Time to blow it up

Rondo2Hondo · Post #1 » by **Rondo2Hondo** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:25 am

This is really premature..... but the Spurs look old out there. Timmy is no longer a go to guy, Ginobili is good, but is not enough to carry the team alone.

What ideas do you have for moving on after Duncan/ Ginobili/ Parker? The Spurs FO could acquire a lot of draft picks and young players for these 3 guys.

I know all of you will say Duncan will retire a Spur, and I believe that too, but what do you think you could get for him? What do you think you could get for Parker and Ginobili?

Post #2 » by **Nolan** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:29 pm

Your right this is really really premature. We just won 60 games, we're not even going to contemplate blowing it up right now. Yes we're struggling with the Grizzlies right now but this is still a very good team. At the worst we're going to have to make a few tweaks to the roster in the offseason.

Rondo2Hondo · Post #3 » by **Rondo2Hondo** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:35 pm

And if the Grizzlies win the series? Will the team still make minor tweaks? The Spurs are potentially 2 games away from having to ask themselves a lot of questions.

They desperately need an all-star caliber player on this team

crimsonkb24 · Post #4 » by **crimsonkb24** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm

the grizzlies owned them also in the reg. season, they just dont match up well. i hope the spurs turn it around and win this series

GO GRIZZ · Post #5 » by **GO GRIZZ** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:37 pm

I don't think blowing up your team is the option. I think adding younger talent is. You add your younger talent and mix them with veterans, they will be ready to play when the veterans are ready to retire. Right now, the Grizzlies are playing some of there best basketball even without Rudy Gay. There are two teams of the future right now. You are playing one of them now and the other one is on the brink of sweeping the Nuggets. The Thunder's problem comes down to being big enough in the post as well. Get younger talent to play with Duncan for the next two years and you guys should still be good to go. Good luck in game five as I am hoping the Grizz keep home court advantage.

Eshai · Post #6 » by **Eshai** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:59 am

Talking about blowing it up now is very premature when you're only down 1 game against an 8th seed.

If you lose though, your best bet is to get Tim to opt out of that $21 mil he is owed next year, and instead re-sign him to like a 3-4 yr, $21 mil deal. That way, you clear a ton of space to actually add the young pieces you need to win. But then can still keep Duncan and use him in the David Robinson type role of 2003.

Parker is still young and if you can clear space to sign one of the great young bigs this off-season in FA, where they are aplenty this year, you can play Duncan as the 2nd option inside, which he probably should be at this age.

It'll be tough for Tim to give up $21 mil next year, but if he doesnt, I see no way of him truly contending until that contract runs out. You dont have enough size up front. Thats why Memphis is such a bad matchup.

And try to move Ginobli's contract too. He's taking up too much soace for somebody that'll soon be 37.

Rondo2Hondo · Post #7 » by **Rondo2Hondo** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:48 am

Looks like it's going to be 3-1 to the Grizz.

This may be a reality, having to blow the team up. I'm sure they could bring back a lot of assets for their big 3.

Ming Kong! · Post #8 » by **Ming Kong!** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:53 am

Eshai wrote:Talking about blowing it up now is very premature when you're only down 1 game against an 8th seed.

If you lose though, your best bet is to get Tim to opt out of that $21 mil he is owed next year, and instead re-sign him to like a 3-4 yr, $21 mil deal. That way, you clear a ton of space to actually add the young pieces you need to win. But then can still keep Duncan and use him in the David Robinson type role of 2003.

Parker is still young and if you can clear space to sign one of the great young bigs this off-season in FA, where they are aplenty this year, you can play Duncan as the 2nd option inside, which he probably should be at this age.

It'll be tough for Tim to give up $21 mil next year, but if he doesnt, I see no way of him truly contending until that contract runs out. You dont have enough size up front. Thats why Memphis is such a bad matchup.

And try to move Ginobli's contract too. He's taking up too much soace for somebody that'll soon be 37.

Better yet, pay him in Trident Layers! The Spurs just signed Jefferson to a ridiculous contract, I'm sure Duncan could work himself a pretty sweet deal still, just on size and experience.

Post #9 » by **Nolan** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:08 am

Rondo2Hondo wrote:Looks like it's going to be 3-1 to the Grizz.

This may be a reality, having to blow the team up. I'm sure they could bring back a lot of assets for their big 3.

No its not a reality. You don't just blow up a team that's won 4 championships because of one bad series. The Grizzlies are killing us inside if we lose this series it means we're going to need to add some size.

Rondo2Hondo · Post #10 » by **Rondo2Hondo** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:28 am

Vasquez, Mayo and Conley did a lot of damage today.

