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I know Spurs fans have enjoyed one of the best careers ever had by any player while watching Tim Duncan lace them up. This thread is in reaction mainly to this article: http://grantland.com/features/god-loves-cleveland/

Bill Simmons basically says that Magic, Bird, Jordan, and Lebron were all on another basketball level of "genius" than Tim, Kobe, or Shaq. My all-time top five in order would be:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabar
4. Tim Duncan
5. Magic Johnson

I am heavily weighting number of titles (Duncan has more than Lebron or Larry Legend and equal to Johnson). The 80's Lakers don't win as many without Kareem and he had one with Oscar Robertson before becoming a Laker giving the 6. If Duncan wins another chip next year I think I would argue for Tim to be #3 all time.

I believe Bill Simmons over values the Magic/Bird dynasties because he is such a huge Celtic homer and needs to keep that debate relevant. It is safe to argue the 4 most hyped players of all time are Magic/Bird/Jordan/Lebron.

But Jordan had several losing seasons, Bird/Magic never had a losing season, but also didn't extend their streak to almost 20 years. To put a little perspective on the dominance of Tim Duncan. If the Spurs finish 6 games better than the Lakers this year the Spurs will have the best all-time win percentage of any team in the history of the NBA.

Yes, I am a huge Spur homer, but to say Lebron is in a class above Tim is ridiculous.

If this is about basketball IQ then Larry Bird needs to be on that list without question. Not sure if Timmy is top 5. I can't stand Jordan and he got to play by a different set of rules than anyone else he played with so he never makes any list of mine except most overrated.

If you're talking basketball genius/IQ (knowing the game better than others)then my list of players would be:

Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Bill Walton
Bill Russel
Isiah Thomas

Well, on the Player Comparison board the top 100 project is underway at the moment, and Duncan just got voted in at #5 on the all-time list.

I'm disgustingly homerific towards Duncan being the best player that's ever touched a basketball. However, i'd still say he's comfortably in the top 10, pushing top ----NO HE'S NUMBER 1 THE BEST EVER SHUT UP IT'S A FACT.

See..i just can't control myself.

To even disuse the possibility that Duncan is in a level below Lebron is LUDICROUS. It is Lebron that is currently in a level below Duncan/Kobe....yes he can get there and likely will but he will never be ABOVE them. IMO Duncan is one of the most underrated players of all team given all what he has done and in the manner he has done it.

PS. Diehard lifelong Lakers fan here.

Goodluck this next season, would love to see Timmy get his 6th!

Linekiller28 wrote:To even disuse the possibility that Duncan is in a level below Lebron is LUDICROUS. It is Lebron that is currently in a level below Duncan/Kobe....yes he can get there and likely will but he will never be ABOVE them. IMO Duncan is one of the most underrated players of all team given all what he has done and in the manner he has done it.

PS. Diehard lifelong Lakers fan here.

Goodluck this next season, would love to see Timmy get his 6th!

I was with you up until you mentioned Kobe. Duncan is already a long way ahead of Kobe, and if Lebron isn't ahead now he will be soon.

Linekiller28 wrote:To even disuse the possibility that Duncan is in a level below Lebron is LUDICROUS. It is Lebron that is currently in a level below Duncan/Kobe....yes he can get there and likely will but he will never be ABOVE them. IMO Duncan is one of the most underrated players of all team given all what he has done and in the manner he has done it.

PS. Diehard lifelong Lakers fan here.

Goodluck this next season, would love to see Timmy get his 6th!

It's Bill Simmons. He's not any different than biased fans on RealGM except for mixing in 80s pop culture references along with his ludicrous opinions. He's not to be taken seriously.

And anyone that would rate Lebron over Shaq in any scenario is either too young to see Shaq in his prime or legitimately stupid. No one had a more dominant run in 1999-2002 than Shaq other than Jordan. Could you imagine Shaq at 28 laying an egg as worse than Lebron did in 2011 NBA Finals?

I find listing players from different eras a little redundant. How can you compare Russell and Wilt to Shaq and Duncan, or Oscar Robertson to MJ and LeBron or Kobe?

