Spurs have too many bigs

[tbdog]

The Spurs team is deep at nearly every position this season. The only exception is the pg position, where Hill is still a question mark if he can play the point at a championship backup level. But the Spurs have 7 big men, and usually you only use 4 big's in a rotation. With TD, Dyes, and Blair looking like the 3 main bigs in rotation, there is Ratliff, Bonner, Haislip, and Mahinmi fighting for the last big in rotation - with two of those four most defiantly be on the inactive list.

The purpose of this thread is discuss who is going to be that fourth big in the rotation at the beginning if the season - and, of course, what reasonable moves can we make to get rid of one of our bigs and improve in other areas.

Let's break down what these four other players provide.

Ratliff can provide a solid 10-15mins at about 40-50 games this season. He is a offensive liability but an outstanding shot blocker. However, he is old and slow and most likely will not play alongside TD to avoid being ripped apart in pick and roles.
* IMO* Ratliff will be on the active list for depth only - when the Spurs need size to deal with bigger teams. He can provide with a short time, rim protection and rebounding.

Mahinmi is long, athletic, but weak. He has a very raw offensive game and will rely on hustle and offensive rebounds to stay in a rotation. It is said that he has a decent rebounding and shot blocking game because of his athleticism and length. He is, however, not only raw offensively but also defensively. During the summer league he average 6 fouls a game in 27 mins. He had a somewhat productive summer, avg 10points, 7rebs, 2blks, while shooting at 50% and 81% at the line. He is only recently getting into game shape since being injured all year. We can only hope that he can improve. Remember, he is a prospect.
*IMO* He will be battling Ratliff for the role at the depth position. Both of them wont be active at the same time, and most likely Mahinmi is not ready. If that is the case, maybe another season in the D League will most likely occur.

Bonner - we know what he provides. Long range shooting at a ridiculous percentages. Great hustle but a major defensive liability and a poor rebounder. He avg 23 mins a game to only snatch 5 rebs a game, where only three times did he clock over 10 + rebs. Because of his new role, where he started, Bonner was used strictly to space the floor with TD inside. However, during the playoffs, he shot a terrible 21% and only totaled 15pnts and 16rebs in 100mins of game time.
*IMO* Its a tough one. I think he will he shipped off somewhere else.

Haislip is a guy I don't know much about - in fact, the majority of us don't know what he can provide. I know almost nothing about the guy or what he can provide. If someone can share some light on him, that would be great. However, there was a reason why it was one of the first Spurs moves in the offseason. He obviously brings something that they like.

There has been a lot of talk about a possible trading block involving Bonner, Finley and/or, Mason. I have a serious problem with that. Firstly, Mason and Finley give us plenty of depth in the guard position, and Finley especially at the three position - where, if Udoka doesn't resign, we don't have anyone else backing him up. The reports suggest that Hairston can fill in that role. Also, all three of those players are our best outside shooters. If Finley or Mason were to be shipped out with Bonner, there is no doubt in my mind that we must receive a dead-eye 3 point shooter in return, that not only is productive, but is worthy of at least 20mins a game and not a defensive liability.

*IMO* I would love to see Spurs try and get Earl Watson or Ollie. Who seems both can suit the Spurs at a limited price. I still believe that the Spurs need to make a trade that would ship out a big to help improve their point of three position.

Thoughts?

[Marc]

I think Spurs have too many PFs and no legit Starting Center.

I think Booner + Mahinmi should be traded for a capable center.

[Donald Kaufman]

You can never have too much talent. Unless you're the Blazers, circa 2001.

[co_laper]

Too many PFs? Heck.. we don't have a Center.

We have a lot of bigs, but they don't make a strong group.

Mahinmi, Blair, and Haislip are all unproven. I expect Blair to be a contributor off the bench, but I sure don't expect more than one out of those 3 players to be regular contributors this season.

I think Pop has always preferred veterans. I believe at the start of the season, we'll see Blair getting regular minutes, but unless he wows us, I think Pop plays Duncan, McDyess, Bonner, and Ratliff by the end of the season.

As far as trading Bonner, I think that's really unlikely. Right now, only 2 guys deserve to play. Duncan and McDyess. the other 5 guys, if I have to rate who deserve to get some minutes, it's Bonner and Blair, and then followed by Ratliff, Mahinmi, and Haislip.

The good thing about our bigs right now is that Pop can experiment offensively. Bonner gives us the 3 point bombing. McDyess gives us our midrange shooter. Haislip gives us athleticism. Blair gives us power downlow. Ratliff gives us nothing offensively but Ratliff is our best shotblocker. Mahinmi gives us... something.. I just don't know yet.

[tbdog]

^ And that is my point. We have too many bigs. Someone has to go. Also, I still don't know why the Spurs signed Haislip. He was signed way before Dyes was.

[Donald Kaufman]

Insurance? McDyess is no spring chicken. Blair has a history of knee trouble. TD has had plantar fasciitis and ankle issues, not to mention will be 33 when the playoffs start.

[SApuro_]

Insurance and chemistry is why we are carrying so many bigs. Plus honestly who would we trade for? Right now there is no immediate need pressing. Sure we could use a 3rd PG but Manu could fill that void in a pinch.

The spurs will see how this roster holds up and then make a necessary trade if something arises. Everyone wants to get rid of Bonner but he's the only one that has played in our system before. You can count Mahimni too but he hasn't proven all that much.

[Sedale Threatt]

I think Spurs have too many PFs and no legit Starting Center.

I think Booner + Mahinmi should be traded for a capable center.

