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How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2024 9:07 pm
by mikejames23
https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-november-27-2024-edition

2. Stephon Castle, San Antonio Spurs

Season stats: 11.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.7 apg
Last Ladder: No. 6
Draft pick: No. 4

It’s cute to hear one 20-year-old praising another 20-year-old for his maturity. “He’s playing like he’s much more experienced than he is,” Spurs big man Victor Wembanyama said of Castle. “I don’t know where that comes from, but it’s a good thing that we can trust him like that blindly in the fourth quarters.” Big climb this week, as much for poise as good numbers as San Antonio went 3-0.



Ranked #2... but how good is he really? It's' worth a debate, see if the coaching staff can turn him into something special. Looks good as a starter so far.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2024 6:00 am
by G R E Y
His feel and drive and poise are well beyond a rookie for sure. His shot selection has reason behind it, too, even if they are not falling as efficiently (though that's improving). I like that he doesn't hesitate to shoot when open, and doesn't over-rely on a single pet shot. His court vision is better than I expected, and his handles are about where I thought they'd be.

Great defender, tough, prideful, smart.

Terrific chemistry developing with Wemby.

I'm so impressed with him and thrilled he's on our team.

I said in the previous game thread that at this rate, though I'd be loathe to part with Devin, he could at some point be a candidate who must go out to get a great player back.

But we're not there yet. Though there are aspects to Castle's game that are similar to Devin's, and though he's far ahead of where Devin was coming into the league, Devin is the more polished player, more experienced, knows how to exploit opponents he's faced before.

That said, Devin was a split second hesitant in passes and in the indecision the D adjusted and forced other options tonight but that's just fewer reps with each other.

Castle makes mistakes but he doesn't hesitate.

It'll be interesting to see the growing pains if any once Dev and Sochan return to the starting group.

Castle does not look out of place at all as a starter which is a nice problem to have but suddenly there's a logjam at starting guard for the future.

If he develops his O game watch out. He has star potential from demeanour to impact. If you had to pick untouchables on the team outside of obviously Wemby, he'd now be on the list. I think he's surprising even PATFO with how well he's playing. Creates some tough decisions down the line but opens up some intriguing possibilities as well.

Can't wait to see how he grows.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2024 5:40 pm
by mikejames23
Spurs brand is evolving right now... 8 players in double figures.

So, he could just start for the rest of the year, but will he? Wemby is our main focus, but if we win out a star rookie in Castle, the NBA will have to watch out...

Watching his highlight tape right now is unreal. He seems to be ready to take on some competition.

His passing is good, I wonder if he picks up something from CP3?

He looks sharp in the media... ready to handle the NBA.

He took off vs Utah and GSW, before dropping back down to young guy hell with the Lakers. He'll need to grow... but I think that's natural.

Sometimes he acts like a 3 PT specialist... tried 8 3pt'ers vs Utah. Is that really his game? I don't know. It looks funny on Wemby, too. Our 3TP Attempt Rate is 7th in the NBA... pretty high. So why not just keep taking those?

He's doing well in NBA rookie competition, so far. #2 on that ladder. Who's our competition? Knecht, Rissacher, Jaylen Wells, Sarr, Carrington, etc. He'll have to come out on the top. #4 overall... his expectations are really high.

Well, what do I think? Why not wait for the season to progress... 40, 50 games in he'll have a set identity.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2024 5:35 am
by G R E Y
He's recently made the top of the rookie list, this while hitting an inefficiency wall and getting moved to the bench.

But games like tonight vs. Philly remind us of his immense talent and ability to positively impact the game.

17 point in 13 minutes, just right spots, right plays on both ends, gutsy, poised.

Also made 1-2 from 3, 2-2FTs, got 3 boards, 1 assist, 1 steal.

Talk about making the most of his minutes.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2024 8:35 pm
by mikejames23
He knows what to do. He can even outdo and compete with Devin Vassell, IMO. 4th overall pick, if we can land a star, we'd be in playoff shape.

