Couldn't we have offered more for MAYO?

[wiff]

Didn't Jeff Green make the All-Rookie team? He was drafted 5th and there are only five guys on the Rookie team so I'd say for at least this past year his draft postition was warranted.

I'm very content with Westbrook. I wouldn't have touched Kevin Love with a ten foot pole. For me the guy just screams bust.

Mayo is obviously very talented but honestly I have some serious doubts about who the guy surrounds himself with.

I liked Bayless quite a bit but obviously Presti's focus is defense and I have no problem with that. Look at the teams that win rings. Boston, Spurs, Detroit, all teams who play serious D.

I'm glad Presti had the balls to simply pick his guy at #4 even though he could take some heat. If he's the guy you want and you are worried he might not be there at #7 do you really need another Damien Wilkins as a bonus? Take the guy you want and be done with it.

Bayless is the sexier pick but look at the Bobcats. They took DJ Augustin over Bayless as well. Apparently Bayless's stock dropped for some reason, maybe he should have worked out for a few more teams? What's to say Bayless isn't the next Dwuan Wagner? There is always a risk with whoever you draft.

Sure Westbrook might not be able to grasp the offensive side of the ball right away, but you know what doesn't have off nights? Defense. Defense doesn't get hot or cold like a shooter. That's why defense wins championships.

Boston played HORRIBLY on offense in one of the games the Lakers won, but they we still in the game late because of defense.

I don't think Durant is going to be covering many PG's unless they are slower than the opposing SG. For example Barron Davis and Monta Ellis.

But at least you know Westbrook is going to be slowing down the opposing PG.

I'll buy Durant is locked into the SG spot this year, but I don't see him playing the SG long term unless the kid can't put weight on. Still I don't think you can really "watse" Durants talent. You just need to put him on the floor for 38 minutes.

What you make all-rookie team means your going to be an all-star? The majority of even all-rookie team players don't come close to being all-star players. All-rookie teams are completely based on stats. Stats are only accumulated when your put in situations where you are allowed to play a lot. Plus your in a situation that your a major part of the offense. Perhaps a bigger part of the offense than you likely deserve.

Green making all-rookie is nice but you said Love screams bust. Green screams role player at best. He may have bust potential as a first team all-nba. He may be a guy that played on a real bad team that would not have played on a better team. Green had one of the worst offensive ratings in the league last year. His offensive rating was 94. The league average is 105. Green PER was 9.9. Are you kidding me. That would put as the 25th most productive rookie. His draft position is warranted? Yet he was third in minutes played. Thats the reality of rookie awards. Although none of the bad rookies in PER were close to minutes played as Green. The ones that did play a lot were on horrible teams. Pretty much meaning he was not good enough to play on any decent team. Whats scary is these numbers came as a 4th and 5th option on a bad team.

Now I'm going to give you a stat that should really end any idea that Green can ever be an all-star. This stat will show that if he does become an all-star he will likely do something that no player in the history of the league has done. I think it was John Hollinger who had this stat and had more depth into this.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... =&offset=0

Those are the players in the history of the league that have had a PER under 10 in their rookie season and played at least 500 minutes. 349 players and I can only see 1 all-star. Kevin Duckworth made the all-star team a couple of times but did not come close to really having all-star numbers. Really he more like Jamaal Magloire that a bonafid all-star. No player that has played 2000 minutes and had a PER under 10 have ever made the all-star team. In essence Jeff Green has to do something that has never been done. I would consider just about every one of those players on that list a pretty bad player.

Westbrook defense is fine but its ridiculous to take a player top 5 based on defense. The Sonics could sign Kenyon Dooling who a Westbrook clone for the MLE. Defense is just as much about coaching as individuals. Remember Earl Watson use to be a good defensive player. If you didn't notice that was Delonte West and Wally Z playing some of the best defense in the playoffs with the Cavs.

