Let's discuss Kawhi for MVP

[Nolan]

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He's been in the conversation all year long, not as a serious contender for it but as a guy in the running. Lowe's really the first mainstream guy to come out and say this and frankly I agree with him (I might be slightly biased).

Is Kawhi the frontrunner for MVP?

[inDe_eD]

He's been in the conversation all year long, not as a serious contender for it but as a guy in the running. Lowe's really the first mainstream guy to come out and say this and frankly I agree with him (I might be slightly biased).

Is Kawhi the frontrunner for MVP?

Man I sure hope he wins it. While I do think he's the best player in the league (totally biased), I still think he's 2nd in the MVP standings right now. If Houston wins less than 55 games, I think Kawhi can make a late push, especially the way he's played the 2nd quarter of the season. An 8 game difference (assuming we win 63) between the two would more than make up for the statistical gap though IMO, especially when you look at our record so far against the other contenders (6-1). Also, winning the last game of the season series against Houston is going to be pretty important. If we blow them out, or Kawhi has a dominant game, I think we'll see the media narrative start leaning towards Kawhi.

[Phreak50]

It's almost always a best player award, rather than most valuable.

Kawhi isn't either. Yet.

Durant is having an historic year imo, with his efficiency.

Westbrook and Harden are more valuable to their team.

Kawhi is close and obviously his defense sets him apart but for me his decision making, shot selection and inconsistent play in the clutch isn't quite there yet.

[Baski]

He could absolutely win MVP........ just not this year. I mean he's playing great and i can see a case for him as the 3rd best player in the league atm. But just like last year, there are narratives that overshadow his MVP campaign this year. Unless he propels us to the one seed by the end of the season I'm not seeing how he could win it this year. I guess it's that Spurs curse of consistency. The team is so consistently good that 55 wins doesn't even make the media look in your direction, while others have won MVP with around that mark.
Also, and maybe this is just me, but he's kinda developed this "Defensive specialist" image about him. 2 DPOYs and consistently good defense makes us forget about his offensive prowess, and the MVP award is primarily an offensive award.
That being said, he'll absolutely win one. He is young and improves every year and i can only see him getting better under Pop. Just needs to outlast Lebron and i imagine WB and Harden will burn out after this season and I'm hoping the Golden State All stars disband once Green, KD, Curry and Klay's contract years come up.
Nothing's gonna stand in Kawhi's way in a few years, when he's firmly in his prime.

[inDe_eD]

It's almost always a best player award, rather than most valuable.

Kawhi isn't either. Yet.

Durant is having an historic year imo, with his efficiency.

Westbrook and Harden are more valuable to their team.

Kawhi is close and obviously his defense sets him apart but for me his decision making, shot selection and inconsistent play in the clutch isn't quite there yet.

Interestingly enough, you could accuse all of the other guys you mentioned of exactly the same deficiencies.

Kawhi's argument for MVP comes from being a great combination of the things the other guys have. He may not be quite as efficient as Durant, but he's actually pretty damn close, and that's without playing with the 2 GOAT Shooters. He may not provide the same counting stats as Westbrook and Harden, but he does have the same level of impact (more if you count defense) and he's 2nd in PER, all while leading his team to more wins.

Of course Kawhi is not done, of course he can get better, but it's unfair to him imo, to say that he hasn't been as good as anyone else in the league, because he certainly has.

[inDe_eD]

He could absolutely win MVP........ just not this year. I mean he's playing great and i can see a case for him as the 3rd best player in the league atm. But just like last year, there are narratives that overshadow his MVP campaign this year. Unless he propels us to the one seed by the end of the season I'm not seeing how he could win it this year. I guess it's that Spurs curse of consistency. The team is so consistently good that 55 wins doesn't even make the media look in your direction, while others have won MVP with around that mark.
Also, and maybe this is just me, but he's kinda developed this "Defensive specialist" image about him. 2 DPOYs and consistently good defense makes us forget about his offensive prowess, and the MVP award is primarily an offensive award.
That being said, he'll absolutely win one. He is young and improves every year and i can only see him getting better under Pop. Just needs to outlast Lebron and i imagine WB and Harden will burn out after this season and I'm hoping the Golden State All stars disband once Green, KD, Curry and Klay's contract years come up.
Nothing's gonna stand in Kawhi's way in a few years, when he's firmly in his prime.