I can't believe how little Splitter and Blair have played during this series and I really don't know who the Spurs could get this off-season to address all their needs

CroCop · Post #11 » by **CroCop** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:41 am

Nolan wrote:
Rondo2Hondo wrote:Looks like it's going to be 3-1 to the Grizz.

This may be a reality, having to blow the team up. I'm sure they could bring back a lot of assets for their big 3.

No its not a reality. You don't just blow up a team that's won 4 championships because of one bad series. The Grizzlies are killing us inside if we lose this series it means we're going to need to add some size.

This isn't the same team that won 4 championships. In fact, there was never one Spurs team that won 4 of them, only a player that was there for all of them, and he's done now. I don't mean any disrespect with this post, as you have one of the most respectable franchises in the league, but it's definately time to face reality.

Sure you won 60 games, but you're about to lose a series to an 8 seed who doesn't even have their best player. If you can't handle them, then there's no way you're gonna win another title with this team. Everybody knows mediocrity is the worst place to be in the NBA, so I think its time you blow it up.

Obviously keep Duncan, out of pure respect. He retires a Spur. But I say milk a team of all the picks and young talent they're willing to give for TP, Manu, or RJ. Go after the teams that are stupid and will make a desperate move in an attempt to try and keep their disgruntled superstar whose halfway out the door happy. Hopefully those picks will prove to be valuable if the superstar bolts.

Yeah, it might suck for Duncan's last couple of years not being a contender anymore, but a franchise has got to look out for themselves and the fans. Get what you can for your starters while they still have value. Its not like San Antonio is a hot free agent spot, so youre gonna have to get lucky in the draft again. Better to start sooner than later IMO.

Rondo2Hondo · Post #12 » by **Rondo2Hondo** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:21 am

1. Trade Tony Parker
-The TWolves have expressed interest in veteran point guards, and I'm sure if the Spurs offered them Parker for a package of the rights to Ricky Rubio, Wesley Johnson and Nikoli Pekovic that the Wolves would accept it. The Wolves get a fast-paced point guard to run their fast break. Kevin Love's outlet passes get the ball quickly up the floor, imagine Tony Parker being the receiver of them! Love and Parker will excel in the pick and pop game as well.

2. Trade Manu Ginobili
OPTION A - To the Pacers for Paul George, James Posey (expirer) and contract filler.
OPTION B - To the Nets for a trade exception, Damion James and a future 1st round pick.
Both of these deals improves the Spurs athleticism on the wing, while also addressing their salary cap problems.

3. Trade Richard Jefferson
-To the Clippers for Ryan Gomes. Gomes has one less year on his contract, comes at half the price and is 2 years younger. Richard Jefferson addresses a major need for the Clippers, a multi-faceted veteran at small forward.

4. Buyout Antonio McDyess
-Let him retire or go to a team that will be able to contend. He deserves to play for a good team.

5. Renegotiate the terms of Tim Duncan's contract

The leaves the Spurs with:
CT: T. Duncan/ T. Splitter/ N. Pekovic
PF: D. Blair/ M. Bonner
SF: W. Johnson/ R. Gomes/ J. Posey (expirer)
SG: P. George/ G. Neal/ J. Anderson
PG: R. Rubio/ G. Hill

davidse · Post #13 » by **davidse** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:11 pm

you're going to have to use manu to dump jefferson.

don't kid yourselves that there' any other way you dump that contract.

and if that's the package you're trying to dump for cap space, your only option may be orlando - who will be desperate enough to take a ton of salary for increased production.

a resigned jason richardson - with only his 1st year guarenteed (at a huge 15 mil or so) + earl clark is about all you're going to get, but again - if moving jefferson and opting for cap space is your path of choice - that's what you'll need to accept.

the alternative is to just hold on to jefferson, and obviously duncan, and simply focus on moving manu and parker for the best young assets and picks possible, with the thinking being that you'd still be in good cap position a year from now when duncan retires, and then basicaly every year that goes by - moving jefferson may also become easier or "cheaper", so might as well focus on getting the best assets for manu and parker.

i think that perhaps surveying the pottential 2012 free agent market may help chose the right strategy here, and regardless, you have to keep in mind that there will be a heavy price shoud you opt for trying to get rid of jefferson's deal.

one deal i would look at if i were the spurs that is a step in the right direction, even though it doesn't solve the problems immediatly, would be jefferson+splitter for rip hamilton.
that shaves 2 years off of your rebuilding time, and still gives you an effective player (or even pottential trade bait to contenders at the deadline), and you'll be able to use him since if you make that deal, that means that manu is going out by himself - to get maximum value, leaving a gap at sg.

just my 2 c's...