No starting center? Tim Duncan as PF has been nothing but window dressing and semantics. He's one of the top five or six 7-footers to ever play the game. You can't get any more legit than that.

[Marc]

So, who is the backup? Of course, i know Duncan can play center but usually he starts at pf.

I would rather have another legit center than tons of pfs and Duncan at full-time center.

As i said in my previous message, I think Spurs should explore a trade involving Booner and Mahinmi and maybe Splitter's s rights. God knows when he will come over if he ever does.

[TAI8]

I disagree, you can never have too many bigs.

[Marc]

We are talking about too many PFs...

[TAI8]

I didn't have enough time to read through the entire post so I posted in accordance to the title. I'm sure either Ratliff or Haislip can play some C. The C position is so weak these days that it is practically interchangeable with PF. Besides if the FO doesn't make any more moves then Duncan can play full-time C for 34+ minutes with the aforementioned filling in for the rest.

[Donald Kaufman]

We are talking about too many PFs...

You mean guys that are listed as PF. Duncan can and does play C, and I'm sure Dice can fill that role as well against some teams.

I for one am glad to have so many options. It's a luxury we have not had in years.

[tbdog]

If we go on the fact that the Spurs will have a 4 big rotation, who are they? Who will be the 5th big for depth insurance? And who are the two bigs who will be on the inactive list starting the season?

[co_laper]

I don't know about start of season. I think it depends on what happens in training camp. But I think by the end of season, Mahinmi and Haislip will be on the inactive list.

[Marc]

I want Spurs to go after Scola. I know i said Spurs need a center but Scola would be a perfect fit.

Booner + Mahinmi + Splitter's rights for Scola

Scola is expiring and Booner is expiring. The deal helps Rockets to rebuild and maybe we could add something else but i think it is not a bad trade idea...

[pickIBL]

too many bigs? please the Spurs depth with bigs is a very good thing. If anything it might allow the vets to rest... and if an injury comes along... depth comes in handy.

Blair, Bonner, Duncan, Haislip, Mahinmi, McDyess, Ratliff

Duncan will be one of the starters out of that group. The other starter is up in the air. I could see Pop bringing Dice off the bench. I really think the other spot is wide open. I'd probably try them all out during preseason and see what fits. If Blair isn't in the rotation I could see him going down to the Toros... just because he is a rookie... but he could break into the rotation too. I don't see Ratliff starting. Bonner is certainly in the discussion. Haislip has blown up as a player in Europe. Mahinmi has shown a lot of talent in the D-Leauge in the past (had some foul trouble in the SL).

If Mahinmi can stay healthy I'd be looking at him and Haislip for that slot. Haislip if given minutes could surprise you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyiK5nf95Cs&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPp0DZj3 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aXqwUXy ... re=related

[zigzagzig]

not a spurs fan, actually a toronto raptors fan, but i'm gonna throw it out there since marcus haislip is easily my favourite player in the world outside of the NBA before this OS.

i had a write up of his game & what i know about him on another forum, and here it is:

"he was very hyped coming out his draft year(2002) but failed expectation largely. stromile swift syndrome, all the talent & ability but lathargic. fast forward to today, for a pretty slight built rangy lean guy, he could bench press 400lbs his last year at Tennessee(01) & you know he's improved his strength since then. he has about a 36+ inch vertical for a legit 6'10 player. pretty spectacular to pair with his wingspan.

went over to europe and honed his skills. he's a very smart offensive player now, day & night compared to his first stint in the NBA, he likes to ISO on big men from behind the arc and take them off the dribble from the perimeter. he has explosive first step & good anticipation skills on D for steals & blocking shots. he will switch on guards & block their perimeter shots, which surprises them that he can move his feet & close out so quickly.

since going to europe, he developed a pretty good three point shot, which he likes to take, but he mixes up well with his at the basket game, isnt in love with his jumper which is very effective for a PF. again for a PF he posseses an above-average handle, & he has pretty decent court vision, and can deliver crisp passes in traffic.

i really think he will force himself into the starting lineup in San Antonio if McDyess takes a bench role. i could see him starting next to Timmy D @ PF to spread the floor & bring some athleticism to the starting core or being the 6th man, Do-It-All type.

i think his game as is now, is perfectly suited for the NBA, with alot more spacing & speed. he is almost a perfect fit IMO with fast break players like TP, Gino & R.Jeff.

so all in all, very good all-around player, and a very versatile defender, from guards to forwards & the occasional smaller NBA center. for the past 3-4 seasons, he's been the most exciting player in the european leagues which will also help with SA's perceived lack of 'flash'.

i wouldn't say nobody wanted him, he was just offered lucrative contracts in Europe which kept him there. he was very successful overseas, & i think with his maturity now, and some Bank in his pocket, he decided it was time to come back to the NBA at a cheaper price. his contract expire with his spanish club(which was routinely top 4 euro-league team) and SA is a good fit, perennial contender.

if i had to speak on any area of his game i'd say could stand to improve, i'd lean towards his rebounding. TD should help Marcus in this area. he is a good offensive rebounder, but defensively looks disinterested sometimes & doesnt make a great effort to crash those boards.

i think he'll impress this coming season & show everybody why he's been my favourite player outside of the NBA for the past half-decade."

i've watched him in milwaukee, indiana, on the toronto raptors/denver nuggets summer league teams & over in spain.

[pickIBL]

damn wasn't exactly expecting anyone to agree with my suggestion that Haislip could... well even should start for the title contending Spurs. Go figure... the evaluation of him is pretty on the mark actually.

[Blame Rasho]

The thing is that we have too many unproven players as bigs... we have to ride it out and hope that one of our young players becomes a rotation player come May.