SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PM (CT)

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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#21 » by GREY 1769 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:56 am

10-2 run by us. Smart play on D, busier effort, Diop has Inspector Gadget arms holy moly! and always has them up, Jakob assertive on the drive and left hand finish, DJ with the patented steal and layup, and Derrick driving.

Please PLEASE basketball gods guide us to make our 3s.
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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#22 » by GREY 1769 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:19 am

Lonnie ONCE AGAIN drives does too much fancy flair movements in the air and **** does not have enough room to get the ball above the rim. Again and again and again missed bunnies because he has to over-fancy flair almost everything. I think this is why the farther he is from the basket the better his efficiency because the J is the simpler motion.
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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#23 » by GREY 1769 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:24 am

3RD Q: SPURS 75

SUNS 90

We almost won a Q that we're the worst at in terms of points differential but because of another miscommunication up top they got a right corner 3. So we lost that Q 33-31.

B.B.I.Q. lack all over the place.

Tre is the most natural PG and smart and assertive.

Derrick is assertive, too.

Lonnie's BBIQ is... wow... just making the same moves for three years. Jesus. No beating his man, and I wish we would stop giving him the ball to initiate the O. Just bad.

We are THREE for TWELVE FROM 3. Can't put up late 80s early 90s numbers from the arc and expect to win.

Like how the **** to we take FEWER 3s after practice and team meeting?
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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#24 » by GREY 1769 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:29 am

Now THAT's MUCH better by Lonnie. Great reaction to drive, spin, and keep it simple by dunking with both hands at the rim.
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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#25 » by imagump1313 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:39 am

Murray bricks that wide open three that it looked like he didn't want to shoot then 2 guys run right past him and they get a layup. Game time...
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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#26 » by GREY 1769 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:40 am

We play great in spurts, we close the gap, and then we get into ingrained habits - Lonnie drives and misses a bunny, they get a layup in transition on us as we fail to run back on D, DJ fails to pass the ball to Devin and instead takes and misses a 3, they get an O rebound for a basket and foul. Just a series of DUMB HABITS that take us out time and again.

DJ has yet to show he can make others better consistently. Sorry, he's a nice combo guard, but missing Devin right beside him to take and miss a tunnel vision 3 is... not something that should be happening at this stage of the career of the longest tenured Spur.
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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#27 » by imagump1313 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:57 am

GREY 1769 wrote:We play great in spurts, we close the gap, and then we get into ingrained habits - Lonnie drives and misses a bunny, they get a layup in transition on us as we fail to run back on D, DJ fails to pass the ball to Devin and instead takes and misses a 3, they get an O rebound for a basket and foul. Just a series of DUMB HABITS that take us out time and again.

DJ has yet to show he can make others better consistently. Sorry, he's a nice combo guard, but missing Devin right beside him to take and miss a tunnel vision 3 is... not something that should be happening at this stage of the career of the longest tenured Spur.


Young team trying to figure it out. It will be like this all year.

Murray has all year to prove he isn't ....this.

If you ask me to read body language I would say that Murray and Johnson did not like what was said in the team meeting.
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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#28 » by GREY 1769 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:15 am

imagump1313 wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:We play great in spurts, we close the gap, and then we get into ingrained habits - Lonnie drives and misses a bunny, they get a layup in transition on us as we fail to run back on D, DJ fails to pass the ball to Devin and instead takes and misses a 3, they get an O rebound for a basket and foul. Just a series of DUMB HABITS that take us out time and again.

DJ has yet to show he can make others better consistently. Sorry, he's a nice combo guard, but missing Devin right beside him to take and miss a tunnel vision 3 is... not something that should be happening at this stage of the career of the longest tenured Spur.


Young team trying to figure it out. It will be like this all year.

Murray has all year to prove he isn't ....this.

If you ask me to read body language I would say that Murray and Johnson did not like what was said in the team meeting.

Well, the thing is, DJ has been the starting PG for long enough. He consistently gives the drippings to Devin. It's standing out in a bad way now.

As to the bold part 100% agree. I'm going to look more into this but eye test says that Klutch players pass more to one another than anyone else, or just take their own shots everyone else be damned and watch.

Keldon made a consistent and noticeable effort to pass the ball but he's so inexperienced (let's put it that way) at it that he made dumb plays, like passing inside to the bigs when they were covered by two defenders and Keldon had the open side of the basket.

DJ is not a true PG and Derrick getting his feel back and Tre, too, shows it in contrast all the more.

