THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD

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THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#1 » by GREY 1769 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:53 pm

So I thought we could explore the possibilities of those Spurs whose contract status we need to deal with this off season.

First, we have DeMar who has a player option for the 2020-2021 season. If he opts in, it will be $27,739,975, taking up 22.43% of the cap (the highest on the team). If he opts out, he becomes a FA. It was more likely that he would opt out if an extension could not be reached (sounds like term is the issue, Spurs wanting a shorter contract, DD a full one or as close to as he can get). But with the current crisis affecting what teams will be able to spend, it will be interesting to see how things transpire.

Would fans want him to return even on a shorter deal? As always, depends on the details. If he opts out and then signs a 1+1 or 2+1 deal, I wouldn't love it but I guess could live with it if he could accept a changing role to make more room for the younger guys to grow. We have a number of players who can fill the 2/3 spot (though we have need of a true 3).

Ideally I'd like a S&T sort of like Durant did when he left GSW for the Nets, if possible. S&Ts are not as viable as they once were, but still doable. Miami was reportedly interested in trading for DD before the deadline. It's a solid situation for him on a competitive team - but for who? They have a lot of FAs coming up. Hopefully it would include a sharp shooter.

Though his money coming off the cap doesn't give us anywhere near that space to sign another player, I don't think him just leaving in FA is bad for us as we've shown other guys could step up scoring by-committee but with defense and 3s. I appreciate the stability he brought during a tumultuous time, and the example of preparation and professionalism he showed to younger players. But with Atlanta, New York, Detroit, Charlotte, Miami (and to lesser extents Phoenix and New Orleans) having cap space, he'll have to decide between being on a competitive team for less or on a rebuilding one for as much as he can get.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#2 » by GREY 1769 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:15 pm

Next up are the FAs - Beli, Bryn, Jakob, and Drew who signed a two-year, two-way contract. Trey's contract for next season is not guaranteed.

First, I think we guarantee Trey's contract. He's shown enough development and potential to grow. He has asserted himself more, but can still work on not deferring to vets so much.

It's fair to say Beli will not be retained, right? He had an off year, as did most of our reliable 3-point shooters, but when he's on, he's very crafty off the ball and has a release that fools opponents. He knows the system, too. It's too bad he's 34, and things didn't work out as well as we'd have hoped for both sides (frustrations with his struggles), but he handled his benchings like a pro, so credit to him. So that's -$5,846,154.

Much to the chagrin of many fans, it sounds like both sides are interested in re-signing Bryn. I've been hard on him all year (hard to justify having him out there when he's not making shots), but upon cooler reflection, the only reason he was starting is because DD simply does not shoot 3s. That one game when Timmy subbed in for Pop, in the post-game interview TD said that DeMar, "... hasn't committed to [or shooting] the 3" (words to that effect). The calm, matter-of-fact delivery does not mitigate the impact his comment's substance. Imagine the GOAT of GOATs saying that about your game. He said many complementary things about DD's game as well, but truly, that one comment resonates to this day; it wasn't so much about the 3, but about the commitment. It's damning, especially for a guy who prides on developing his game. There's a stubbornness to it that hinders his progress and limits a team. I hope I never again have to see him pass the ball at the arc with a defender sagging with 3 seconds left in the shot clock and forcing a teammate to heave it instead. But I'm getting sidetracked...

Some fans said Pop was too easy on Bryn, but I disagree. Bryn got chewed out a lot plenty, and I think he still got minutes because he faced the criticism head on. Maybe the lower percentages were from pressure to continue his torrid pace from the end of last season, coupled with impending FA status. All in all, I think both sides come to an agreement, but Bryn gets a sizeable role from the bench. Less pressure, he doesn't have to get isolated against a starting unit's best back court and he can just let loose and let it fly. We tend to overpay a bit, but like Patty's deal (in terms of reaction over time, not actual numbers) I hope fans see the new contract as fair value for what he provides. We'll have to see the numbers. Unless some other team throws crazy money his way, he'll be back.

It was a calculated gamble not presenting Jakob with a QO, and with Milutinov now most likely out of the picture, it puts a bit of pressure on us, but Jakob's O game has not progressed at the rate his D game has and that is in our favour. He said he'd like to be back, and I'd like to have him back as well. Very solid D especially at the rim, good P&R, great blocker, solid rebounder. I wish he'd finish at the rim either more forcefully or with more fundamentals, but he responds when Pop gets on him about that. Just needs reminders now and again. He simply has to make his Js, and for the love of good basketball fundamentals, his FTs. He misses a lot of gimmes close to the rim and these add up. Hopefully we can expand his O game next. Good vision and passing at this point, just still defers and isn't as assertive. Better in transition, needs to improve his post game a lot. Still, if the strides on D in execution and confidence are any indication, and the soft touch and good instincts on O are as well, there is more to mine of his O. But that it hasn't been yet bodes well for us for a favourable deal.

Drew is a two-way, so I'm not sure how that would work to re-sign him and whether we can do another two-way deal (which if we do I don't think counts against the cap). He fits really well with the culture we have. He's tenacious, teachable, and plays within himself. I hope we can retain him.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#3 » by GREY 1769 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:19 am

LMA. Ok. I won't make too big a deal of his pining. It's not so much that he feels a certain way, it's that he's going about it publicly which is unprofessional and disrespectful to teammates and the ethos of the team that has adjusted to accommodate him.