I like your optimism! I'm right there with you man. I really like our young pieces too, so Kawhi won't be an island like some of these other guys will.

I disagree about MVP though. I think Kawhi has a very real shot at it THIS year

[imagump1313]

I'd love to see him get some recognition but I highly doubt he gets MVP. The Spurs organization and its players really don't care about individual awards. I'm sure if someone asks Kawhi about it, that's exactly what he would say.

With this in mind, his minutes are going to be managed more and more as the season goes on because that is how this team is run. Houston and OKC aren't going to manage minutes like San Antonio so Kawhi will not have as many opportunities for video game like numbers like Westbrook and Harden.

Sure, Leonard is a better all-around player than all the other candidates but lets be real, the MVP voters don't care about defense or else Harden or Westbrook or Durant wouldn't even be in the conversation....

[-Sammy-]

I'm in the 'in the discussion, but not the front-runner' crowd. Harden's my front-runner (it just kills me to have to say that), and Russ, LBJ, Kawhi, and Thomas round out my top five.

[Baski]

He could absolutely win MVP........ just not this year. I mean he's playing great and i can see a case for him as the 3rd best player in the league atm. But just like last year, there are narratives that overshadow his MVP campaign this year. Unless he propels us to the one seed by the end of the season I'm not seeing how he could win it this year. I guess it's that Spurs curse of consistency. The team is so consistently good that 55 wins doesn't even make the media look in your direction, while others have won MVP with around that mark.
Also, and maybe this is just me, but he's kinda developed this "Defensive specialist" image about him. 2 DPOYs and consistently good defense makes us forget about his offensive prowess, and the MVP award is primarily an offensive award.
That being said, he'll absolutely win one. He is young and improves every year and i can only see him getting better under Pop. Just needs to outlast Lebron and i imagine WB and Harden will burn out after this season and I'm hoping the Golden State All stars disband once Green, KD, Curry and Klay's contract years come up.
Nothing's gonna stand in Kawhi's way in a few years, when he's firmly in his prime.

I like your optimism! I'm right there with you man. I really like our young pieces too, so Kawhi won't be an island like some of these other guys will.

I disagree about MVP though. I think Kawhi has a very real shot at it THIS year

Ditto about the young guys. Super psyched about Bertans, Forbes and Murray. I guess Simmons isn't exactly "young" but given his background (D-league pickup) I feel okay putting him in that group. Super motivated guys who play at 100% when you give them the chance. Dedmon is making a case to be starter too. With Duncan gone, there's a defensive hole at that center position, and Pau, bless his soul, can't really fill it for us. I really hope that Dedmon can grow into a legit defensive anchor before the defensive burden becomes too much for Kawhi and affects his rapid offensive growth.

I guess there's always that chance that he wins it, and if he does, great for us
But hey he's 25 so he's got a pretty large window from now till maybe 5 years from now. Lots of time to grow and make a better case if he doesn't get it this year. He'll definitely snag at least one somewhere along the way. Why? Because Kawhi not?

[Chinook]

People, man. As I said in the GB, it's MUCH easier to go from a lottery team to a fringe playoff team than from a fringe playoff team to a contender. The 15 wins Kawhi adds are worth more than the 30 (overestimating here) that Russ adds. That's just a normal distribution. Russ has no real case for MVP. His team has no chance at a title with him or without him. If anything, his "value" is that they get a pick in the low teens instead of top five (again, overestimating Westbrook's impact with that). That's hardly a good thing, especially considering where the Thunder are in terms of future potential here. They should trade him in 2019 if they are a seventh seed again next season.

Harden and Thomas are in the same boat. Boston and Houston need to be closer to SA for me to give them the nod. So long as the Spurs are a clearly superior team, I don't think there's any good way to argue those guys are more important. They have less to work and don't accomplish as much. Kawhi's probably out of the DPOY conversation, but if he plays at that level to close the season, I think he has a case for being more productive even in a vacuum.

Lebron is the only real competition, seeing as I don't think a Warrior will get the award this season. Dude's been the best player for year, but he hasn't won MVP for a while. Last June, he showed he was the best still. I think Kawhi has to win the next match-up with Lebron by a decent margin to box him out. I'm assuming CLE @ SAS is going to be on national television, so it would be a huge platform for him.

Actually, Kawhi is currently having a great year against the talked about candidates' teams. He's 7-1 so far with two games versus GS and OKC and one game against HOU and CLE left. If they go 4-2 or better in those games with Kawhi being a force in all, I think we'll start seeing people making a case for him based on H2H.