It's inconceivable to me that after practice and a players-only meeting that we took even FEWER 3s and made even fewer FTs in a 4-point game, yet doubled down on dumb mistakes, ones which are fundamental to basketball 101 -- run back on D, protect the ball, pass for good to great shots, you're last in the league in 3s, hmm I don't know, maybe **** take more?! I keep hearing DJ is the leader of the team and really I wish he weren't. Sorry but there it is. There's something off about him the last couple of games, and especially tonight, like he passive aggressively held back for 2 1/2 Qs to prove his importance to the team and still went **** hunting for his. We can't be serving two masters - guys looking to get theirs while secondarily playing the team game. And here we are.
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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#29 » by GREY 1769 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:02 am

imagump1313 wrote:Murray bricks that wide open three that it looked like he didn't want to shoot then 2 guys run right past him and they get a layup. Game time...

**** drives me crazy. Devin was RIGHT THERE to his left WIDE open but he gets hurr durr leader tunnel vision, ignores Devin - who was most efficient and made most 3s - tries the hero shot and misses again then gets **** beat down the court. Then talks after the game about stats that didn't **** involve him, talking about "We..." well ****...

Again, I agree 1000% about who was most affected by team meeting airing out comments. **** clear as day as to who said it and who was on the receiving end of it.
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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#30 » by imagump1313 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:02 am

GREY 1769 wrote:
imagump1313 wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:We play great in spurts, we close the gap, and then we get into ingrained habits - Lonnie drives and misses a bunny, they get a layup in transition on us as we fail to run back on D, DJ fails to pass the ball to Devin and instead takes and misses a 3, they get an O rebound for a basket and foul. Just a series of DUMB HABITS that take us out time and again.

DJ has yet to show he can make others better consistently. Sorry, he's a nice combo guard, but missing Devin right beside him to take and miss a tunnel vision 3 is... not something that should be happening at this stage of the career of the longest tenured Spur.


Young team trying to figure it out. It will be like this all year.

Murray has all year to prove he isn't ....this.

If you ask me to read body language I would say that Murray and Johnson did not like what was said in the team meeting.

Well, the thing is, DJ has been the starting PG for long enough. He consistently gives the drippings to Devin. It's standing out in a bad way now.

As to the bold part 100% agree. I'm going to look more into this but eye test says that Klutch players pass more to one another than anyone else, or just take their own shots everyone else be damned and watch.

Keldon made a consistent and noticeable effort to pass the ball but he's so inexperienced (let's put it that way) at it that he made dumb plays, like passing inside to the bigs when they were covered by two defenders and Keldon had the open side of the basket.

DJ is not a true PG and Derrick getting his feel back and Tre, too, shows it in contrast all the more.

It's inconceivable to me that after practice and a players-only meeting that we took even FEWER 3s and made even fewer FTs in a 4-point game, yet doubled down on dumb mistakes, ones which are fundamental to basketball 101 -- run back on D, protect the ball, pass for good to great shots, you're last in the league in 3s, hmm I don't know, maybe **** take more?! I keep hearing DJ is the leader of the team and really I wish he weren't. Sorry but there it is. There's something off about him the last couple of games, and especially tonight, like he passive aggressively held back for 2 1/2 Qs to prove his importance to the team and still went **** hunting for his. We can't be serving two masters - guys looking to get theirs while secondarily playing the team game. And here we are.


This is what I'm thinking.

Murray and Johnson seemed to be going through the motions tonight. Johnson is more glaring because he is usually the rah rah guy. But in that meeting, I wonder if it was said that Johnson is shooting too much and Murray isn't a point guard. They both seemed butt hurt.
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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#31 » by imagump1313 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:07 am

I love that Thad Young was involved. The guy has every right after the way he was treated here initially so just say F all of you but now that we decided to involve him he seems to be a real team guy. I think that rubbed guys who thought their crap didn't stink like Murray and Johnson the wrong way.
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Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 16: SPURS VS. SUNS, 22-11-2021, 7;30PMPM (CT) 

Post#32 » by GREY 1769 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:20 am

4TH Q: SPURS 111

SUNS 115

The good is that we're back to losing by a few points rather than a lot, and we are back to competing more as the game progresses.

The good is also that we scored more with each Q and won the second half 67-58. We were somehow in this game despite abysmal 3s shooting (attempts and makes) as well as abysmal FT shooting (8-16).

We tied with them for rebounds on both ends so the Jakob factor is real. We got nine steals and four blocks so the D passed the eye test.

I also liked that we involved Jakob far more in the second half so that he finished with 15 points, 9 boards (team high 5 on O), and 2 assists. He was a highly efficient 7-9.