How does Love scream bust. What because he not an amazing runner and jumper? Love is as skilled a player that I've seen as a freshman ever. EVER. Love is as fundamentally sound as any player I've seen as a freshman. I will say this right now. Kevin Love comes into the league as one of the 5 most fundamentally sound big men in the league as a rookie. This kid has great gifts. Vision as good as any PG in this draft. Amazing hands. Soft touch. Rebounds better than Nick Collison. Extremely strong. I heard one player that worked out with him and worked out with Oden a year ago say that Love was the most difficult player to move that he ever played against.

Now I have a problem passing on Love but I can accept that. I have a problem passing on Love for a no doubt role player. I could understand if you took Lopez, Bayless, perhaps even Gordon. Those players have upside. What is the best you could envision Westbrook being. I would say Rondo with less passing. I would say Kenyon Dooling with more passing perhaps. IMO Westbrook has to have the single lowest upside of a top 4 pick in the history of the league. Its debatable if Westbrook is better than Mario Chalmers. At the end of the year I had the two rated about the same. Think about this. Rose goes number 1 and you hit he could compare to Chris Paul, Deron Williams. Beasley goes second and if you hit he could compare to Charles Barkley. Mayo goes 3 and if he compares he should atleast be more athletic Ray Allen or short version Kobe. Westbrook a better version Kenyon Dooling. Love a smaller version Tim Duncan. Which one of these doesn't fit.

Those that want to see the 5 UCLA tournament games you can go right here.

http://www.ncaasports.com/mmod/player/

Perhaps you see something that tell you that Westbrook is a better player than Love.

Can you point me to where I said since Jeff Green made the rookie team that he would be an All-Star?

Please don't put words in my mouth. Green was drafted 5th and made the all rookie team where 5 guys make the team. Sure there were rookies who were on better teams who had less minutes and had better PERS but that doesn't mean if they played on the Sonics with absolutely no help that they would have done any better than Green did.

A lot of rookies get pulled when they start to struggle. The Sonics as much as Green may have struggled at points didn't have the luxury of having a better player than Green to substitue for him. Wilkins had one 42 point game and then spiralled down to rec league player. Green had to take his lumps, but from Feb on Green averaged
13pts
5.5 rebs

Not amazing but not a bad start for a rookie either.

And yes I see Love as a bust because quite simply he isn't the best runner or jumper. Those two things are pretty important. Plus I have a feeling his weight is going to catch up with him.

I'm glad Love is one of the best skilled players you have ever seen. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Let's just say I would have passed on Love too because what I see is a guy who is going to struggle at the next level.

[dre_1614]

Didn't Jeff Green make the All-Rookie team? He was drafted 5th and there are only five guys on the Rookie team so I'd say for at least this past year his draft postition was warranted.

I'm very content with Westbrook. I wouldn't have touched Kevin Love with a ten foot pole. For me the guy just screams bust.

Mayo is obviously very talented but honestly I have some serious doubts about who the guy surrounds himself with.

I liked Bayless quite a bit but obviously Presti's focus is defense and I have no problem with that. Look at the teams that win rings. Boston, Spurs, Detroit, all teams who play serious D.

I'm glad Presti had the balls to simply pick his guy at #4 even though he could take some heat. If he's the guy you want and you are worried he might not be there at #7 do you really need another Damien Wilkins as a bonus? Take the guy you want and be done with it.

Bayless is the sexier pick but look at the Bobcats. They took DJ Augustin over Bayless as well. Apparently Bayless's stock dropped for some reason, maybe he should have worked out for a few more teams? What's to say Bayless isn't the next Dwuan Wagner? There is always a risk with whoever you draft.

Sure Westbrook might not be able to grasp the offensive side of the ball right away, but you know what doesn't have off nights? Defense. Defense doesn't get hot or cold like a shooter. That's why defense wins championships.

Boston played HORRIBLY on offense in one of the games the Lakers won, but they we still in the game late because of defense.

I don't think Durant is going to be covering many PG's unless they are slower than the opposing SG. For example Barron Davis and Monta Ellis.

But at least you know Westbrook is going to be slowing down the opposing PG.

I'll buy Durant is locked into the SG spot this year, but I don't see him playing the SG long term unless the kid can't put weight on. Still I don't think you can really "watse" Durants talent. You just need to put him on the floor for 38 minutes.