So he has one more year left. If he stays and is a pro throughout the year, great, then he gets his wish and has every right to go wherever he likes as FA. So if we know that he will not be with us after next season, do we pull the trigger on someone who is central to our system? We have shown we can function and cover well for DD's absence, less so for LMA's.

An extra year of development for Luka is a good thing, whatever the balance between Austin and SA. He's not ready to be thrown in there full time next season.

There's no question LMA has been important for us particularly after he re-signed, so full credit and gratitude. Luka does have one year under his belt now, and I think we're now more prepared for an eventuality of moving LMA, particularly if there's risk of his mailing it in (though to be fair he's been a pro on the court, but the signals do now give moment for pause).

Exploring acquiring assets rather than losing him for nothing is only prudent. It's just he may not get his wish for his desired destination. But the team acquiring him may not care about that. I haven't looked at teams with players that have to opt in, too many hypotheticals, but an ideal scenario would be this swap:

LMA for Vucevic
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yx4mr5qp

The benefit for us is obvious in terms of a younger player of similar skill. I was perusing the Magic board, and some fans were willing to make a Gobert-Vucevic swap reasoning that Gobert's contract ends sooner. Well, LMA's does exactly that as well. Honestly, not sure why else Magic would do this deal (development of Bamba and Isaac while clearing space for other acquisitions?) but having Vucevic as a starting C under contract until 2022-23 (a contract with decreasing annuals in each year).

The Spurs have been very careful about clearing cap space for 2021, and so far only DJ is signed beyond it (team options for Lonnie, Luka and KJ coming into that year). So I wonder whether acquiring a C beyond 2021 would be something we'd look at. Position of need, varied O skill set, D is there, manageable contract for financial and team stability. One way or anther, we'd have a Nikola at C.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#4 » by imagump1313 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:12 am

I'm afraid the cap dropping is going to screw us with DeRozan because is going to be forced to opt in. So our only hope is a sign and trade unfortunately. Obviously you know my feeling on him. BYE! We will never win anything with him on this team. Try to get anything in return as long as its not long expensive contracts. Or PLEASE opt out!

Aldridge.....
I have always pulled for him. I like his game but honestly, at this point anything more is just wasting time with him. 2021 is going to be another wasted year anyway so keeping him around is fine for one more year but I would be looking for any young assets or picks until he is gone. Maybe someone will want him.

Gay:Its been fun but see ya. I was always a fan of his but he isn't a winner and is not the player he was before the injury.

Forbes:I wouldn't mind him as a bench player but we already have Mills so he is redundant. Also he is mentally weak. Always has been. Unless that magically changes he is a waste of resources.

Lyles:I'm for signing him. He's not a starter but is much better than I thought he was. One of the only bright spots this year.

Poetl:I'm meh on him. If he stays that's fine but not as a starter. If we move him that's fine too.

Belinelli? He is done. Unless you can get some type of asset for him(maybe Philly?) just let it go.

Eubanks:Cheaper than Poetl and just as much meh. Keep him as filler until 2021 is over.

White:He is signed and we have another year to see how he pans out. I think he would play better if Murray and or DeRozan were gone.

Now for the juicy stuff:

Walker III:He is cheap and we have until after 2021 to make any decisions, maybe he will figure something out by then.

Murray: IMO we need to trade him now before his value is nothing. (Try to get Kuzma from the Lakers so he can play with his buddy LeBron) I am done with him and I don't think he will amount to anything in this league. His contract is low enough that someone in this league will want him just on reputation. We need to do this before he plays himself out of the league.

Draft:
Coronavirus has actually kept us in the Obi Toppin sweepstakes. If we are lucky enough to draft him at 11 he can come in and start right away.

A sleeper with our 2nd round pick (#41) could be Cassius Winston from MSU. He's a little small for the NBA but he is a REAL POINT GUARD. Not that Murray nonsense. He is also a winner who can turn games by himself with playmaking. If he can play any defense at all at the NBA level he could be the PG of the future we need. He is also smart enough and good enough to play right away as long as he can handle people defensively. Youtube any MSU game from the last 2 seasons and you will see right away what Murray is not.

Now looking at 2022 (because honestly, 2021 is going to be a waste)with something like:

White / Winston / Johnson / Weatherspoon / Forbes
Toppin / Kuzma / Lyles / Walker / Samanic
Poetl / Whomever we could draft or trade for with Aldridge and DeRozan / Metu. Maybe he can turn into an NBA player

Plus:If we can be rid of DeRozan and Aldridge we could get another high pick in 2021.

Not ideal and a very young core but maybe something to get excited about.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#5 » by GREY 1769 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:08 pm

Good insights, gump, thanks!

imagump1313 wrote:I'm afraid the cap dropping is going to screw us with DeRozan because is going to be forced to opt in. So our only hope is a sign and trade unfortunately. Obviously you know my feeling on him. BYE! We will never win anything with him on this team. Try to get anything in return as long as its not long expensive contracts. Or PLEASE opt out!

I saw a tweet about two recent max signings and what the adjusted max would be with the current situation. Given that, I *think* that with the cap dropping, DeMar's salary drops proportionately as well. If that is true, then if we're still as fundamentally apart on a deal as we have been (I think length being the biggest factor), his opting out is a stronger possibility. If he does opt in, perhaps there could be a gentleman's agreement of sending him somewhere that he would be ok playing for the year to retain some assets.