GameChannel · Post #14 » by **GameChannel** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:51 pm

Trade Manu and RJ to clippers for Kaman, Gomes and Bledsoe

Trade TP to Minny for Rights to Rubio, Randolph and Wesley Johnson

Rubio / Bledsoe
Hill / Anderson / Neal
Johnson / Gomes
TD / Splitter / Randolph
Kaman / Blair / Bonner

UDRIH14 · Post #15 » by **UDRIH14** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:53 am

the only player worth keeping are splitter, anderson, neal

the rest are all tradeable...or for ****...

what i like to see his RJ and bonner traded first b4 we go down the pecking order

problem is u guys are trading for younger players, and pop doesnt like young players unless his force to play them....

Post #16 » by **Nolan** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:21 am

CroCop wrote:This isn't the same team that won 4 championships. In fact, there was never one Spurs team that won 4 of them, only a player that was there for all of them, and he's done now. I don't mean any disrespect with this post, as you have one of the most respectable franchises in the league, but it's definately time to face reality.

Sure you won 60 games, but you're about to lose a series to an 8 seed who doesn't even have their best player. If you can't handle them, then there's no way you're gonna win another title with this team. Everybody knows mediocrity is the worst place to be in the NBA, so I think its time you blow it up.

Obviously keep Duncan, out of pure respect. He retires a Spur. But I say milk a team of all the picks and young talent they're willing to give for TP, Manu, or RJ. Go after the teams that are stupid and will make a desperate move in an attempt to try and keep their disgruntled superstar whose halfway out the door happy. Hopefully those picks will prove to be valuable if the superstar bolts.

Yeah, it might suck for Duncan's last couple of years not being a contender anymore, but a franchise has got to look out for themselves and the fans. Get what you can for your starters while they still have value. Its not like San Antonio is a hot free agent spot, so youre gonna have to get lucky in the draft again. Better to start sooner than later IMO.

We can win another chip with this core group. If we end up losing this series we'll need to make some changes with our role players. RJ and Bonner need to go and we need to pick up a could wing defender and a true center. Samuel Dalembert is a guy i'd love to see in a Spurs uni, he's the long defensive minded big that we need next to Duncan.

People need to stop hitting the panic button. This is still a really good team and will continue to be one. Our franchise has been so sucessful through the years because we never went out and blew up our teams, we retooled and stayed patient. If we would of dealt Robinson and Elliot when things turned crappy this team wouldn't of won those 4 chips. Pops and the front office know what they're doing and how to build a contender.

Rondo2Hondo · Post #17 » by **Rondo2Hondo** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:16 pm

Did you just compare Ginobili and Parker to Robinson? Insane.

Post #18 » by **Nolan** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:30 pm

Rondo2Hondo wrote:Did you just compare Ginobili and Parker to Robinson? Insane.

I wasn't comparing players I was comparing situations.

batmana · Post #19 » by **batmana** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:54 pm

I've just had it with people who advertise Rubio as if he is a superstar. In reality, I believe he will be a monumental bust in the NBA. If we were to trade Tony, George Hill or even Chris Quinn for Rubio I'd probably stop watching Spurs games until I'm sure Rubio gets no more playing time. The guy is so bad offensively he can't score from anywhere, his physical tools are overrated and I know you barely get a chance to watch his team Barcelona in the States but he is basically their worst PG and always sits on the bench late in games while players you've probably never heard of like Victor Sada and Jaka Lakovic finish the games because THEY'RE ACTUALLY BETTER.

I guess this is probably at least a bit off-topic but if I hear Rubio's name once again I'm gonna implode.

RojanRando · Post #20 » by **RojanRando** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:06 pm

batmana wrote:I've just had it with people who advertise Rubio as if he is a superstar. In reality, I believe he will be a monumental bust in the NBA. If we were to trade Tony, George Hill or even Chris Quinn for Rubio I'd probably stop watching Spurs games until I'm sure Rubio gets no more playing time. The guy is so bad offensively he can't score from anywhere, his physical tools are overrated and I know you barely get a chance to watch his team Barcelona in the States but he is basically their worst PG and always sits on the bench late in games while players you've probably never heard of like Victor Sada and Jaka Lakovic finish the games because THEY'RE ACTUALLY BETTER.

I guess this is probably at least a bit off-topic but if I hear Rubio's name once again I'm gonna implode.

You also know nothing about the differences between International ball and NBA ball. NBA ball is geared for PGs to be successful, that's why rules like handchecking no longer exist. Rubio won't be a superstar, but he is going to be a solid player, possible all star. Brandon Jennings did terribly in Europe and yet here he is now in the NBA as a above average PG