RealGM

First off, we have several players entering free agency - DeMar, Rudy, Patty(!), Trey, Quinn (two-way), Keita (two-way) and Gorgui.

We also have LMA's contract coming off the books and those of Carroll and Chriss now as well.

And the first piece of news pertains to Quinn. Not a surprise given our guard glut and drafting Tre, nevertheless, Quinn's been a good teammate and hopefully what he's learned with us helps solidify his pro career:


EDIT to add:

Trey *sigh*

Something clearly went wrong. After being given a golden reclamation ticket and starting much of last season, he showed up to camp out of shape (some videos of him working out in the off-season didn't cut it) and despite need at PF, we still opted to sit him. All the right things were said all season. And then this yesterday:



IF this is related to parting ways with us, well then this is the third quality team he has played or not played his way off of. Quite the way to go. We'll hold the door.

Hopefully I'm wrong about this being a parting shot to us, but if not, until further notice:

So the 3rd most cap freedom in the NBA?

Lauri Markannen, John Collins, Richaun Holmes... some of the names with potential. There's Drummond and Harrell, though I don't know what the Spurs would do with either of them.

Then there's Demar the Franchise -

"A source with knowledge of DeRozan’s outlook said he’ll be taking a 'wide open' approach to free agency in terms of possible landing spots. But after these past three seasons in San Antonio, where he was asked to sacrifice on the scoring front and evolve as a playmaker in the process, the master of the midrange has put himself in prime position to take advantage of this well-earned reputation as a more versatile offensive threat."

Amick/Hollinger https://hoopshype.com/rumor/demar-derozan-to-take-a-wide-open-approach-to-free-agency-in-terms-of-landing-spots/

He's likely nearing the end of his prime, and I don't think of him as an ultra-bright option.

I wonder what our next move will be.

Could John Collins net us White/Murray(both?!) and 1 of your FRP's in a S&T?

Atlanta needs a backup PG, and man White just knows how to take a charge. Murray feels like a good spark off the bench. Not sure how high a value these 2 have for the Spurs, but I'm sure they are coveted in some regard.

Obviously for the Spurs, you guys have money to spend and have a hole at PF. I think our teams match-up well to make something like this work.

You guys have a nice collection of young wings. I assume Keldon Johnson has been a very nice surprise...would you be interested in moving Vassell to ORL?

#8 straight up for DV

#8 and Wendell Carter for DV and #12 (roster balancing?)

DV, IMO, is exactly what ORL would be looking for at #8 and, perhaps, POP would like another shot in the draft for a better fit?

Geaux_Hawks wrote:Could John Collins net us White/Murray(both?!) and 1 of your FRP's in a S&T?

Atlanta needs a backup PG, and man White just knows how to take a charge. Murray feels like a good spark off the bench. Not sure how high a value these 2 have for the Spurs, but I'm sure they are coveted in some regard.

Obviously for the Spurs, you guys have money to spend and have a hole at PF. I think our teams match-up well to make something like this work.

Hey, with respect, I don't think we would need to do a S&T given that Collins is a RFA and we have tons of cap space. We'd need to give a big, front-loaded (if necessary) or increasing in each year (if harder for the Hawks) contract offer. I'd rather go that route than give up either DJ or Derrick, particularly not both - that's our starting, now most experienced back court!

It's a strange thing about Derrick - I keep seeing him in a lot of trade offers by other teams but he's still somehow under the radar. I actually think he's better, more solid overall than DJ, but I am biased as he's my favourite Spurs player.

But anyway, yeah I doubt DJ would take coming off the bench well. He was tasked with that role when he first returned from his injury and struggled a bit so Pop put Derrick in as starter because DJ was hurting the team but rather than take it as a chance to just regroup and get his legs under him, he unfollowed the Spurs and deleted pics of himself and Pop on his twitter. So the bench role lasted all of eight games. He has this 'PG heir apparent' in him after TP accepted a bench role, so you love the pride he takes in it, but also I'd like to think he's matured since then, saying in interviews he views Pop like a father figure.

Also, why would Hawks want to pay $16M (DJ) or $18M (Derrick) per year for essentially a back-up PG?

So it seems there's a more direct route for us to Collins, and perhaps a more affordable route elsewhere for the Hawks to get a bench PG.

Skybox wrote:You guys have a nice collection of young wings. I assume Keldon Johnson has been a very nice surprise...would you be interested in moving Vassell to ORL?

#8 straight up for DV

#8 and Wendell Carter for DV and #12 (roster balancing?)

DV, IMO, is exactly what ORL would be looking for at #8 and, perhaps, POP would like another shot in the draft for a better fit?

Hey, definitely a glut at the guard position. I think we actually value Devin very highly. He played more minutes than any other rookie in the last 10 years. He's a high BBIQ player with a great feel for the game and is a quality defender with a good 3 foundation - pretty much the guy we need going forward. I think he's one of two players with the highest potential on our team.