So if he does opt out, there's this nugget of a rumour:
Read on Twitter


Hmm... Magic don't have the cap space as it stands, so there would have to be a S&T as I understand it (though given how the rules have changed, I'm not sure if we can still use the S&T along the lines of how KD went to Nets for DR, and that was a three-team deal). If we could get Mo back somehow it would be a great asset to develop.

I've cooled off about by LMA tirade, and his subsequent Q&A interview mitigated it somewhat, but he was still 'either here in SA or there' about it, and considering he's under contract, well, whatever, as long as he's committed on the court is what counts for however long he's here. It does stand out that so many other Spurs have offered words and deeds of support (even from George Hill, who doesn't even play for us anymore!) but radio silence from LMA throughout this ordeal. But yeah, if we can get some assets that can fill in right away and not solely development (I mentioned that LMA for Vuc works, but if we do that, then Mo is off the table for DD, if that were an option), or at the deadline next season to help an east team over the hump (I know, the memory of last time we traded someone at the deadline has cobwebs on it). Bottom line is I'm as supportive of him as he is of playing fully.

As for DJ, I think we still disagree fundamentally about him long-term, but I do agree that with the new contract comes higher expectations. He did improve his shot, both mid-range and 3. His defense while terrific instinctively, could use a bit more discipline in when to gamble. The main thing is he really needs to improve his court vision and passing, as well as P&R execution. I know he has yet to play a full season as a starter, but with a bigger piece of the cap pie come bigger expectations, it's just the way it is. We took a step back in part due to his adjusting to the role, and he will have to show more of a complete PG game rather than the combo guard he tends to function as. Part of it is having to give the ball to DD, so without that, it's another way he can solidify his role - more room to do so. Watching copious tapes of TP and CP in passing and spacing will be hugely beneficial. All that said, I am looking forward to seeing him carve out his own style to mesh with the new generation.

I like Rudy as a 3/4 back-up in a more limited role. We're thin in those positions and need the character and vet presence. Only one more year, so not a big deal. We're well set up for 2021 and continuity of play from one generation to the next.

Would love to see a bigger role for Lonnie and KJ next season, and again with DD out of the way, they'll have to step up. More room to grow, more growth to show.

Jakob is limited in his O (though there is room for improvement) but his D is important, be is as full-time back-up or limited starter minutes to fill in. I hope we can work out a good deal with him.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#6 » by Village Idiot » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:29 am

GREY 1769 wrote:LMA. Ok. I won't make too big a deal of his pining. It's not so much that he fells a certain way, it's that he's going about it publicly which is unprofessional and disrespectful to teammates and the ethos of the team that has adjusted to accommodate him.

So he has one more year left. If he stays and is a pro throughout the year, great, then he gets his wish and has every right to go wherever he likes as FA. So if we know that he will not be with us after next season, do we pull the trigger on someone who is central to our system? We have shown we can function and cover well for DD's absence, less so for LMA's.


As a Portland fan I would like to gauge your thinking on the likeliness that the Spurs waive LaMarcus this summer? According to Shamsports of the $24 million he's owed this year only $7 million is guaranteed. If my understanding of the CBA is correct, this cap hit of this $7 million is basically offset by whatever he signs for so if he signs for the MLE he doesn't count against the Spurs cap.

I imagine that DeRozens' decision on his player option might have some bearing on that. If he leaves the Spurs are very much a rebuilding team. Keeping him and semi-tanking with the 21 and 22 draft bonanzas on the horizon seems illogical but of course a team needs to go through the motions to sell tickets.

I have a hard time seeing Aldridge getting much in return this summer given his impending free-agency and stated preference to return to Portland or stay in SAT. He'd basically be a very expensive rental that few teams could afford.

Would love to hear your thoughts.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#7 » by GREY 1769 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 pm

Village Idiot wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:LMA. Ok. I won't make too big a deal of his pining. It's not so much that he fells a certain way, it's that he's going about it publicly which is unprofessional and disrespectful to teammates and the ethos of the team that has adjusted to accommodate him.

So he has one more year left. If he stays and is a pro throughout the year, great, then he gets his wish and has every right to go wherever he likes as FA. So if we know that he will not be with us after next season, do we pull the trigger on someone who is central to our system? We have shown we can function and cover well for DD's absence, less so for LMA's.


As a Portland fan I would like to gauge your thinking on the likeliness that the Spurs waive LaMarcus this summer? According to Shamsports of the $24 million he's owed this year only $7 million is guaranteed. If my understanding of the CBA is correct, this cap hit of this $7 million is basically offset by whatever he signs for so if he signs for the MLE he doesn't count against the Spurs cap.

I imagine that DeRozens' decision on his player option might have some bearing on that. If he leaves the Spurs are very much a rebuilding team. Keeping him and semi-tanking with the 21 and 22 draft bonanzas on the horizon seems illogical but of course a team needs to go through the motions to sell tickets.