The bad: HABITS. Lonnie missing bunnies at the rim because he continues to make extra fancy UNNECESSARY moves that leave him with no room to actually get the ball in the right angle off the backboard or in the basket. He makes one play a game or every couple of games that look so coordinated, each movement necessary and finish fundamental and then it's like something **** clicks off in his brain to not do it again. VERY streaky player. He continues to be almost always terrible with the ball. 'Facilitating' for him means waiting for a screen, dribbling forward then pulling back because he didn't beat his man, then... tick tock tick tock tick tock... he takes a J or drives and misses at the rim or picks up his dribble. It's no wonder we didn't re-sign him. Sorry, but taking away the sentimental 'we drafted him so let's make the most of the pick' may already be here. He simply won't or can't stop himself from over-cooking plays or making the same mistakes as in year one.

Like gump said, I'm 1000% agreed that Keldon and DJ made their statement to the team, and it's hard not to see it as a response to the team meeting.

Keldon was uncharacteristically demure, no yelling, no effervescent energy, you could barely tell he was in the game. With each Q he took fewer shots (4, 2, 1, and none in the final Q). AND after getting hot from the arc, he took... wait for it... ZERO attempts from the **** 3, this in a game when our top 3-scoring FA acquisition wasn't playing and the guy who was starting for him, Diop, wasn't really expected to fill in 3s for him. Keldon tried dishing and passing to team mates but the dishing like I mentioned was to bigs that were heavily defended when he had more open lanes to score. He looked to be making sure he was giving up the ball and when he took shots he was quietly efficient, despite the no 3s and 0-2FTs.

DJ was simply not bothering to try for two and a half Qs and took his screen and Js one and done attempts. For three Qs he took two or three shots at the rim barely making any. Cue the 4TH and lo and behold he's 4-for-4 in the restricted area. He looked decidedly more engaged, decidedly more assertive, decidedly more willing to run the team. For almost three Qs he was one or two for everything, and then in the final Q lo and behold he was 5-6. The lone miss was the badly chosen 3 attempt with Devin to his left when he hadn't attempted one since the 1ST Q and missed them both. Devin, on the other hand, was the most efficient shooter from 3, the most efficient scorer from any player not a big, ready and in position with his hands ready, and got ghosted AGAIN.

So the two players that take the most shots - DJ averages 17.1 per game! and Keldon second at 13.2FGAs - decidedly looked off their games for most if not all of the game. And for most if not all of the game they played like they were trying to make some point to the rest of the team - see where we are when the rest of the guys contribute?

But wait! It gets better. the Klutch trio of DJ, Keldon and **** LONNIE of all players are not only one, two, and three (10.5) in FGAs, they're also first (28.5%), second (25.6%), and third (23.2%) in USAGE on the team. In fact, they are the ONLY players on the team in the 20% and above usage range. Curious, isn't it?

The PG who is supposed to distribute the ball doesn't get others involved enough despite the high assists. It's not only that he pass but SITUATIONAL passes are crucial. Yes Devin got the final two 3s created for him, but he was put in positions of the game being almost out of hand in the left corner for contested shots. What he WASN'T given a chance to do was TAKE THE OPEN 3 in a spot he had ALREADY MADE IT IN THAT VERY 4TH Q. Why? Because when we were down seven and Lonnie missed a bunny layup and Jakob got the O rebound, DJ chose to take a 3 with Devin beside him. It's WHEN it happens. Then they scored another two and a potential five-point swing occurred. Down nine instead of potentially four.

Even I was surprised to see that Lonnie is third highest in FGAs and usage. This should NOT be the case. Why? Because his efficiency does not justify it. Lonnie's True Shooting percentage is **** DEAD LAST on the team of all fifteen players. LAST. LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST. Last. This is the calmer version of me trying not to **** lose it.

DJ is third from the bottom. Keldon is 11th.

Which player ranks highest in TS% among guards/forwards? DEVIN VASSELL. Where does he rank in usage? Seventh, just AFTER Bryn. Bryn has no business ranking anywhere near Devin in usage given he takes half the number of shots Devin does. Tre ranks eighth in usage behind Devin but takes only 2.9FGAs per game and plays only 8 minutes per game.

It's no wonder they had a **** team meeting. Hey, Klutch trio, how about making sure that instead of you getting your own at the expense of the team that the guys who are best at what they do get to do more of it?

Is it any wonder why we're STILL a 2s dominant team given the fact that DJ and Keldon have a 77.5% to 22.5% 3s to 2s shot distribution??! The two most high usage players are taking the overwhelming majority of their shots from 2s, and we wonder why we can't **** figure out to take more 3s. Well it's because they're setting up plays for themselves that suit their own games best. This despite the fact that we signed Doug and Bryn - two of the most efficient 3s shooters in the league - and basically treat both as bench add ons? We addressed the very things that we were lacking and because of the guys who have the ball most in their hands preferring another shot, we are going as they go. Lonnie has a 55% to 45% 3s to 2s shot distribution, but he's ass from both: he **** TAKES the MOST 3s per game but is essentially LAST in efficiency if you don't count the players who don't shoot them regularly, at an abysmal 28.2%; as for 2s, he's seventh with 4.8 attempts per game, but a woeful tenth in efficiency at 47.2%.