That said, I'd be shocked if #8 were available for only Devin, though. Seems like lottery picks are costly even in drafts like last season's which was considered a weak one, and this season is considered a strong one.

The second option is interesting but I have to look into WC more but I don't have the time right now - I'll get back to you.

We've been working out a LOT of guards in this draft, so I don't know if it's a smokescreen or what. It's clear from your post and the OP's that everyone realizes we need help at the 4 (I'd say 3-4-5), so it would make sense for us to draft a big, but we're not good enough to draft anything other than BPA and go from there. Not sure who we're targeting at #12, or if who we really want would be available at #8.

My sense is that Lonnie could be had for the right deal, though that's just my gut fan feeling based on how his game has not had the biggest progression as hoped. Perhaps something with him would interest you? Understand, though, I'm not trying to get rid of him, I think he's a terrific young man, exceptional character, but I do wonder about what we'll do with all our guards and about our working out even more guards...

GREY 1769 wrote:

Geaux_Hawks wrote:Could John Collins net us White/Murray(both?!) and 1 of your FRP's in a S&T?

Atlanta needs a backup PG, and man White just knows how to take a charge. Murray feels like a good spark off the bench. Not sure how high a value these 2 have for the Spurs, but I'm sure they are coveted in some regard.

Obviously for the Spurs, you guys have money to spend and have a hole at PF. I think our teams match-up well to make something like this work.

Hey, with respect, I don't think we would need to do a S&T given that Collins is a RFA and we have tons of cap space. We'd need to give a big, front-loaded (if necessary) or increasing in each year (if harder for the Hawks) contract offer. I'd rather go that route than give up either DJ or Derrick, particularly not both - that's our starting, now most experienced back court!

It's a strange thing about Derrick - I keep seeing him in a lot of trade offers by other teams but he's still somehow under the radar. I actually think he's better, more solid overall than DJ, but I am biased as he's my favourite Spurs player.

But anyway, yeah I doubt DJ would take coming off the bench well. He was tasked with that role when he first returned from his injury and struggled a bit so Pop put Derrick in as starter because DJ was hurting the team but rather than take it as a chance to just regroup and get his legs under him, he unfollowed the Spurs and deleted pics of himself and Pop on his twitter. So the bench role lasted all of eight games. He has this 'PG heir apparent' in him after TP accepted a bench role, so you love the pride he takes in it, but also I'd like to think he's matured since then, saying in interviews he views Pop like a father figure.

Also, why would Hawks want to pay $16M (DJ) or $18M (Derrick) per year for essentially a back-up PG?

So it seems there's a more direct route for us to Collins, and perhaps a more affordable route elsewhere for the Hawks to get a bench PG.

I viewed it as way to get around Atlanta matching it, but I guess if it was structured in a way that would force Atlanta to just let it go with lots of front-loading, then yeah the Spurs could get it done outright without a S&T.

Wasn't aware of the whole backup role for White situation. I thought I saw he was a little cheaper also somewhere, but maybe I misread it. Murray just always felt like one of those top tier 6th man guys, but if him and White represent the future back court, then it likely Atlanta would need to look elsewhere anyway.

Do you all see Pops being willing to move Dejounte Murray? If so, what would be a fair trade with the Knicks?

SLugger3K wrote:Do you all see Pops being willing to move Dejounte Murray? If so, what would be a fair trade with the Knicks?

Celtics fan here. How do you guys view Marcus Smarts value versus Murray?

For context, this is the report that has been circulating:

SLugger3K wrote:Do you all see Pops being willing to move Dejounte Murray? If so, what would be a fair trade with the Knicks?

The wording of the article is interesting: it's not that we're actively shopping either of them, but that they 'could be gettable'. We're not good enough for any player to be deemed untouchable. I'd be shocked if both were traded, less so if one of them was, and super disappointed and sad if it were Derrick as he's my favourite Spurs player.

But 'could be gettable' means they're valuable to us as they know our culture, we developed them, re-signed them - so want them enough to do so. Retaining assets is important as is the player wanting to be here - a big factor in a small market. It also means that we're not giving them up in a package for anything other than a star upgrade. I have my theories as to who we're targeting, but will say more about this in the draft thread.

As for the Knicks, well we need help at the 4 most urgently, less so at the 3 to help replace what I am assuming is DeMar's production and scoring ability. You're not trading Barrett, so that leaves Randle as fitting the 4 need and has a comparable contract but he's only signed for one more season.

What's interesting is that it took Randle until his fourth year to hit the 20-point mark, and DJ will be entering that this season. They're of course playing different positions, but roles expand depending on team need and a player's progress so I'm curious about how he'll do.