[inDe_eD]

:noway:

People, man. As I said in the GB, it's MUCH easier to go from a lottery team to a fringe playoff team than from a fringe playoff team to a contender. The 15 wins Kawhi adds are worth more than the 30 (overestimating here) that Russ adds. That's just a normal distribution. Russ has no real case for MVP. His team has no chance at a title with him or without him. If anything, his "value" is that they get a pick in the low teens instead of top five (again, overestimating Westbrook's impact with that). That's hardly a good thing, especially considering where the Thunder are in terms of future potential here. They should trade him in 2019 if they are a seventh seed again next season.

Harden and Thomas are in the same boat. Boston and Houston need to be closer to SA for me to give them the nod. So long as the Spurs are a clearly superior team, I don't think there's any good way to argue those guys are more important. They have less to work and don't accomplish as much. Kawhi's probably out of the DPOY conversation, but if he plays at that level to close the season, I think he has a case for being more productive even in a vacuum.

Lebron is the only real competition, seeing as I don't think a Warrior will get the award this season. Dude's been the best player for year, but he hasn't won MVP for a while. Last June, he showed he was the best still. I think Kawhi has to win the next match-up with Lebron by a decent margin to box him out. I'm assuming CLE @ SAS is going to be on national television, so it would be a huge platform for him.

Actually, Kawhi is currently having a great year against the talked about candidates' teams. He's 7-1 so far with two games versus GS and OKC and one game against HOU and CLE left. If they go 4-2 or better in those games with Kawhi being a force in all, I think we'll start seeing people making a case for him based on H2H.

Good points. I think, like you said, the last game against Houston, and the game against Cleveland will be huge. If we win both, that's 3-1 against Harden, and 2-0 vs. Lebron. Even if if we lose all 3 of our remaining games to the Dubs, I still think that's enough to seal the mvp on the best-player-on-the-best-team (not named the warriors) argument, while also beating his primary competitors.

[-Sammy-]

One can generally predict the MVP just by listening to the media chatter over the course of a season, since the same people who do the chattering do the voting. All season long, the narrative has been that it's a two-man race, but that Russ' team's performance will likely lose him the award to assist-leader Harden, whom many didn't think would work out at PG and whose third-seeded Rockets were expected to be awful. Barring some late-season developments that tank the developed narrative, I'll bet a hefty sum that it's Harden. Frankly, I have no issue with that (and that's saying something, as Harden is my least-favorite player in the league by far); I'd love for a Spur to win it every season and if Kawhi won it this season, that wouldn't be a bad pick at all, but to my way of thinking, Harden is the most valuable player, and that's who the award is for.

[inDe_eD]

One can generally predict the MVP just by listening to the media chatter over the course of a season, since the same people who do the chattering do the voting. All season long, the narrative has been that it's a two-man race, but that Russ' team's performance will likely lose him the award to assist-leader Harden, whom many didn't think would work out at PG and whose third-seeded Rockets were expected to be awful. Barring some late-season developments that tank the developed narrative, I'll bet a hefty sum that it's Harden. Frankly, I have no issue with that (and that's saying something, as Harden is my least-favorite player in the league by far); I'd love for a Spur to win it every season and if Kawhi won it this season, that wouldn't be a bad pick at all, but to my way of thinking, Harden is the most valuable player, and that's who the award is for.

I think you're right in general about the media voters, but this does have a very familiar feeling to Kawhi's two DPOY runs. I know some had him as the frontrunner, but all season long you had people screaming about Draymond and Draymond self-promotion, etc. I'm really not concerned about the lack of chatter around Kawhi yet, and if a few of the louder names out there end up announcing Kawhi as their pick ahead of time (I'm thinking Lowe and Simmons), I like his chances.

I also agree that Harden is the front-runner, and rightfully so, but he doesn't have this chasmic lead that everyone is making him out to have, and his winning MVP will be highly dependent on how well the Rockets perform for the rest of the year. In fact, his scoring numbers are almost identical to what they were last year (with a bump in assists/rebounds/turnovers), and he only got exactly 1 3rd, 1 4th, and 1 5th place vote!

