GT: Spurs vs. Thunder

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GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#1 » by Nolan » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:10 pm

When: 9:30 PM ET, March 16, 2012
Where: Chesapeake Energy Arena, Oklahoma City, OK

Image

VS

Image

Starting Lineups:

Spurs:
PG - Tony Parker
SG - Daniel Green
SF - Richard Jefferson
PF - Tim Duncan
C - DeJuan Blair

Thunder:
PG - Russell Westbrook
SG - Daequan Cook
SF - Kevin Durant
PF - Serge Ibaka
C - Kendrick Perkins

Gonna be a tough one against the Thunder tomorrow night. We`ve been playing great lately and we need to keep it up.

The key to this is going to be keepîng the ball out of Durant and Westbrooks hands. We need to force their supporting cast to beat us.

Go Spurs!!
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#2 » by co_laper » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:21 pm

I don't know. First game with Jackson I guess. The chemistry probably won't be there yet. While he should know the system, Jax still needs to familiarize himself with his new teammates. I'm sure he'll have plenty of energy, but I don't think it'll translate to a win on the road againts OKC. And if I'm not mistaken, didn't we beat OKC last time? Revenge should be on their mind.

Signs points to a loss. I'm just excited to see how Jax fits in this time around. I remember back then Jax was good as a slasher.. He was very slithery and just somehow gets to the rim and dropping off passes for David Robinson and Tim Duncan. He was also hitting clutch three pointers. But that was then.

Jax is prone to turnovers and we're a team that doesn't commit much. Either we'll commit more turnovers than usual, or Jax keep his turnover rate to a career low. I'm curious as to which will happen. And I really hope Jax is more assertive than RJ is both on the offensive end and on the defensive end. I don't want Jax to simply become a spot up three point shooter because he's trying to defer.

Jax watch is on.
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#3 » by Ballings7 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:17 am

While he got more touches, Jax was still getting after it in a serious way with Charlotte and all the way with GS of course... his FG% was almost never good, but he was still always effective and was impactful late in games than not... he'll rebound and defend better than Jefferson, most definitely. Jefferson wasn't bad in the clutch, but Jackson's just a killer there, of course!

Be an interesting game
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#4 » by co_laper » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:39 am

I also wonder how we'll use him. Pop said he wants Manu to be the starter eventually. Kawhi has good chemistry as the defensive stopper and We could surely use Jax's scoring off the bench.

I'm hoping for Manu and Kawhi to start. I'm not sure having Jax starting is good for us. As a 4th option, you don't really get many scoring opportunities except if it's wide open shot. Jax has the ability to create his own offense. Either Manu or Jax has to come off the bench and provide that second unit some offense.
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#5 » by Donald Kaufman » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:06 am

Unleash SJax!!!!
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#6 » by SinJackal » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:37 am

co_laper wrote: And if I'm not mistaken, didn't we beat OKC last time? Revenge should be on their mind.


We've won 8 of the last 9 against them actually. OKC struggles against SA. But, ironically, all 9 of the last 9 was with RJ. This is the first one without. So it will be ironic if we go 0-1 without RJ and with Jackson. Then someone can point out that as being the main difference as to why we can't beat them now. Assuming we lose.


Signs points to a loss.

He was also hitting clutch three pointers. But that was then.

Jax is prone to turnovers and we're a team that doesn't commit much.


Completely agree on all 3 points. I don't see us winning with diminished 3pt shooting and chemistry issues. We need Tony, Timmy, and Manu to all have huge games, and someone else has to step up as well. Most likely Green or Neal. Kawahi also needs to play better prevenative D' on Durant this time. At least hold his efficiency down. He's the only guy we have big and quick enough to try and stop him.

I'm mostly curious to see if Tony Parker's dominance of Westbrook continues. He's held Westbrook to an extremely poor 36% shooting against him and the Spurs for their lifetime matchups. Speaking of 36%, that's what Jackson is shooting this year. Sigh. I dunno man, he really doesn't seem like a good fit to me the more I look at it. The tendencies he's developed since leaving the Spurs are not Spurs tendencies. Sometimes it seems like he completely disregards turnovers and efficiency in favor of higher point totals for himself. We're basically banking that he'll stop being the guy he's been for the last 9 years. . . :\

I don't mean to keep seemingly bashing the guy, but he just doesn't instill me with confidence at all. I've been watching Bucks games this year and he's looked really terrible.
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#7 » by UDRIH14 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:08 pm

u forgot 9-0 rj did **** in those wins
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#8 » by co_laper » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:50 pm

SinJackal wrote:
We've won 8 of the last 9 against them actually. OKC struggles against SA. But, ironically, all 9 of the last 9 was with RJ. This is the first one without. So it will be ironic if we go 0-1 without RJ and with Jackson. Then someone can point out that as being the main difference as to why we can't beat them now. Assuming we lose.