Pop likes messing with rotations, and that's ok. Recently benched Julian Champagnie.

Looked through his boxscores, has a number of good games so far. Obviously Spurs FO have let him do his thing.

Harrison Barnes and CP3 have to mentor him, turn him into something good. We seem to be looking into a DeAron Fox deal, I wonder if we acquire a star.

Wemby with 8 blocks... the season keeps churning.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2024 11:44 pm
by Rustyman
He is still a rookie and his shooting averages overall are pathetic. However, even now, his minimum floor is combo guard backup and part of a playoff 8 man rotatation.

If his shooting and vision improves, he becomes a sure fire starter. After that, it depends on how successful the Spurs as a team are.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2024 10:09 pm
by G R E Y
Rustyman wrote:He is still a rookie and his shooting averages overall are pathetic. However, even now, his minimum floor is combo guard backup and part of a playoff 8 man rotatation.

If his shooting and vision improves, he becomes a sure fire starter. After that, it depends on how successful the Spurs as a team are.

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I think backup is too low a floor for him, even POs.

He's already more polished with a bigger toolkit than when Devin entered the league. And while the latter has plateaued to the point we question how much higher his ceiling can be, Castle's play, even with poor efficiency, has us considering using Devin as trade bait.

Early, and return from long stretches of not playing takes time, but inconsistency is also a feature of Dev's game. We need more from him, within the team concept, on both ends.

Feels like Dev and Tre have been featured more of late...

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2024 10:44 pm
by Rustyman
G R E Y wrote:Feels like Dev and Tre have been featured more of late...


I don't like overreacting but I do think that for the betterment of the team, one of them has to go at the trading deadline for a more reliable scorer. Blake can takeover the 3rd PG role and Castle can be confirmed as the backup PG.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 6:46 am
by G R E Y
We may be losing the chance to find out what with 8 minutes and 0-1 scoring chances even though he's shown BBIQ, dogged D, and great initiative to drive. Makes no sense...

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 4:13 pm
by imagump1313
Rustyman wrote:
G R E Y wrote:Feels like Dev and Tre have been featured more of late...


I don't like overreacting but I do think that for the betterment of the team, one of them has to go at the trading deadline for a more reliable scorer. Blake can takeover the 3rd PG role and Castle can be confirmed as the backup PG.


G R E Y wrote:We may be losing the chance to find out what with 8 minutes and 0-1 scoring chances even though he's shown BBIQ, dogged D, and great initiative to drive. Makes no sense...


This is what I keep saying. We have no direction as a franchise anymore it seems. I have no idea what we are doing and more importantly, the coaching staff doesn't seem to either.

Could it be because Pop is absent? I'm not sure about that because Im sure he is communicating with the team from a distance. Are we shopping guys by showcasing them? No, its 2025. If there is a GM in this league that doesnt know about our players and would fall for a 3 game showcase he should be fired today.

Castle basically being benched but Champagnie can literally lose us a game all by himself but still log high minutes makes zero sense......
(although he only played 11 minutes last night) THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!

If we are going to lose anyway, why not do it with Castle and see what we have?

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 4:45 pm
by dckingsfan
Fundamentals21 wrote:...We seem to be looking into a DeAron Fox deal, I wonder if we acquire a star...

That would be a good trade if you can make it, IMO. I would think Castle next to Fox would be a darn good backcourt.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2024 7:11 pm
by G R E Y
imagump1313 wrote:
Rustyman wrote:
G R E Y wrote:Feels like Dev and Tre have been featured more of late...


I don't like overreacting but I do think that for the betterment of the team, one of them has to go at the trading deadline for a more reliable scorer. Blake can takeover the 3rd PG role and Castle can be confirmed as the backup PG.


G R E Y wrote:We may be losing the chance to find out what with 8 minutes and 0-1 scoring chances even though he's shown BBIQ, dogged D, and great initiative to drive. Makes no sense...