I have a hard time seeing Aldridge getting much in return this summer given his impending free-agency and stated preference to return to Portland or stay in SAT. He'd basically be a very expensive rental that few teams could afford.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Well we did actually guarantee his contract prior to the start of this season:
Read on Twitter


So LMA will be making the full $24M for the 2020-2021 season. Whether we choose to keep him (I think likely) or trade him (if we do, history strongly leans to doing so before the start of the season), there's zero chance we'd have waived him even if we hadn't guaranteed his contract seeing as how despite my criticisms of some of his choices off court, he's still the central player around whom our system has been adjusted, and he's frankly been really important to our stability. With Luka still developing, having that extra year for him to do so is important.

There were rumblings of Heat being interested in either/both of LMA and DD, so if we were to try and get some assets for LMA, apparently there were some feelers. Word had it that we wanted a lot back, and I think a team that wants a quality player back to push them that bit further needs to step up or we proceed with him. Orlando's Vuc works, too, but then again given that LMA is fine either way, so long as he puts his best effort on the court it's good to have him as we transition to the next young group that is gaining experience together.

I think we try our best to stay even keeled and competitive for 2020-2021 with LMA anchoring us but with the younger guys stepping up more around him. DeMar leaving I don't think will be as big a loss for the team, although having him as an additional O threat so that LMA wasn't as targeted on D was good to have. But we now have several other guys waiting to step up, young guys who need the experience and are good at 3&D, so closing that gap by committee should work well, especially if we want to be a more movement and transition oriented team.

Where LMA goes after that as FA is perfectly fine either way, but I do think we proceed with him this upcoming season. We'll see how things go with DD and a potential S&T should he opt out, but that's where I think we're headed, not doing anything to tie up 2021 cap space we're so carefully worked to preserve unless it's for a player we've been targeting already. Just my opinion, but based on the decisions we've been making, I think we try to make the transition as smooth and seamless as possible while staying competitive throughout.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#8 » by Village Idiot » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:31 pm

Thanks for the information and perspective. I have a lot of respect for the Spurs franchise and fanbase and wish you a great off-season.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#9 » by NYG » Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:29 am

GREY 1769 wrote:So I thought we could explore the possibilities of those Spurs whose contract status we need to deal with this off season.

First, we have DeMar who has a player option for the 2020-2021 season. If he opts in, it will be $27,739,975, taking up 22.43% of the cap (the highest on the team). If he opts out, he becomes a FA. It was more likely that he would opt out if an extension could not be reached (sounds like term is the issue, Spurs wanting a shorter contract, DD a full one or as close to as he can get). But with the current crisis affecting what teams will be able to spend, it will be interesting to see how things transpire.

Would fans want him to return even on a shorter deal? As always, depends on the details. If he opts out and then signs a 1+1 or 2+1 deal, I wouldn't love it but I guess could live with it if he could accept a changing role to make more room for the younger guys to grow. We have a number of players who can fill the 2/3 spot (though we have need of a true 3).

Ideally I'd like a S&T sort of like Durant did when he left GSW for the Nets, if possible. S&Ts are not as viable as they once were, but still doable. Miami was reportedly interested in trading for DD before the deadline. It's a solid situation for him on a competitive team - but for who? They have a lot of FAs coming up. Hopefully it would include a sharp shooter.

Though his money coming off the cap doesn't give us anywhere near that space to sign another player, I don't think him just leaving in FA is bad for us as we've shown other guys could step up scoring by-committee but with defense and 3s. I appreciate the stability he brought during a tumultuous time, and the example of preparation and professionalism he showed to younger players. But with Atlanta, New York, Detroit, Charlotte, Miami (and to lesser extents Phoenix and New Orleans) having cap space, he'll have to decide between being on a competitive team for less or on a rebuilding one for as much as he can get.


If he opted in and there wasn't a significant trade market, would Nicolas Batum and 32nd Overall for DeMar DeRozan make sense just to save money, add an asset, not take on any long-term money and create playing time for the younger guards/wings? Is that way too low for DeRozan? I just feel like his talent far exceeds his trade/free agent value as he isn't a great shooter or defender. I understand his on the court value is more than 32nd Overall, but I'm not convinced his trade value necessarily is.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#10 » by GREY 1769 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:15 am

NYG wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:So I thought we could explore the possibilities of those Spurs whose contract status we need to deal with this off season.

First, we have DeMar who has a player option for the 2020-2021 season. If he opts in, it will be $27,739,975, taking up 22.43% of the cap (the highest on the team). If he opts out, he becomes a FA. It was more likely that he would opt out if an extension could not be reached (sounds like term is the issue, Spurs wanting a shorter contract, DD a full one or as close to as he can get). But with the current crisis affecting what teams will be able to spend, it will be interesting to see how things transpire.

Would fans want him to return even on a shorter deal? As always, depends on the details. If he opts out and then signs a 1+1 or 2+1 deal, I wouldn't love it but I guess could live with it if he could accept a changing role to make more room for the younger guys to grow. We have a number of players who can fill the 2/3 spot (though we have need of a true 3).

Ideally I'd like a S&T sort of like Durant did when he left GSW for the Nets, if possible. S&Ts are not as viable as they once were, but still doable. Miami was reportedly interested in trading for DD before the deadline. It's a solid situation for him on a competitive team - but for who? They have a lot of FAs coming up. Hopefully it would include a sharp shooter.

Though his money coming off the cap doesn't give us anywhere near that space to sign another player, I don't think him just leaving in FA is bad for us as we've shown other guys could step up scoring by-committee but with defense and 3s. I appreciate the stability he brought during a tumultuous time, and the example of preparation and professionalism he showed to younger players. But with Atlanta, New York, Detroit, Charlotte, Miami (and to lesser extents Phoenix and New Orleans) having cap space, he'll have to decide between being on a competitive team for less or on a rebuilding one for as much as he can get.