DJ has progressed in each of his pro seasons, but there is still the question of who he is as a player - he's not a natural facilitator (Derrick is better at it), he has developed better handles than Derrick, both defend well.

Though he's improved his shot, I wouldn't consider him a #1 scoring option and he sometimes plays like that, like a SG rather than a PG who gets others involved, too. There have been games where he was salty in the post-game interviews about scoring a lot in the first half but only getting a few touches in the second, saying it wasn't his call or words to that effect.

Not a huge deal as it didn't happen often, and you like the fire, but times like that indicate what I mean about what kind of PG he is or wants to be - plays like a #1 option to the detriment of freezing out team mates but isn't nearly enough of a scoring threat or consistent enough to be that guy.

We know by now who we have with them in terms of who they are as coachable players, and both have shown improvement. But we haven't seen them in bigger roles without others being #1 options. So in order for us to trade one or both in a package it would have to be for a known upgrade and reliable scoring option.

RickyDizzle wrote:

SLugger3K wrote:Do you all see Pops being willing to move Dejounte Murray? If so, what would be a fair trade with the Knicks?

Celtics fan here. How do you guys view Marcus Smarts value versus Murray?

Is your brass looking to move on from Smart? I haven't heard anything of that, but don't follow the C's as closely. I heard he's clashed at times with Stevens but he may thrive under Udoka.

SLugger3K wrote:Do you all see Pops being willing to move Dejounte Murray? If so, what would be a fair trade with the Knicks?

I highly doubt the Spurs move Murray right now unless it is a gigantic steal. The organization has such a love affair with him I doubt anything would move him. I'm one Spurs fan that's not a huge Murray fan but he is growing on me. The Knicks would have to offer something ridiculous to even get the Spurs to answer the phone because of that Marcus Morris nonsense anyway.

Something that might work would be Toppin and Barrett for Murray but like I said, SA isn't going to move Murray.

Now if you like Derrick White, I could see the Spurs doing something like that. I actually like White more than Murray and we don't need both of them IMO and White would be the one more likely to ever be moved at this point. They both make around the same about of money.

RickyDizzle wrote:

SLugger3K wrote:Do you all see Pops being willing to move Dejounte Murray? If so, what would be a fair trade with the Knicks?

Celtics fan here. How do you guys view Marcus Smarts value versus Murray?

Smart kind of is what he is. Murray is still developing into whatever he is(slowly, lol). Like I said in the Knick's post. SA has such a love affair with Murray and he is 3 years younger, that Derrick White would be the more likely move they would make. Also, White and Smart are the same age.

GREY 1769 wrote:

RickyDizzle wrote:

SLugger3K wrote:Do you all see Pops being willing to move Dejounte Murray? If so, what would be a fair trade with the Knicks?

Celtics fan here. How do you guys view Marcus Smarts value versus Murray?

Is your brass looking to move on from Smart? I haven't heard anything of that, but don't follow the C's as closely. I heard he's clashed at times with Stevens but he may thrive under Udoka.

Smarts due a new contract, not necessarily looking to move him, but if the spurs weren't sold on Murray, the thought occurred they might be into it. Pop seems to value Smarts leadership and intangibles from their Team USA run. For the Celtics, Murray is already locked in and it would save some risk that Smarts asking price on an extension is more than they want to pay him.

Sounds like generally you guys/the spurs are still high enough on Murray that you wouldn't move him in a lateral trade really.

Well there's a few things to report here while we're getting closer to some key dates.

First, DeMar is a UFA but we do still have an exclusive window until August 1 in which to negotiate a potential extension with him.

San Antonio can add an additional four seasons and up to $149.1 million in new money with a starting salary of $33.3 million in 2021-22.

If there is no agreement by Aug. 1, DeRozan would enter the offseason as an unrestricted free agent. The salary for DeRozan per ProFitX projects to start at $31 million next year (with a low of $24 million).

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31471726/offseason-moves-san-antonio-spurs-how-handle-demar-derozan-free-agency

We know he doesn't want a short deal. If he were open to it, we'd likely have signed him to it already. That's his right as UFA.

As to the landscape of potential suitors, Bobby Marks lists Charlotte, Dallas, Miami and New York as teams with the possible cap space to sign him outright. I don't really see the Hornets as an option, Mavs need another reliable scorer, we know the Heat were interested in trading for him we just weren't interested enough in what was offered to pull the trigger, and NYC is on the upswing after this season. Three out of four teams out east, too, and two with some interesting lures.

But then there's also teams that may want DeMar but can't afford him without our help:


Do we actually deal with the Lakers? Would they finally relent to let go of Kuzma lol? In all seriousness, we reportedly were looking to draft him but he was selected two picks ahead of Derrick White. If we were to get a pick or picks out of it, I wonder if we'd do it?