Why would anyone point that out as the main difference unless we won those games because of RJ and lose the next one because of Jax? It definitely wouldn't be a smart to just say that without a stronger argument.

Completely agree on all 3 points. I don't see us winning with diminished 3pt shooting and chemistry issues. We need Tony, Timmy, and Manu to all have huge games, and someone else has to step up as well. Most likely Green or Neal. Kawahi also needs to play better prevenative D' on Durant this time. At least hold his efficiency down. He's the only guy we have big and quick enough to try and stop him.


Anyways, it's looking like Jackson won't play in this OKC game. Kawhi is going to have his hands full. I don't think there's anyway Durant doesn't blow up in this game. I'd say anything below 30 points is a success. Kawhi right now is at best an average or above average defender. Durant is atleast the world's best top 3 scorer.

I'm mostly curious to see if Tony Parker's dominance of Westbrook continues. He's held Westbrook to an extremely poor 36% shooting against him and the Spurs for their lifetime matchups. Speaking of 36%, that's what Jackson is shooting this year. Sigh. I dunno man, he really doesn't seem like a good fit to me the more I look at it. The tendencies he's developed since leaving the Spurs are not Spurs tendencies. Sometimes it seems like he completely disregards turnovers and efficiency in favor of higher point totals for himself. We're basically banking that he'll stop being the guy he's been for the last 9 years. . . :\

I don't mean to keep seemingly bashing the guy, but he just doesn't instill me with confidence at all. I've been watching Bucks games this year and he's looked really terrible.


I'm just gonna get this out there.. I don't believe you one bit when you say you've been watching Bucks games this year.

Anyways, it remains to be seen which Jackson we're getting. At this point, I want someone who is more aggresive on the offensive end than RJ. That basically means I don't want Jackson to simply be a spot up shooter. Kawhi has shown us that our SF doesn't have to be like Bruce who just stands around on the 3 point line. A young Sean Elliott did his damage on the three point line but also as a slasher with his quick first step. That was what Jackson did when he was with the Spurs.

And I'm also interested in seeing how his defense is. It's not necessarily about stopping anyone, but I'd like to have a Mario Elie type here and that's what Jackson can/is expected to give us. Elie didn't stop anybody during his time here, but he was a dog. He had that attitude with him. That fire. It's something I miss from when Dennis Rodman was here. It's always nice when you have one person on your team who's a bit wild. Ofcourse it's awful when your whole team is wild... Like Rodman and Elie, the one thing i like about Jax is that he plays with his emotion on his sleeves. You see his emotion all the time.

He might not be the perfect Spur. He wasn't a perfect Spur even when he was here. But IMO we already have 11 other perfect Spurs here. And Milwaukee won earlier this season with Jackson torching us for 30+ points posting up Kawhi and just killing him everywhere. I don't judge Jackson by what he's done this year. I'm looking at what he's done last year and I say he's not finished just yet.
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#9 » by SinJackal » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:35 am

Thunder sure are getting a ton of free throws in the last few minutes. Nearly every other play it seems, while we're not getting any anymore.


UDRIH14 wrote:u forgot 9-0 rj did **** in those wins


Actually, Jefferson averaged 16 PPG on 48.3% from the field and even 52.3% from three against the Thunder, and is 11-2 against Durant in his career.

And he's held Durant to 22 PPG on 44% from the field and 25% from three and 3.3 TOs/game.

Hasn't done anything? Stop it. Jefferson has been excellent against Durant and the Thunder. Durant's only lit up RJ one time (where RJ didn't even play half the game, so he wasn't just lighting up RJ). If you exclude that, Durant's barely averaged 20 PPG on him for the other 12 times they've faced eachother.

I wonder why you guys keep posting such bogus information. Just because you hate RJ doesn't mean he always sucked. And the stats don't lile. He clearly didn't suck against Durant and the Thunder. At least look it up first before bellowing crap-smelling bs from your mouth broseph.


co_laper wrote:Why would anyone point that out as the main difference unless we won those games because of RJ and lose the next one because of Jax? It definitely wouldn't be a smart to just say that without a stronger argument.


Like I just said to the other guy, RJ actually defended and scored well on Durant, contrary to the incorrect belief by RJ haters that he sucked. This also includes several games where RJ had to play extra hard to make up for no Duncan, Manu, or Parker, or combinations of 2/3 of them not playing in particular games due to rest or injury purposes.

I'm not gonna keep defending RJ forever, but RJ was a good role player. He sucked the first year with us and was disappointing, but the 2nd and 3rd years, the guy was just fine. Just a bit overpaid. He was absolutely not a negative presence at all. I don't understand why you guys bash him so much when he's won us some games and very rarely lost us any. What more do you want out of a 5th option?


