From all accounts he can't re-injure it, so it sounds like it's an issue of pain management or tolerance/confidence in how it'll hold up. It was great to hear Kawhi explain today that he's progressing and happy where he's at, I just wish we could've been having this progress report at least a month ago. If only wishing could make it so...

Yes he can't re-injure it. But like I alluded too if he isn't confident in he could end up hurting himself more seriously. What if he comes back, doesn't feel comfortable favors that leg then blows out his left MCL? It's not a far fetched scenario, it's happened before and it'll happen again and I'd hate to see it happen to him.

I can only go by what I've heard medical experts say about it. Not saying that that scenario can't ever happen, but what-if's can spiral quickly and make an unlikely scenario something to worry about perhaps more than it should; we can't use the worst case what-if as the barometer for the likeliest outcome. By all means, he should play with confidence, not favouring a side, but there's something to be said about the mental side of things too (an important element of recovery, alluded to by the doctor in the interview), and about trusting that some pain is part of the progress. "Soon," Kawhi said of his return. I chuckled at that, not in a snickering way, but well, we've come this far, all we've got left is soon. If he's talking about it, facing pointed questions, sounds like his confidence mentally and physically is in a good place.