DK brought this up in the Cav's game thread and I think its a great question. Is this years bench the best we've had in the Duncan era? With Manu, SJax, Diaw, Mills and Splitter all coming off the bench we're the deepest I think we've been in a very long time.
Thoughts?
The Bench
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Re: The Bench
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co_laper
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Re: The Bench
Forgot Neal and Bonner.
I agree that our bench is probably the best we've had, but I think you also have to consider that our starting five is probably the worst we've ever had. I mean, you can forget about the years before Bowen because we had Parker, Bowen, and a younger Duncan all in the starting lineup even if Manu is playing with the second unit. Last two years when we have Jefferson, Manu was in the starting lineup so our starting unit is still very strong.
This year, our bench is good because the balance between starters and bench is very good. Sean Elliott said this on TV, but our bench can beat our starters. I agree with that.
I agree that our bench is probably the best we've had, but I think you also have to consider that our starting five is probably the worst we've ever had. I mean, you can forget about the years before Bowen because we had Parker, Bowen, and a younger Duncan all in the starting lineup even if Manu is playing with the second unit. Last two years when we have Jefferson, Manu was in the starting lineup so our starting unit is still very strong.
This year, our bench is good because the balance between starters and bench is very good. Sean Elliott said this on TV, but our bench can beat our starters. I agree with that.
Re: The Bench
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Ballings7
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Re: The Bench
We needed this type (not just like, but around it) of depth in 08 against LA and in 2010 against Phoenix. Glad that we have it now, at least, though.
The Playoffs don't care about your Analytics
Re: The Bench
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SinJackal
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Re: The Bench
Yeah but. . .come on. Manu's clearly the best SG we have and is the real "starter". He doesn't count since he always closes every game, not Green.
His presence on the bench really inflates our bench stats. Just like Harden's presence on the Thunder's bench inflates their bench stats. Dude's obviously their real SG.
I'm not sure about the comment that our bench can beat our starters though, because:
Duncan > Splitter
Tony = Manu (better than Manu this year, but out of respect, I'm calling it even)
Kawhi > SJax (even at worst, but I don't think so)
Blair = Bonner
Green > Neal
Yeah, I'm mixing and matching different positions, but the overall talent, skill level, and productivity is better out of the starters anyway. The difference isn't huge though. . .but the starters are much better defensively, despite being worse offensively. When you have Bonner and Neal blowing it on D', and as much as I like them on D', Manu and Jax are old. . .you can't tell me that defense is good. Splitter is kinda soft on D' too.
Meanwhile, Green, Kawhi, and Duncan will lock **** down, and Parker is an underrated defender who can stay in front of guards like Westbrook and give them fits.
His presence on the bench really inflates our bench stats. Just like Harden's presence on the Thunder's bench inflates their bench stats. Dude's obviously their real SG.
I'm not sure about the comment that our bench can beat our starters though, because:
Duncan > Splitter
Tony = Manu (better than Manu this year, but out of respect, I'm calling it even)
Kawhi > SJax (even at worst, but I don't think so)
Blair = Bonner
Green > Neal
Yeah, I'm mixing and matching different positions, but the overall talent, skill level, and productivity is better out of the starters anyway. The difference isn't huge though. . .but the starters are much better defensively, despite being worse offensively. When you have Bonner and Neal blowing it on D', and as much as I like them on D', Manu and Jax are old. . .you can't tell me that defense is good. Splitter is kinda soft on D' too.
Meanwhile, Green, Kawhi, and Duncan will lock **** down, and Parker is an underrated defender who can stay in front of guards like Westbrook and give them fits.
Re: The Bench
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franktony
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Re: The Bench
Even though a think the starters are still better, our bench is very good. They could easily beat a team like the Bobcats.
^^
And all the flaws applied for our bench players can be applied for our starters. S-Jax and Manu are old just like TD. And TD cannot shut down anyone anymore. Our defense simply isn't what it used to be.
Bonner and Neal blow it defensively, just like Blair and Parker. They're just as bad. I consider Bonner better than Blair defensively to be honest. And while Parker can be decent sometimes, defense simply isn't his thing. Plus, i don't think we have anyone in our team that is a lock-down defender. Leonard can be this guy eventually, but only the future will tell.
^^
And all the flaws applied for our bench players can be applied for our starters. S-Jax and Manu are old just like TD. And TD cannot shut down anyone anymore. Our defense simply isn't what it used to be.
Bonner and Neal blow it defensively, just like Blair and Parker. They're just as bad. I consider Bonner better than Blair defensively to be honest. And while Parker can be decent sometimes, defense simply isn't his thing. Plus, i don't think we have anyone in our team that is a lock-down defender. Leonard can be this guy eventually, but only the future will tell.
Shaq on Duncan:SA won because of TD, a guy I could never break.I could talk trash to Ewing, get in D-Rob's face, get a rise out of Mourning,but when I went at Tim he’d look at me like he was bored and say:“Hey,Shaq, watch this shot right off the glass.”
Re: The Bench
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SinJackal
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Re: The Bench
Parker doesn't blow it on D' like Blair, Bonner, and Neal. . .dude come on. Parker doesn't Have A+ defense or anything, but it's like B- at worst for a starting PG. It's prolly realistically around B grade, when compared and contrasted to the other 29 starting PGs in the NBA. He uses his help defense well, and keeps fast guards in front of him unless funneling to a shot blocker. Blair/Bonner/Neal don't even have C level defense. None of them.
Anyway, i do agree that our bench could probably beat the Bobcats. Especially if we're including Manu on it. He's clearly not a "bench player" by the normal definition. We pretty much have a top 5 SG coming off the bench right now.
Anyway, i do agree that our bench could probably beat the Bobcats. Especially if we're including Manu on it. He's clearly not a "bench player" by the normal definition. We pretty much have a top 5 SG coming off the bench right now.
Re: The Bench
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Ballings7
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Re: The Bench
I think defensively as a team, not bad, but not really good on a consistent basis... more like in the middle, decent in terms of level
I think the best may be to come in the playoffs, though...
I think the best may be to come in the playoffs, though...
The Playoffs don't care about your Analytics
Re: The Bench
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co_laper
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Re: The Bench
I personally don't see Bonner as an awful defensive player. Okay, I get that he's not athletic and get blocks or rebounds, but you have to look past that.
Bonner box out well. It's not that often his man get an offensive rebound. And Bonner always seems to get the rebounds he's supposed to get. Guys who are extremely athletic can get rebounds that are out of their range. Bonner gets the one he should get.
And while he's not athletic, he's got good size. He's bulky, strong, and I would say not afraid to be physical. He doesn't block shots because he can't jump, but he's always in a good position againts post up guys and he doesn't leave the floor for pump fakes.
His biggest problem comes when he's guarding perimeter guys. Tweeners type of guy. I mean, I'd say Bonner is definitely better than Blair when it comes to playing defense despite Blair's ability to snatch rebounds. Bonner isn't good at defense, but he's decent and not a weak link out there.
Bonner box out well. It's not that often his man get an offensive rebound. And Bonner always seems to get the rebounds he's supposed to get. Guys who are extremely athletic can get rebounds that are out of their range. Bonner gets the one he should get.
And while he's not athletic, he's got good size. He's bulky, strong, and I would say not afraid to be physical. He doesn't block shots because he can't jump, but he's always in a good position againts post up guys and he doesn't leave the floor for pump fakes.
His biggest problem comes when he's guarding perimeter guys. Tweeners type of guy. I mean, I'd say Bonner is definitely better than Blair when it comes to playing defense despite Blair's ability to snatch rebounds. Bonner isn't good at defense, but he's decent and not a weak link out there.