This is what I keep saying. We have no direction as a franchise anymore it seems. I have no idea what we are doing and more importantly, the coaching staff doesn't seem to either.

Could it be because Pop is absent? I'm not sure about that because Im sure he is communicating with the team from a distance. Are we shopping guys by showcasing them? No, its 2025. If there is a GM in this league that doesnt know about our players and would fall for a 3 game showcase he should be fired today.

Castle basically being benched but Champagnie can literally lose us a game all by himself but still log high minutes makes zero sense......
(although he only played 11 minutes last night) THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!

If we are going to lose anyway, why not do it with Castle and see what we have?

I think two or three things can be happening in the short term without it being regressed to FO that doesn't know what it's doing.

Ever since we got our full team healthy, Mitch Johnson has seemed intent on **** around with rotations and lineups even though what we were previously doing was working.

I even get reinserting Dev and Sochan into the starting group in favour or Castle who has started to struggle, and Julian who is and should be cooking from the bench.

But it went beyond that. It went to very apparently unsuccessful small ball that has cost us three of four games, and I include the last one because we once again got throttled on the boards, on points in the paint, and on second chance points. Collins and Bassey played, but 7 and 5 minutes. Collins proved to somehow look worse than I remember, proving Mitch right, but Bassey looked great, proving Mitch wrong.

Meanwhile Mamu and his 43% from 3 continue to be spectators, Blake and his good speed and man D sit as well, and for some mystifying reason, despite being praised to high heaven by Mitch himself, Castle's minutes have declined and his strengths have been woefully underutilized.

This last part is what stands out as the common denominator amongst the recent swath of changes, as is Mitch being given reins to show what he can do.

Frankly too much of this is pointing to him and attempts at reinventing the wheel. We are a D first identity team that relies on its bench to balance and keep well rested starters yet three good to very good defenders in Bassey, Blake, and Castle barely played. And starters were all in mid to high 30s minutes yesterday, including a guy who is older than the interim coach and a guy who shines but could use some rest. We looked fatigued by the physicality and not enough Spurs bore the brunt of it for the sake of the whole being less affected.

We are a team that passes the ball well yet we had only 25 assists yesterday and barely anyone beyond CP3 registered one; Dev and 4 and no other Spur had more than 2. Nets game - 26 assists with Tre leading the team with 6; Knicks, 33 assists,with Tre leading the team with 9; 76ers, 24 assists with CP3 team high 8. So like in 3 of the last 4 games, we've heavily GONE AWAY FROM OUR CORE TEAM IDENTITY AS A D-ORIENTED, GOOD TO GREAT PASSING TEAM.

Mitch has tried bombing away from 3; has tried ISO Wemby ball; has tried small ball; has tried faster pace (a reason given for small ball); NONE HAVE WORKED. And in the meantime he has taken us away from our bread and butter identity that is D-based, team-first O game. Of course Wemby is the star and will get most shots, but how we navigate the game around him and how we involve others (or not) to use our best strengths is really missing the mark.

We don't have the 3s shooting like the Cs or the off ball movement and quick sets to be able to go small ball to try to be GSW and get away with it. And we're not the **** NYK playing starters too heavy minutes.

This is the thing. We are not getting away with anything
As gump said, we are getting the results we deserve but we frankly deserve better than to be in a mid season experiment taking guys away from roles and strengths getting benched.

I hope I am wrong but a lot of this smacks of trying to hard and too obviously to curry favour with Wemby. Continuing to take shots with him pregame, giving him free reign over any decision (like four missed 3s in a row when we could and should have run a set), like limiting and shuffling around the rotations and lineups to pressure the FO into getting more help for Wemby. Something is just off here with this roster experiment.