[-Sammy-]

One can generally predict the MVP just by listening to the media chatter over the course of a season, since the same people who do the chattering do the voting. All season long, the narrative has been that it's a two-man race, but that Russ' team's performance will likely lose him the award to assist-leader Harden, whom many didn't think would work out at PG and whose third-seeded Rockets were expected to be awful. Barring some late-season developments that tank the developed narrative, I'll bet a hefty sum that it's Harden. Frankly, I have no issue with that (and that's saying something, as Harden is my least-favorite player in the league by far); I'd love for a Spur to win it every season and if Kawhi won it this season, that wouldn't be a bad pick at all, but to my way of thinking, Harden is the most valuable player, and that's who the award is for.

I think you're right in general about the media voters, but this does have a very familiar feeling to Kawhi's two DPOY runs. I know some had him as the frontrunner, but all season long you had people screaming about Draymond and Draymond self-promotion, etc. I'm really not concerned about the lack of chatter around Kawhi yet, and if a few of the louder names out there end up announcing Kawhi as their pick ahead of time (I'm thinking Lowe and Simmons), I like his chances.

I also agree that Harden is the front-runner, and rightfully so, but he doesn't have this chasmic lead that everyone is making him out to have, and his winning MVP will be highly dependent on how well the Rockets perform for the rest of the year. In fact, his scoring numbers are almost identical to what they were last year (with a bump in assists/rebounds/turnovers), and he only got exactly 1 3rd, 1 4th, and 1 5th place vote!

I think we're pretty much saying the same things. There's lots of time left in the season for the narrative to change, but if things continue as they have, the outcome seems fairly obvious.

What I think is interesting is that this bodes well for Kawhi's chances next season. There have been several times since I started following the league where the unspoken consensus seemed to be 'this guy would be the MVP, except for what this other guy is doing'; it happened with Hakeem/David Robinson, Duncan/KG, and again with Dirk/Kobe, and in every case, the second-place guy ended up winning it the following season. This season, Westbrook and Kawhi are both in Harden's shadow, but I don't see Westbrook replicating the triple-double season next year, so that really opens it up for Kawhi. Besides that, I see him refining his game even further next season (as he's done every season he's been in the league), which will of course make his case even stronger.

[inDe_eD]

One can generally predict the MVP just by listening to the media chatter over the course of a season, since the same people who do the chattering do the voting. All season long, the narrative has been that it's a two-man race, but that Russ' team's performance will likely lose him the award to assist-leader Harden, whom many didn't think would work out at PG and whose third-seeded Rockets were expected to be awful. Barring some late-season developments that tank the developed narrative, I'll bet a hefty sum that it's Harden. Frankly, I have no issue with that (and that's saying something, as Harden is my least-favorite player in the league by far); I'd love for a Spur to win it every season and if Kawhi won it this season, that wouldn't be a bad pick at all, but to my way of thinking, Harden is the most valuable player, and that's who the award is for.

I think you're right in general about the media voters, but this does have a very familiar feeling to Kawhi's two DPOY runs. I know some had him as the frontrunner, but all season long you had people screaming about Draymond and Draymond self-promotion, etc. I'm really not concerned about the lack of chatter around Kawhi yet, and if a few of the louder names out there end up announcing Kawhi as their pick ahead of time (I'm thinking Lowe and Simmons), I like his chances.

I also agree that Harden is the front-runner, and rightfully so, but he doesn't have this chasmic lead that everyone is making him out to have, and his winning MVP will be highly dependent on how well the Rockets perform for the rest of the year. In fact, his scoring numbers are almost identical to what they were last year (with a bump in assists/rebounds/turnovers), and he only got exactly 1 3rd, 1 4th, and 1 5th place vote!

I think we're pretty much saying the same things. There's lots of time left in the season for the narrative to change, but if things continue as they have, the outcome seems fairly obvious.

What I think is interesting is that this bodes well for Kawhi's chances next season. There have been several times since I started following the league where the unspoken consensus seemed to be 'this guy would be the MVP, except for what this other guy is doing'; it happened with Hakeem/David Robinson, Duncan/KG, and again with Dirk/Kobe, and in every case, the second-place guy ended up winning it the following season. This season, Westbrook and Kawhi are both in Harden's shadow, but I don't see Westbrook replicating the triple-double season next year, so that really opens it up for Kawhi next year. Besides that, I see him refining his game even further next year, as he's done every season he's been in the league, which will of course make his case even stronger.