If he opted in and there wasn't a significant trade market, would Nicolas Batum and 32nd Overall for DeMar DeRozan make sense just to save money, add an asset, not take on any long-term money and create playing time for the younger guards/wings? Is that way too low for DeRozan? I just feel like his talent far exceeds his trade/free agent value as he isn't a great shooter or defender. I understand his on the court value is more than 32nd Overall, but I'm not convinced his trade value necessarily is.

Well that's a big if, but for the sake of probing your suggestion, I think we'd send DeMar to a place he'd be ok with and for assets that we would want to take on. The plus of Batum is that he, too, has only one year left, and that, too, is a PO (just read he's all but assured of picking it up) so he would not be biting into the 2021 cap space we've been carefully managing to be as big as it can be.

But would DeMar fit into what the Hornets are doing? He's a player that needs the ball in his hands (he was top on the team this season at 26.6% usage, slightly higher than even LMA who is still frankly more important since our system has been altered around is game - but with two half-court players, DeMar's game fit into it well). Given that Batum was shelved (he only played 22 games this season, right? Some of it was due to injuries, some to DNPs) it indicates there's a youth movement preference in Charlotte. Wouldn't DeMar bite into the minutes and possessions of the Hornets' 2/3 rotation?

Now, we're in a similar situation in that we have several young guys who already show more promise at 3&D and with a couple of years of experience are just on the brink of filling in DeMar's presence, if not as experienced go-to scorers, then as multiple threats by committee. At some point, we have to see what we have with these young guys, this after receiving some tutelage under DeMar. Even with Batum being out of the way in terms of not being expected to give him minutes, having a guy around who would not be contributing is a touchy balance for the player, teammates, and the organization (one which we went through with Carroll and are likely not wanting to repeat) so the whole ordeal is not worth 32nd pick given the circumstances.

Miami was said to be interested in DeMar at the trade deadline, so it's interesting to see if they'd bite. The asking price would likely be slightly altered given DeMar would be there for a shorter time. But that's all assuming he'd opt in, which I still think he won't. He's been very consistent health-wise, but it's a risk for him to go another year without a longer contract assured.

Our best-case scenario is a S&T with a team he wants to go to but can't afford (that's if I'm correctly understanding the S&Ts as currently allowed). Frankly, I think we'd get more in a S&T if that is the route to which both parties agree. Sorry, I think it's a pass on Batum and 32nd.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#11 » by GREY 1769 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:19 am

Village Idiot wrote:Thanks for the information and perspective. I have a lot of respect for the Spurs franchise and fanbase and wish you a great off-season.

Classy of you, appreciate it, thank you! We could use a re-do to balance out last off-season. Hoping you guys stay healthy! Feels as if all else should fall into place as you'd like. Good luck!
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#12 » by NYG » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:27 pm

GREY 1769 wrote:
NYG wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:So I thought we could explore the possibilities of those Spurs whose contract status we need to deal with this off season.

First, we have DeMar who has a player option for the 2020-2021 season. If he opts in, it will be $27,739,975, taking up 22.43% of the cap (the highest on the team). If he opts out, he becomes a FA. It was more likely that he would opt out if an extension could not be reached (sounds like term is the issue, Spurs wanting a shorter contract, DD a full one or as close to as he can get). But with the current crisis affecting what teams will be able to spend, it will be interesting to see how things transpire.

Would fans want him to return even on a shorter deal? As always, depends on the details. If he opts out and then signs a 1+1 or 2+1 deal, I wouldn't love it but I guess could live with it if he could accept a changing role to make more room for the younger guys to grow. We have a number of players who can fill the 2/3 spot (though we have need of a true 3).

Ideally I'd like a S&T sort of like Durant did when he left GSW for the Nets, if possible. S&Ts are not as viable as they once were, but still doable. Miami was reportedly interested in trading for DD before the deadline. It's a solid situation for him on a competitive team - but for who? They have a lot of FAs coming up. Hopefully it would include a sharp shooter.

Though his money coming off the cap doesn't give us anywhere near that space to sign another player, I don't think him just leaving in FA is bad for us as we've shown other guys could step up scoring by-committee but with defense and 3s. I appreciate the stability he brought during a tumultuous time, and the example of preparation and professionalism he showed to younger players. But with Atlanta, New York, Detroit, Charlotte, Miami (and to lesser extents Phoenix and New Orleans) having cap space, he'll have to decide between being on a competitive team for less or on a rebuilding one for as much as he can get.


If he opted in and there wasn't a significant trade market, would Nicolas Batum and 32nd Overall for DeMar DeRozan make sense just to save money, add an asset, not take on any long-term money and create playing time for the younger guards/wings? Is that way too low for DeRozan? I just feel like his talent far exceeds his trade/free agent value as he isn't a great shooter or defender. I understand his on the court value is more than 32nd Overall, but I'm not convinced his trade value necessarily is.

Well that's a big if, but for the sake of probing your suggestion, I think we'd send DeMar to a place he'd be ok with and for assets that we would want to take on. The plus of Batum is that he, too, has only one year left, and that, too, is a PO (just read he's all but assured of picking it up) so he would not be biting into the 2021 cap space we've been carefully managing to be as big as it can be.

