imagump1313 wrote:GREY 1769 wrote:imagump1313 wrote:
See, this is stuff that annoys me.
At least 21 of those 28 turnovers were because of the opponent being careless with the ball. We did not force anyone into anything.
But if you didn't see the game this douche makes it sound like we should have won.
Ouch! I think the analytics bear out that we're a solid defensive team, and that we're good in forcing turnovers while limiting our own. Weiss was stressing the better stretch. If we continue to do well in this area, even with some being unforced turnovers by opponents, it's an indicator of good team D play.
Also, this was posted some time in the first half where we played well. So it was less about him insinuating anything about whether we should have won than simply a real time stat...
Grey! I love you, you're the best. Did you watch that game? I cannot count the number of wide open threes Dallas had. Wide open threes meaning there wasn't a defender within 10 feet of the shooter threes. How many dunks did Culley-Stein and Kleibr get because we cannot defend a simple pick and roll? Anyone can skew numbers to make it look like we are a good defensive team but we simply are not. I'm not killing them for it, they just aren't that good defensively which is understandable. What bugs me is media trying to tell us something that is completely false because they don't understand the game themselves.
gump I appreciate your patience with my admittedly at times rosier view of our team while I return the sentiment - you're good people!
And I agree that this was not a good showing. Except for DeMar who looked ready to play, we were on the whole tired and out of sync, and all of those plays you mentioned were there for all to see.
Some context about the tweet: I think it was during a break in play (perhaps even at the half) when I went to check some things I was looking for on twitter. That's when Weiss's tweet caught my eye. It was a tweet at a given time at which point the TO's were 11-7 (ours), and we had 8-2 in steals. That said, I also agree that these get registered whether it's a pressure TO or steal or whether it's because the other team makes a mistake.
It's like when you've argued correctly in the past about rebounds and how total rebounds don't accurately reflect the effort to get them as at times they just fall into a players hands completely uncontested.
There are probably stats to determine the 'real' / actively obtained steals, TO's, and rebounds from the ones that skew the narrative that I think you're arguing for.
So the details of this game absolutely show discrepancies in simply listing numbers. But I really didn't get the impression that that particular tweet was an attempt at inflating an impression that is better than reality. It was just an indicator, flawed as it is and lacking nuance in real time.
The bigger picture is that these sorts of numbers go both ways - both teams register them, so it's in looking at those 'real' numbers is where we get a clearer picture. Fair enough. But we also get a clearer picture when we get a far bigger sample size - and at this point we rank 10th defensively (compared to 25th! last season), this with all the line-up changes, the LMA experiment, the missing players due to Covid, etc.
So I agree with your points, and I also think there is room for acknowledging the overall better play even as it includes some noise. It's not just about benefiting from other team's mistakes that we're currently up fifteen spots defensively from last season. We are doing several things better overall to be here
Hopefully once we get some cohesion with a full team we will have the consistency to show it more in real time game in, game out.