Well, close to the same thing anyway I haven't given up on the award for this season. I think you're just a bit more optimistic about how Houston finishes the season than I am. They've got a nightmare stretch coming up at the beginning of March, including playing Memphis, then us (March 6th), then Utah. Lou Williams could be a nice pickup for them, but he could also really kill their bench chemistry (which has been phenomenal this year). I really think Houston has 10-11 more losses in them this year.

[-Sammy-]

I think we're pretty much saying the same things. There's lots of time left in the season for the narrative to change, but if things continue as they have, the outcome seems fairly obvious.

What I think is interesting is that this bodes well for Kawhi's chances next season. There have been several times since I started following the league where the unspoken consensus seemed to be 'this guy would be the MVP, except for what this other guy is doing'; it happened with Hakeem/David Robinson, Duncan/KG, and again with Dirk/Kobe, and in every case, the second-place guy ended up winning it the following season. This season, Westbrook and Kawhi are both in Harden's shadow, but I don't see Westbrook replicating the triple-double season next year, so that really opens it up for Kawhi. Besides that, I see him refining his game even further next season (as he's done every season he's been in the league), which will of course make his case even stronger.

Well, close to the same thing anyway I haven't given up on the award for this season. I think you're just a bit more optimistic about how Houston finishes the season than I am. They've got a nightmare stretch coming up at the beginning of March, including playing Memphis, then us (March 6th), then Utah. Lou Williams could be a nice pickup for them, but he could also really kill their bench chemistry (which has been phenomenal this year). I really think Houston has 10-11 more losses in them this year.

Well, I like the sound of that, so here's hoping I'm 100% wrong!

[inDe_eD]

I think we're pretty much saying the same things. There's lots of time left in the season for the narrative to change, but if things continue as they have, the outcome seems fairly obvious.

What I think is interesting is that this bodes well for Kawhi's chances next season. There have been several times since I started following the league where the unspoken consensus seemed to be 'this guy would be the MVP, except for what this other guy is doing'; it happened with Hakeem/David Robinson, Duncan/KG, and again with Dirk/Kobe, and in every case, the second-place guy ended up winning it the following season. This season, Westbrook and Kawhi are both in Harden's shadow, but I don't see Westbrook replicating the triple-double season next year, so that really opens it up for Kawhi. Besides that, I see him refining his game even further next season (as he's done every season he's been in the league), which will of course make his case even stronger.

Well, close to the same thing anyway I haven't given up on the award for this season. I think you're just a bit more optimistic about how Houston finishes the season than I am. They've got a nightmare stretch coming up at the beginning of March, including playing Memphis, then us (March 6th), then Utah. Lou Williams could be a nice pickup for them, but he could also really kill their bench chemistry (which has been phenomenal this year). I really think Houston has 10-11 more losses in them this year.

Well, I like the sound of that, so here's hoping I'm 100% wrong!

And to the Pelicans spanking the Rockets tonight!

[UDRIH14]

i like kawhis chances with t he remaining games against the better teams left on the schedule...those games are winnable if they decide to show up with kawhi...

exposes those t eams and still get no.1 seed or closing the gap with gsw 1-2 games or the gap between spurs and rockets is to great like 10 games...then kawhi seals it

lebron i dont think whatever he does now will get him a mvp, his team is stacked, even with has beens they are still better then most benches

[inDe_eD]

i like kawhis chances with t he remaining games against the better teams left on the schedule...those games are winnable if they decide to show up with kawhi...

exposes those t eams and still get no.1 seed or closing the gap with gsw 1-2 games or the gap between spurs and rockets is to great like 10 games...then kawhi seals it

lebron i dont think whatever he does now will get him a mvp, his team is stacked, even with has beens they are still better then most benches

Yes! As much as I was hyped up for that final sequence last night, I couldn't shake my disdain for Aldridge. Dude is just flat out worthless right now. Gime the number 2 option on any other contender for Aldridge, I'd swap straight up for anyone else. I loved Kawhi's response about it being cool to hit a game winner, but he'd rather it never got to that point to begin with, and that the team just play better instead.

[UDRIH14]

gsw just drop 2 games after cupcake injury
okc winning games moving up, but even top4 west record where gap between 4th with 3rd/2nd or 1st is too great, do u give the mvp to him? if the gap is 10 games difference between 4th and 3rd or higher...

hence i like kawhis chances, not concerned with other remaining games against scrubs, im only concerned with the statement games remaining against houston 1, okc 2, gsw 2, cavs 1 .... win these games and posting up his seasonal numbers? its his