But would DeMar fit into what the Hornets are doing? He's a player that needs the ball in his hands (he was top on the team this season at 26.6% usage, slightly higher than even LMA who is still frankly more important since our system has been altered around is game - but with two half-court players, DeMar's game fit into it well). Given that Batum was shelved (he only played 22 games this season, right? Some of it was due to injuries, some to DNPs) it indicates there's a youth movement preference in Charlotte. Wouldn't DeMar bite into the minutes and possessions of the Hornets' 2/3 rotation?

Now, we're in a similar situation in that we have several young guys who already show more promise at 3&D and with a couple of years of experience are just on the brink of filling in DeMar's presence, if not as experienced go-to scorers, then as multiple threats by committee. At some point, we have to see what we have with these young guys, this after receiving some tutelage under DeMar. Even with Batum being out of the way in terms of not being expected to give him minutes, having a guy around who would not be contributing is a touchy balance for the player, teammates, and the organization (one which we went through with Carroll and are likely not wanting to repeat) so the whole ordeal is not worth 32nd pick given the circumstances.

Miami was said to be interested in DeMar at the trade deadline, so it's interesting to see if they'd bite. The asking price would likely be slightly altered given DeMar would be there for a shorter time. But that's all assuming he'd opt in, which I still think he won't. He's been very consistent health-wise, but it's a risk for him to go another year without a longer contract assured.

Our best-case scenario is a S&T with a team he wants to go to but can't afford (that's if I'm correctly understanding the S&Ts as currently allowed). Frankly, I think we'd get more in a S&T if that is the route to which both parties agree. Sorry, I think it's a pass on Batum and 32nd.


If DeRozan does opt in and Miami doesn't pursue DeRozan, which teams do you see as the best 3-5 fits aside from Miami for DeRozan?
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#13 » by GREY 1769 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:30 pm

NYG wrote:
Spoiler:
GREY 1769 wrote:
NYG wrote:
If he opted in and there wasn't a significant trade market, would Nicolas Batum and 32nd Overall for DeMar DeRozan make sense just to save money, add an asset, not take on any long-term money and create playing time for the younger guards/wings? Is that way too low for DeRozan? I just feel like his talent far exceeds his trade/free agent value as he isn't a great shooter or defender. I understand his on the court value is more than 32nd Overall, but I'm not convinced his trade value necessarily is.

Well that's a big if, but for the sake of probing your suggestion, I think we'd send DeMar to a place he'd be ok with and for assets that we would want to take on. The plus of Batum is that he, too, has only one year left, and that, too, is a PO (just read he's all but assured of picking it up) so he would not be biting into the 2021 cap space we've been carefully managing to be as big as it can be.

But would DeMar fit into what the Hornets are doing? He's a player that needs the ball in his hands (he was top on the team this season at 26.6% usage, slightly higher than even LMA who is still frankly more important since our system has been altered around is game - but with two half-court players, DeMar's game fit into it well). Given that Batum was shelved (he only played 22 games this season, right? Some of it was due to injuries, some to DNPs) it indicates there's a youth movement preference in Charlotte. Wouldn't DeMar bite into the minutes and possessions of the Hornets' 2/3 rotation?

Now, we're in a similar situation in that we have several young guys who already show more promise at 3&D and with a couple of years of experience are just on the brink of filling in DeMar's presence, if not as experienced go-to scorers, then as multiple threats by committee. At some point, we have to see what we have with these young guys, this after receiving some tutelage under DeMar. Even with Batum being out of the way in terms of not being expected to give him minutes, having a guy around who would not be contributing is a touchy balance for the player, teammates, and the organization (one which we went through with Carroll and are likely not wanting to repeat) so the whole ordeal is not worth 32nd pick given the circumstances.

Miami was said to be interested in DeMar at the trade deadline, so it's interesting to see if they'd bite. The asking price would likely be slightly altered given DeMar would be there for a shorter time. But that's all assuming he'd opt in, which I still think he won't. He's been very consistent health-wise, but it's a risk for him to go another year without a longer contract assured.

Our best-case scenario is a S&T with a team he wants to go to but can't afford (that's if I'm correctly understanding the S&Ts as currently allowed). Frankly, I think we'd get more in a S&T if that is the route to which both parties agree. Sorry, I think it's a pass on Batum and 32nd.


If DeRozan does opt in and Miami doesn't pursue DeRozan, which teams do you see as the best 3-5 fits aside from Miami for DeRozan?

If he opts in, teams that would need an extra scoring boost that are already competitive - there's whispers of Orlando (tweeted above) which could be advantageous because the tweet suggests DeMar would have FA interest there, so if he were to commit to a longer deal with them we could possibly get more assets. Maybe Nets if they need a reliable third scorer and it seems they'll be parting with SD in a package so as to give KI the reins. SD wants to start and made a good case for himself (there was word of SD and JA being packaged). Mayyyybe Bulls? Poor record and turmoil, but they have a new FO now so there's a feeling of resurgence, and have a player who expressed some frustration.