Like when Pop was coaching he loved Castle and coached him through mistakes. Castle started with others out and shined. I have a hard time believing that Castle would get afterthought minutes with Pop, even if he was moved to the bench. Pop loves his two bigs lineups, so not playing any behind the starters is not something I recall him pulling. We had small ball Keldon at the 4 as a last resort during the bubble, (I forget who our PF was but he got injured) but we still had LMA at the 5. Maybe LMA got hurt? And we had Jakob? I forget, but anyway, that was a last resort type of thing, not a first choice.

My sense is that Pop gives notes like what's with all the TOs but also is consistent in telling people to be who they are. To that end Mitch has the reins until Pop returns and in doing so is trying to see what else we've got beyond the rotations and schemes Pop likes. But here's the thing: Pop caters style of play to team strengths, he doesn't shoehorn a style onto players like, say, when Jackson insisted on triangle O in his stint with the Knicks.

This is a short term experiment but we are clearly not utilizing our strengths and where I do agree with gump is that we are starting to look directionless - if we are trying to win, why go away from what has shown to work previously? If we are not trying to win why not develop Castle like we're known to do? If we are trying to win why have Sochan out there on the perimeter taking a last shot 3 when he's barely in the 20s % for the season or why have Julian out there on D late in games?

This experimenting is all Mitch being given a loooong rope. It has his imprint all over it and he's being evaluated on his choices. If anything, those choices are revealing and telling. And there will be a lot of teaching there, too, I think. Not quite up to the task in terms of running a team. He has Pop to fall back on and whose backing supports him. I can't imagine an FO being happy with a new young coach coming in and trying these experiments. We're neither playing better nor winning nor developing while getting whooped in categories we used to compete in while going away from good D and our team oriented game.

I can't wait for Pop to return and take the reins back. Good coaching matters, especially with a young team with roster holes to fill and with individual strengths to weave together.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Thu Jan 2, 2025 11:56 pm
by Rustyman
Good thought out post.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Fri Jan 3, 2025 12:02 am
by Rustyman
I think you are right in the Mitch is trying too many things all at once. The Spurs was, is an always should be a team based on great defence, great passing and utilising their stars to maximise their strength's without overcompensating at the cost of the team.

I mean, Timmy was the best player on the team for a number of years without averaging 20 points.

Victor is a different kind of player and I think he should be averaging closer to 30 points a game, however, he should never be taking and missing 4 threes in the last couple of minutes of a close game. He should be forced to split than into high probability drives and high value threes.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2025 7:31 pm
by ValvPiti
Only watching highligts and not really catching full games, but man, just how good is Castle right now? And how good will he be? His hesitation is beyond lethal.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2025 5:44 pm
by ValvPiti
ValvPiti wrote:Only watching highligts and not really catching full games, but man, just how good is Castle right now? And how good will he be? His hesitation is beyond lethal.

Fox is now out, so Steph will have a full month to showcase himself basically as a 1st/2nd option. Looking forward to it, but would still appreciate some more activity on this forum! :D What do you guys see day in and day out form Castle?.. And whats his outlook next season?

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2025 6:48 pm
by G R E Y
ValvPiti wrote:
ValvPiti wrote:Only watching highligts and not really catching full games, but man, just how good is Castle right now? And how good will he be? His hesitation is beyond lethal.

Fox is now out, so Steph will have a full month to showcase himself basically as a 1st/2nd option. Looking forward to it, but would still appreciate some more activity on this forum! :D What do you guys see day in and day out form Castle?.. And whats his outlook next season?

Looks like vets are getting fewer minutes and shots and that that's a choice to let the youth who will be here next season onwards expand their reps and games.

To that end, Steph needs to work on his efficiency, finishing ability, and craft. By finishing ability I mean good touch around the rim, fundamentals off glass, not just throwing it up there. By craft I mean a variety of shots ie/ teardrop, middy, floater, higher arc and earlier release versus bigger defenders, etc.

These will come. The 3 needs improving as well although the percentages have been improving month to month and on increasing attempts.

D and intensity and things you can't teach are all there. Love him.

Re: How good is Steph Castle?

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2025 7:47 pm
by G R E Y
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