Anyways, it's looking like Jackson won't play in this OKC game. Kawhi is going to have his hands full. I don't think there's anyway Durant doesn't blow up in this game. I'd say anything below 30 points is a success. Kawhi right now is at best an average or above average defender. Durant is atleast the world's best top 3 scorer.


RJ held him below 23 PPG. So anything more than that is a failure. Especially if it's as high as 30.

On a side note, as I type this, Leonard just shut down Harden. I've actually been meaning to mention this to you last week; Leonard has been looking a lot better since the all star break. Still not a rleiable 3pt shooter, but I've been liking his D', and especially been impressed with his offensive rebounding and putback efforts. Katroll Leonard, trolling the glass and pissing off opposing fanbases on a nightly bases.

I'm just gonna get this out there.. I don't believe you one bit when you say you've been watching Bucks games this year.


I live in Antioch, Illinois, which is very close to the Wisconsin border (feel free to look it up on Mapquest). So I get both Bulls and Bucks games on tv and the radio. I also get Cubs and Brewers games. So yes, I have watched and listened to plenty of Bucks games. I haven't followed them all season, but I watch them when I have nothing else to do since I like basketball. Like I said, I have watched about 8 Bucks games, maybe more. Didn't say I watched them all.

Anyways, it remains to be seen which Jackson we're getting. At this point, I want someone who is more aggresive on the offensive end than RJ.


Exactly what we don't need. Not to beat a dead horse, but Jackson is extrmeely inefficient. What you wanted was someone who is aggressive AND efficient. Not someone who's aggressive and inefficient. I would rather have an unaggressive but very efficient RJ than the aggressive but extremely inefficient Jackson. He has been a headache on the offensive end this season. Almost to the point that you want to yell at your tv for him to not shoot it.

He's going to shoot us out of more games than he's going to shoot us into. That is the nature of volume scorers. Then, those games that he does seem to be hot in, oh, hopefully it isn't against the Bobcats when we didn't even need it.

I don't judge Jackson by what he's done this year. I'm looking at what he's done last year and I say he's not finished just yet.


Last year isn't this year man. People sometimes suck from year to year, especially when you get to 34. As for his game against SA, that was literally his only good game of the season.
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#10 » by SinJackal » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:37 am

Wow, so 7 straight FTAs on 3 straight possessions for OKC, then Blair gets hammered on a shot, then gets called for a foul even though he gets his legs taken out by Harden on the rebound. And 3 turnovers against the Spurs on whistles in the meantime? Wtf?

Refs are carrying the Thunder back with a vengence right now.
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#11 » by SinJackal » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:54 am

Thunder continue to get tons of beneficial whistles, even when they're fouling they get offensive foul calls, wtf? Collison jumps into Green and hits him while he's (Collison) in the air, and somehow that's not a block? What?

I kind of giggle at the Spurs defense too. Any time OKC gets close to the basket they just move because they know if they're anywhere close to them on layups it'll be a whistle. I bet they will wait until there's less than 2 mins left then start hard fouling on those plays. Aren't now since they aren't in the penalty yet.
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#12 » by SinJackal » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:41 am

So we won, despite the refs trying to keep OKC in the game.

Interesting damage control reaction on ESPN. This is literally how the Spurs@Thunder highlight went on ESPN after the game:

"Blah blah blah, Spurs@Thunder graphic on screen"

*No more than 7 seconds of Spurs on the offense, and they mention them being up by 27*

*Cue over a minute straight of OKC hitting layups and threes in the 4th quarter*

*breaks up the highlight by showing Duncan get a foul call*

*Highlight of Parker hitting a shot, then one of Westbrook asking a ref for a call, Green getting a steal, then they flash the final score and move on.*

I find it interesting how about 75% of the highlight was OKC scoring or getting blocks when they were the losing team, then they even showed a call for SA and a "non call" on a clean block on Westbrook. As if OKC didn't get their ball sacks held and carried by the refs for the last 15 minutes of the game so gravity didn't pull them down any.


Here are some facts about the calls (looking at the play by play text of the game on NBA.com):

Other than the personal takes at the end of the game, SA had only 2 FTAs in the last 15 minutes despite getting hacked multiple times (only one was called)

OKC got 6 FTAs in 66 seconds from the end of the 3rd and start of the 4th (3 straight possessions) Spurs were also called for "traveling" twice during that span, and got called for two offensive fouls later (on two straight possessions). One of which was extremely questionable, where Collison jumped in the air and collided with Green, still moving towards him and in the air, yet, was called a charge on Green.