I think DeMar would want to go east and we'd accommodate that. Each of those teams rated in the bottom ten in offensive rating this season, and each was in the bottom ten in PPG (well, Nets were 19th, so just at the cusp, but this while missing their two main scoring threats, so big caveat). Each team has players we may be interested in trading for and could be pried away (in other words, not trading anyone from any of their respective cores) and each has its first and second round picks as well.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#14 » by NYG » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:04 pm

GREY 1769 wrote:
NYG wrote:
Spoiler:
GREY 1769 wrote:Well that's a big if, but for the sake of probing your suggestion, I think we'd send DeMar to a place he'd be ok with and for assets that we would want to take on. The plus of Batum is that he, too, has only one year left, and that, too, is a PO (just read he's all but assured of picking it up) so he would not be biting into the 2021 cap space we've been carefully managing to be as big as it can be.

But would DeMar fit into what the Hornets are doing? He's a player that needs the ball in his hands (he was top on the team this season at 26.6% usage, slightly higher than even LMA who is still frankly more important since our system has been altered around is game - but with two half-court players, DeMar's game fit into it well). Given that Batum was shelved (he only played 22 games this season, right? Some of it was due to injuries, some to DNPs) it indicates there's a youth movement preference in Charlotte. Wouldn't DeMar bite into the minutes and possessions of the Hornets' 2/3 rotation?

Now, we're in a similar situation in that we have several young guys who already show more promise at 3&D and with a couple of years of experience are just on the brink of filling in DeMar's presence, if not as experienced go-to scorers, then as multiple threats by committee. At some point, we have to see what we have with these young guys, this after receiving some tutelage under DeMar. Even with Batum being out of the way in terms of not being expected to give him minutes, having a guy around who would not be contributing is a touchy balance for the player, teammates, and the organization (one which we went through with Carroll and are likely not wanting to repeat) so the whole ordeal is not worth 32nd pick given the circumstances.

Miami was said to be interested in DeMar at the trade deadline, so it's interesting to see if they'd bite. The asking price would likely be slightly altered given DeMar would be there for a shorter time. But that's all assuming he'd opt in, which I still think he won't. He's been very consistent health-wise, but it's a risk for him to go another year without a longer contract assured.

Our best-case scenario is a S&T with a team he wants to go to but can't afford (that's if I'm correctly understanding the S&Ts as currently allowed). Frankly, I think we'd get more in a S&T if that is the route to which both parties agree. Sorry, I think it's a pass on Batum and 32nd.


If DeRozan does opt in and Miami doesn't pursue DeRozan, which teams do you see as the best 3-5 fits aside from Miami for DeRozan?

If he opts in, teams that would need an extra scoring boost that are already competitive - there's whispers of Orlando (tweeted above) which could be advantageous because the tweet suggests DeMar would have FA interest there, so if he were to commit to a longer deal with them we could possibly get more assets. Maybe Nets if they need a reliable third scorer and it seems they'll be parting with SD in a package so as to give KI the reins. SD wants to start and made a good case for himself (there was word of SD and JA being packaged). Mayyyybe Bulls? Poor record and turmoil, but they have a new FO now so there's a feeling of resurgence, and have a player who expressed some frustration.

I think DeMar would want to go east and we'd accommodate that. Each of those teams rated in the bottom ten in offensive rating this season, and each was in the bottom ten in PPG (well, Nets were 19th, so just at the cusp, but this while missing their two main scoring threats, so big caveat). Each team has players we may be interested in trading for and could be pried away (in other words, not trading anyone from any of their respective cores) and each has its first and second round picks as well.



You have been great in your deep responses. Thanks!

The Spurs don’t strike me as a team that would ever go full tank and aren’t a go for free agents model of building mostly either. Having said that, if the Cavs offered Kevin Love for DeRozan to add another wing and get off Love’s long-term salary, is LMA good enough on D to compliment Love? Offensively, Love and LMA seem great for letting the Spurs young wings and guards do what they want.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#15 » by GREY 1769 » Sat May 2, 2020 7:25 pm

NYG wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
NYG wrote:
Spoiler:


If DeRozan does opt in and Miami doesn't pursue DeRozan, which teams do you see as the best 3-5 fits aside from Miami for DeRozan?

If he opts in, teams that would need an extra scoring boost that are already competitive - there's whispers of Orlando (tweeted above) which could be advantageous because the tweet suggests DeMar would have FA interest there, so if he were to commit to a longer deal with them we could possibly get more assets. Maybe Nets if they need a reliable third scorer and it seems they'll be parting with SD in a package so as to give KI the reins. SD wants to start and made a good case for himself (there was word of SD and JA being packaged). Mayyyybe Bulls? Poor record and turmoil, but they have a new FO now so there's a feeling of resurgence, and have a player who expressed some frustration.

I think DeMar would want to go east and we'd accommodate that. Each of those teams rated in the bottom ten in offensive rating this season, and each was in the bottom ten in PPG (well, Nets were 19th, so just at the cusp, but this while missing their two main scoring threats, so big caveat). Each team has players we may be interested in trading for and could be pried away (in other words, not trading anyone from any of their respective cores) and each has its first and second round picks as well.



You have been great in your deep responses. Thanks!

The Spurs don’t strike me as a team that would ever go full tank and aren’t a go for free agents model of building mostly either. Having said that, if the Cavs offered Kevin Love for DeRozan to add another wing and get off Love’s long-term salary, is LMA good enough on D to compliment Love? Offensively, Love and LMA seem great for letting the Spurs young wings and guards do what they want.