For my money, LeBron is the best that I've seen play the game. People inevitably ring count when it comes to ranking players (which is lazy IMO) but I've never seen a player impact both ends like LeBron. Plus, he makes average teams into 50+ wins and title contenders. MJ never did that. Kobe never did that. They had help. LeBron took a team to the Finals with Larry Hughes as the next "best" player.

FWIW, I guess Tim would have to be up there now on people's lists, though I'm almost certain he could care less.

[quote="Donald Kaufman"]I find listing players from different eras a little redundant.
For my money, LeBron is the best that I've seen play the game. People inevitably ring count when it comes to ranking players (which is lazy IMO) but I've never seen a player impact both ends like LeBron. Plus, he makes average teams into 50+ wins and title contenders. MJ never did that. Kobe never did that. They had help. LeBron took a team to the Finals with Larry Hughes as the next "
[/quote]
Did you see MJ play? He was defensive player of the year in 1988 in an era with way better defensive play. Lebron has never been defensive player of the year. Jordan was a nine time NBA first team defender and, like Lebron, guarding the opposing team's best player. Lebron is a 5 time nba first team defender to date. Jordan never had a great point guard or center. His first three peat was a team where Pippen was a great player but no one else was as good as Bosh or Wade. On top of that, Jordan played in a much more physical era. Jordan is the GOAT. After these last finals, I think even Lebron knows he can will never move Jordan off the throne.

Growing up with David Robinson was incredible, he is my favorite player of all time. Probably always will be. It is difficult to compare across generations. Bill was playing in an 8 team league. It's a fun discussion.

Donald Kaufman wrote:I find listing players from different eras a little redundant. How can you compare Russell and Wilt to Shaq and Duncan, or Oscar Robertson to MJ and LeBron or Kobe?

For my money, LeBron is the best that I've seen play the game. People inevitably ring count when it comes to ranking players (which is lazy IMO) but I've never seen a player impact both ends like LeBron. Plus, he makes average teams into 50+ wins and title contenders. MJ never did that. Kobe never did that. They had help. LeBron took a team to the Finals with Larry Hughes as the next "best" player.

Right, it's not as if 2/3 Eastern playoff opponents were the .500 Nets and Wizards and 2007 considered the worst year in the history of the Eastern Conference with the number one seed winning 53 games (the Thunder won 50 placing only 8th in 2010). Or the Atlantic division coined the "Titanic" division because of how horrible it was. That Cavs team wasn't getting out of the second tound and lucky if they got out of the first if they played in the West.

The Cavs were never title contenders and the Heat would have been even without Lebron. You realize the year the big three in Miami formed Bosh was averaging 24/10 and considered arguably the best PF in the league the year. You realize Wade already won a title as the best player on the team and was arguably the best SG in the league and arguably top 5 overall? They would have been the best 1-2 punch in the league w/o Lebron and they still lost their first year with him. You know, probably because in the 2011 Finals Lebron had 11 fourth-quarter points in five games total, despite playing every minute of every fourth quarter.

SPURt wrote:

Donald Kaufman wrote:I find listing players from different eras a little redundant.
For my money, LeBron is the best that I've seen play the game. People inevitably ring count when it comes to ranking players (which is lazy IMO) but I've never seen a player impact both ends like LeBron. Plus, he makes average teams into 50+ wins and title contenders. MJ never did that. Kobe never did that. They had help. LeBron took a team to the Finals with Larry Hughes as the next "

Did you see MJ play?.

Jordan? Never mind Jordan, could you imagine Shaq performing like that at age 28 in finals (hint: he dominated instead and ended up winning his first title). Could you imagine Hakeem Olajuwon doing that? Instead he had Vernon Maxwell as his second option and got out of the West with the Barkley Suns, Malone/Stockton Jazz, and the Drexler Blazers? (Hint: Hakeem had no all star and Maxwell preformed worse than Wade did this past finals, and ended up winning his first title). No garbage .500 teams there.

Forget Jordan. Nobody, and I mean nobody who was watching then NBA before 2004 would even think about typing up a post like that. That post was insanity