In summary, from 1:27 left in the 3rd to 10:25 left in the 4th (3 minute span), the refs called 7 fouls/turnover violations against SA resulting in 7 FTAs and 3 TOs, resulting in a 13 point swing.

Not hard to come back when you get favorable calls on practically every possession for 3 minutes straight. There was also two non calls against Thunder on Spurs' shots, but I don't even need to mention those since it was bad enough.

Refs absolutely brought OKC back, but Spurs, playing 5 on 8, punch OKC in the mouth at OKC anyway.


Spurs are now 10-1 over their last 11 road games (the one loss being the one Pop conceded against Portland, not playing any of the starters).

Spurs are also now 9-1 against OKC in their last 10 meetings. I'm only including their matchups after OKC became a +.500 team, since including the Spurs beating up on the sub .500 Thunder/Sonics isn't fair. Spurs are still 9-1. They also outrebounded OKC by 12, held them to 20 FTAs, and shot over 50% at their home arena. Three key stats.

All without Manu/Stephen/TJ/Tiago.

The bad though: We turned the ball over 17 times to their 16. They lead the league in TOs and we're 2nd lowest. So turning the ball over more than them is a bit annoying. Still, green st ealing Westbrook's wallet at the end of the game and smashing it in with a thundering dunk then trollfacing the crowd afterward was pretty funny.
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#13 » by Ballings7 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:10 pm

co_laper wrote:He might not be the perfect Spur. He wasn't a perfect Spur even when he was here. But IMO we already have 11 other perfect Spurs here. And Milwaukee won earlier this season with Jackson torching us for 30+ points posting up Kawhi and just killing him everywhere. I don't judge Jackson by what he's done this year. I'm looking at what he's done last year and I say he's not finished just yet.


Well said.

Jackson's oppurtunity situation with Charlotte and Milwaukee could not be more different... near 40 MPG to 20 MPG... leading (not leader) role in the offense to veteran support player usually off the bench...

Just not fair to project Jackson's Bucks tenure as an indication of how his oppurtunity will be in San Antonio. Which will be significant compared to Mliwaukee. He's actually wanted here, will be looked to as a contributor on both ends of the court, and is in a winning situation.

Jax should be fine, and you don't just lose the ability to make clutch plays unless you lose so much of of your agility that you just can't do those things at all anymore, which isn't the case for Jax at all... again, I guess nobody really watched him play in Charlotte (I did), or at least followed at times and read game reports, saw the end of games and highlights, that would relate to his late game play being informed.
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Re: GT: Spurs vs. Thunder 

Post#14 » by SinJackal » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:54 pm

I think it is fair to use this year as a measuring stick for him. It's his most recent season, and best reflects what shape he's in and what level he's at right now. If he came into the season out of shape, expecting a lockout, and not giving a damn either way because he's on the Bucks, then yes, that will carry over to when he comes here. He may care more, but he's still 34 and still came into the season out of shape and still sucked all season besides less than a handful of games.

Highlights can be deceiving. They don't show failures and bad plays, nor do they show screw ups and bricks before the highlights or earlier in the game to create the hole he might be battling back from. Hence why I ignore highlights as much as possible. I'd rather just watch the game instead, or check the box score, or both. I don't want to see only his successes, I'd rather see the guy's failures too.

The "last play of the game" is an overrated concept. The dozen or so plays leading up to the final play are just as important as the final play. After all, it could mean the difference between a comfortable win, a lead that forces the other team to foul you to just stay in the game, and it can also mean that you're down and forced to make "clutch shots" just to stay in the game. I'd rather have one of the first couple of scenrios than the last one.

That's why I don't get too choked up about Kobe's supposed clutch play. Every time the Lakers are in close game, I'll tune in and watch it, and I see Kobe missing over and over and over while taking stupid shots and ignoring the play that's called. Sometimes he sends a couple clutch shots in in the last 30 seconds, but he's missed so many with bonehead shot selection that he literally put his team into that position. And I think we can all agree, Jackson is nowhere near Kobe level. So if Kobe's "clutch gene" is that bad, Jackson's is only going to be a negative.

Last year, the Spurs as a TEAM shot over 50% from the field in the last 5 minutes of close games. Since when was 50% not good enough? We never had problems closing out games. If we have at times this year, well, Ginobili's been out. Getting him back fixes that. Adding a guy that shoots 36% this year, and 41% for his career isn't going to make that number go up. It can only make it go down.

This just seems like a bunch of wishful thinking. Logically speaking, Jackson's not an addition in terms of scoring efficiency. If he dribbles around and jacks up a contested 20 footer to be a hero, it isn't doing us any good even if he makes it 20% of the time. Spurs are a good team because they work together, not because they have players going rogue to be heroes.

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