You're welcome, thanks. It's a fair point about SA using more the draft/development and trade model than the FA one, but I don't think Love is the route. Love at 31 does not fit with the youth movement we're transitioning to. He'd essentially take up that spot for Luka at PF, who although is not ready yet, with another season of development will be given the chance. With Love around, it either gets in the way in terms of Luka's progress or he's an extremely expensive bench guy in at least the last two years of his contract. So in terms of fit with respect to age, position and contract, I'd be surprised if we went that route.

Magic's Vucevic, however, fits better. He's a C, so position of need while being complementary to the PF position (be it with LMA for a year and then with Luka). He's also 29 so two years younger than Love, and his contract, while ending in 2023 the same as Love is $20M less overall and with a descending annual salary. Hopefully we can work something out in a S&T (if that's possible) as I really think DD will opt out.

EDIT: I have a feeling DD may also consider playing at home in CA for what will likely be his last big NBA contract.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#16 » by GREY 1769 » Thu May 7, 2020 12:37 am

About some of our FAs, to clarify, Drew and Quinn are two-way RFAs. Drew's qualifying offer is $1,635,652 (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/drew-eubanks-28052/) and Quinn's QO is $1,549,812 (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/quinndary-weatherspoon-31608/). Not sure yet if each is eligible to sign another two-way contract (said to be for players with four years of NBA experience or fewer, but I'm uncertain about whether there are other rules ie/ can a player can sign a two-way contract more than once).

Jakob is also RFA, and his QO is $5,087,870 (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/jakob-poeltl-20214/). I think he accepts it. He's expressed liking it here, and with limitations on the O end and the cap adjustments league-wide, I don't see a team that really needs what his game provides, even if he's excelled at the D end. I hope he accepts the QO or if he does sign an offer with another team, it's feasible for us to match.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#17 » by imagump1313 » Thu May 7, 2020 10:49 pm

I don't see many comparable players to Poetl around the league making much more than 7-8 million tops. If someone offers him around that I would match and see if he fits for another year.
Like I said, I think 2020-21 is going to be a wasted season anyway so lets see who fits and who doesnt.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#18 » by GREY 1769 » Fri May 8, 2020 12:46 am

imagump1313 wrote:I don't see many comparable players to Poetl around the league making much more than 7-8 million tops. If someone offers him around that I would match and see if he fits for another year.
Like I said, I think 2020-21 is going to be a wasted season anyway so lets see who fits and who doesnt.

Yeah not extending him this past summer was an interesting gamble even before everything went to ****. One consistent predictor of good future shooting improvement has been good FT shooting. Jakob actually regressed there this season - to a career low 48.6% holy ****! lol). Like how does that happen at the professional level? How?!

But here we are. And I think it actually works in our favour. Even if we go to $10M, it's reasonable for a back-up big who knows the system and can fill in starter minutes when needed. He did improve well on the D end, and bigs take longer to develop, but I don't expect him to be lighting it up from the arc. If he can grow to become something like a Tiago-lite type of player with good passing and finishing with an occasional J, I'd be ok with it. Even at $10M/yr, I'm ballparking it will be around 10% of our cap (Patty at $12+M is about 10% of our cap right now which should drop a bit). Fingers crossed we work something out.

If Drew and Quinn sign two-way contracts again (they're both eligible, Drew for a one-year, Quinn for a two-year), I don't think they will count towards the cap. We'll see how things progress, but I'd like all three back.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#19 » by GREY 1769 » Sat May 9, 2020 4:46 am

imagump1313 wrote:I'm afraid the cap dropping is going to screw us with DeRozan because is going to be forced to opt in. So our only hope is a sign and trade unfortunately. Obviously you know my feeling on him. BYE! We will never win anything with him on this team. Try to get anything in return as long as its not long expensive contracts. Or PLEASE opt out!

Revisiting this, gump I think you are right. I asked whether DD's contract would be altered because of the likely lowered cap, and if I understand the answer on the CBA forum correctly, it will be that full amount. Damn it. Still, he did reportedly say he'd opt out if the Spurs wouldn't offer an extension his side desires.

If he does opt in, hopefully we have an understanding in place that we could trade him to wherever for the best assets should it come to that.
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Re: THE 2019-2020 KEEP, TRADE, LET WALK SPURS THREAD 

Post#20 » by imagump1313 » Sat May 9, 2020 10:27 am

GREY 1769 wrote:
imagump1313 wrote:I'm afraid the cap dropping is going to screw us with DeRozan because is going to be forced to opt in. So our only hope is a sign and trade unfortunately. Obviously you know my feeling on him. BYE! We will never win anything with him on this team. Try to get anything in return as long as its not long expensive contracts. Or PLEASE opt out!

Revisiting this, gump I think you are right. I asked whether DD's contract would be altered because of the likely lowered cap, and if I understand the answer on the CBA forum correctly, it will be that full amount. Damn it. Still, he did reportedly say he'd opt out if the Spurs wouldn't offer an extension his side desires.

If he does opt in, hopefully we have an understanding in place that we could trade him to wherever for the best assets should it come to that.


Even if he does opt in without a sign and trade, we only have to stomach him for another year which is going to be a lost season anyway. Just PLEASE do not extend him!!!!!
Worst thing will be him hogging up all the minutes that we could be giving to developing our younger guys who might have a future with us. I don't understand why we would want that to happen.

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