I don't mind Lonnie being a scoring punch off the bench, but good heavens why in the world is he THIRD on the team in usage and FGAs ahead of Derrick and Doug and even Jakob in the starting group, and of course Devin who outshines him in every category? And why in the world is he FIRST in 3s attempts ahead of the guys we signed to shoot them, ahead of the more efficient scorers? Lonnie also does not provide a lot of much else on the defensive end like Devin does. Scoring punch off the bench off ball for catch and shoot or cuts and drives? Great.

THESE THREE ARE A BIG PROBLEM ON OUR TEAM. They can be the solution, but I wonder how many more team meetings it will take? Our issues on O are not that hard to figure out.

WE NEED: Far fewer 2s taken but two of the three Klutch guys take most of their shots from 2s. Yes we are good at points in the paint, and that gets Jakob and Drew and Thad points as DJ is noticeably better in the P&R. BUT we are still exchanging 2s for opponent 3s.

Far more 3s by the players who are most efficient at it: Doug, Devin, and yes, Bryn. He's third on the team in efficiency, yet ALL of them take FEWER 3s than Lonnie. He played eight fewer minutes than Devin yet took 13 FGAs to Devin's 12 in poorer efficiency.

And it's **** like this that riles me up, too:
Read on Twitter


Really, dude? You took 22FGAs tonight and were nowhere near the most efficient. Why didn't you look to get the ball to the hotter hands again?

Also this gem:
Read on Twitter


Great yeah mmm hmmm. It's just that when you're 0-1FT it's kind of hard to isolate the one thing you weren't part of in the "we" when you didn't do your part in getting to the line and in getting the ball to those who were scoring better.

True to form we took more shots and made 52.7% of our FGs, but only 25% from 3, a woeful 5-20. True to form we scored a whopping 70 points in the paint! But the team with Ayton and McGee didn't need to dominate there because they were a very decent 12-27 from 3. It's all well and good for DJ to point out the FTs issue, and it's true it is, but that focus doesn't tell the whole truth, the one where we play a certain way that maximizes the strengths of three Klutch players rather than the strengths of the rest of the team. So not only were two of three of them smarting from the team meeting based on their play in this game, the players-only meeting was actually pointing to a larger more philosophical issue and it still persists based on the numbers and shot distribution in this game.

Our opponent actually shot fewer 3s than we average for the season (we rank 29th at 28.8 attempts per game), but we outdid them and ourselves with the 20 3s. True Doug was not here, and I don't mind our back court stepping up to fill in the attempts gap. But where the **** Keldon was with his attempts and why the hell we didn't bother to get Devin or Bryn more 3s is mystifying.

Well, it's not. It's just uncomfortable to acknowledge we need to break up the Klutch trifecta or they need to adjust their style of play in earnest to one that best suits the TEAM.

There's a parallel team and intent going on here. There's the Klutch trifecta getting theirs their way and there's the rest of the team waiting to be explored and exploited more. It's like the Klutch trifecta decided they are going to be the new top three guys that fill the void of those who left and the rest of the team is to support them, but nobody really agreed to that and it shows. Whereas the rest of the team is underutilized, these three go about getting theirs first and it's incongruent with the ideals, goals, and talents of the rest of the team.

How are we to bend to DJ's leadership when he's in taking most shots and 2s mode? His priority should be setting up 3s, drives, P&Rs, Js. The 2s should be sprinkled in to keep defenses honest, not the core of it. Teams already have us figured out sixteen games in.

It will also help when our bigs don't keep getting switched on at the perimeter. We're actually decent defenders there, but then opponent bigs keep getting the advantage at the rim for putbacks. We're still fighting and we did better as the game progressed, but we're also fighting against ourselves with the discordant styles of play of two camps on the team. There needs to only be one dominant one, and it's not the one that dominates right now.

I'm done with the whole catering to 2s-dominant players. We've done it already and know where it gets us, this with lesser scorers. So why do they insist on getting theirs this way? It's not helping the team so much as them because it's what makes them most comfortable and gets them certain stats (except for Lonnie whose numbers are just... bad).

Threes have to be a much bigger priority, and the ball in the hot hand as well. Good-to-great movement and passing and ball sharing to the best scorers must be a priority, not just lip service to self sacrifice for team play. And finally, there's an inverse proportion of talk-to-action of self-sacrifice and catering to team play; less talk about it and more being about it. Break up the Klutch trifecta dominance for the good of the team. Close the rift of two teams in one - something I thought we were done with, and play like a team.
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