I'd rather that than re-signing DeMar to that huge deal he's eligible to with us, to be honest. I have a feeling we're up to something, but I don't think it involves DeMar, at least not staying with us.

GREY 1769 wrote:Do we actually deal with the Lakers? Would they finally relent to let go of Kuzma lol? In all seriousness, we reportedly were looking to draft him but he was selected two picks ahead of Derrick White. If we were to get a pick or picks out of it, I wonder if we'd do it?

I'd rather that than re-signing DeMar to that huge deal he's eligible to with us, to be honest. I have a feeling we're up to something, but I don't think it involves DeMar, at least not staying with us.

I would actually love to see Kuzma actually coached in a structured environment instead if the LA circus.

Look how Ball and Ingrahm improved just by getting out of there and actually being coached even if it was by a bad team.

Getting Kuzma and losing DeRozan is win-win in my book.

Rudy and Patty were part of an important spark plug off the bench that often stabilized games for us with their steady, experienced play. They were two of three vets left after we bought out LMA, and they were also two of our top 3 scorers.

They combined for $27.285M this season, a big chunk potentially coming off the books. I really like him but I'd be surprised if Rudy was brought back, especially at the same $14M salary which was fourth highest on the team. He was actually more important for us on both ends than he gets credit for, and I think he really likes living in the city and being on the Spurs.

He'd have to be ok with a smaller role and paycheque. How much does he want to stay on a vet / mentor role and have continuity with his family in SA versus perhaps taking on a role on a team closer to contending? If he does choose to play elsewhere, hopefully we can arrange a useful S&T.

I'd love for Patty to stay, again on an adjusted second-to-third PG role depending on how Trae or whichever of the near dozen or so guards we seem to be working out in this draft. He's also firmly entrenched in the team culture as well as the SA community, so there's a strong pull. It just depends on what his competitive juices want. Again, is he ok with a smaller but important team role on a smaller pay scale (he was fifth on team salary) to stay in SA or would he prefer to compete on a team closer to contending?

I actually hope that he stays with us and transitions to a player / coach then to an eventual assistant coach role. He had a clip board in the bubble, is an amazing mentor, and is a natural teacher.

Like Dejounte and Derrick before him, we have come to the time where we can extend Lonnie. But unlike them, do we actually do it or let him play out the upcoming season and become a RFA like we did with Jakob? Lonnie's game has improved, no doubt, but there were some noticeable holes in his game. True that his role has been fluid and that can affect consistency, but after last season calling for more playing time on social media, he got plenty of it and it didn't work out as well as we hoped. So far.

We have to remember this was really his second playing season as a pro, this after playing only one in college. He was all athleticism but raw and the latter is taking the time it is taking. He has a big gap to bridge in terms of realizing his potential because his potential is so high. Whether it was the various roles he had to play or whether it was playing alongside DeMar at times where he'd defer too much, Lonnie stood out as a player from whom you'd never know what you'd get not only from one game to the next, but from one half to the next.

If he goes the RFA route at least we can match, but it's a tricky game as we found out with Anderson. At the time I wished we had matched, but even then it was more from sentiment than his game, which just this season rose above his career average. With Jakob we didn't have the same competition for a more traditional big, but likely will with Lonnie.

We can begin negotiating an extension from August 3. If we were to reach an extension, what would be a fair deal? Based on his two years of play, he shouldn't get anywhere near what Derrick or Lonnie got. But would, for example, a $12M/4 be something he'd be comfortable signing or does he think his play is worth more? Do we believe his improvement so far and does how he needs to improve merit a more than $9M/yr raise?

Asset retention is important, but it has to be fair and balance both current and projected improvement. To those ends, Lonnie is one of the harder players to gauge right now and it all boils down to belief of how well he can coalesce his athleticism and development of skills. What's that worth to him and us?

RickyDizzle wrote:

GREY 1769 wrote:

RickyDizzle wrote:
Celtics fan here. How do you guys view Marcus Smarts value versus Murray?

Is your brass looking to move on from Smart? I haven't heard anything of that, but don't follow the C's as closely. I heard he's clashed at times with Stevens but he may thrive under Udoka.

Smarts due a new contract, not necessarily looking to move him, but if the spurs weren't sold on Murray, the thought occurred they might be into it. Pop seems to value Smarts leadership and intangibles from their Team USA run. For the Celtics, Murray is already locked in and it would save some risk that Smarts asking price on an extension is more than they want to pay him.

Sounds like generally you guys/the spurs are still high enough on Murray that you wouldn't move him in a lateral trade really.

I don't see Boston making that trade - either we'd keep Smart or deal him for help at a different position. My thought was that if Derozan leaves - a Fournier sign and trade that lets the Spurs move on from Dejounte's money could work.. although you could also just poach Fournier outright.