What you make all-rookie team means your going to be an all-star? The majority of even all-rookie team players don't come close to being all-star players. All-rookie teams are completely based on stats. Stats are only accumulated when your put in situations where you are allowed to play a lot. Plus your in a situation that your a major part of the offense. Perhaps a bigger part of the offense than you likely deserve.

Green making all-rookie is nice but you said Love screams bust. Green screams role player at best. He may have bust potential as a first team all-nba. He may be a guy that played on a real bad team that would not have played on a better team. Green had one of the worst offensive ratings in the league last year. His offensive rating was 94. The league average is 105. Green PER was 9.9. Are you kidding me. That would put as the 25th most productive rookie. His draft position is warranted? Yet he was third in minutes played. Thats the reality of rookie awards. Although none of the bad rookies in PER were close to minutes played as Green. The ones that did play a lot were on horrible teams. Pretty much meaning he was not good enough to play on any decent team. Whats scary is these numbers came as a 4th and 5th option on a bad team.

Now I'm going to give you a stat that should really end any idea that Green can ever be an all-star. This stat will show that if he does become an all-star he will likely do something that no player in the history of the league has done. I think it was John Hollinger who had this stat and had more depth into this.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... =&offset=0

Those are the players in the history of the league that have had a PER under 10 in their rookie season and played at least 500 minutes. 349 players and I can only see 1 all-star. Kevin Duckworth made the all-star team a couple of times but did not come close to really having all-star numbers. Really he more like Jamaal Magloire that a bonafid all-star. No player that has played 2000 minutes and had a PER under 10 have ever made the all-star team. In essence Jeff Green has to do something that has never been done. I would consider just about every one of those players on that list a pretty bad player.

Westbrook defense is fine but its ridiculous to take a player top 5 based on defense. The Sonics could sign Kenyon Dooling who a Westbrook clone for the MLE. Defense is just as much about coaching as individuals. Remember Earl Watson use to be a good defensive player. If you didn't notice that was Delonte West and Wally Z playing some of the best defense in the playoffs with the Cavs.

How does Love scream bust. What because he not an amazing runner and jumper? Love is as skilled a player that I've seen as a freshman ever. EVER. Love is as fundamentally sound as any player I've seen as a freshman. I will say this right now. Kevin Love comes into the league as one of the 5 most fundamentally sound big men in the league as a rookie. This kid has great gifts. Vision as good as any PG in this draft. Amazing hands. Soft touch. Rebounds better than Nick Collison. Extremely strong. I heard one player that worked out with him and worked out with Oden a year ago say that Love was the most difficult player to move that he ever played against.

Now I have a problem passing on Love but I can accept that. I have a problem passing on Love for a no doubt role player. I could understand if you took Lopez, Bayless, perhaps even Gordon. Those players have upside. What is the best you could envision Westbrook being. I would say Rondo with less passing. I would say Kenyon Dooling with more passing perhaps. IMO Westbrook has to have the single lowest upside of a top 4 pick in the history of the league. Its debatable if Westbrook is better than Mario Chalmers. At the end of the year I had the two rated about the same. Think about this. Rose goes number 1 and you hit he could compare to Chris Paul, Deron Williams. Beasley goes second and if you hit he could compare to Charles Barkley. Mayo goes 3 and if he compares he should atleast be more athletic Ray Allen or short version Kobe. Westbrook a better version Kenyon Dooling. Love a smaller version Tim Duncan. Which one of these doesn't fit.

Those that want to see the 5 UCLA tournament games you can go right here.

http://www.ncaasports.com/mmod/player/

Perhaps you see something that tell you that Westbrook is a better player than Love.

I highly doubt you are a Seattle fan, and please get off Love's jock its sickening

[richboy]

Didn't Jeff Green make the All-Rookie team? He was drafted 5th and there are only five guys on the Rookie team so I'd say for at least this past year his draft postition was warranted.

I'm very content with Westbrook. I wouldn't have touched Kevin Love with a ten foot pole. For me the guy just screams bust.

Mayo is obviously very talented but honestly I have some serious doubts about who the guy surrounds himself with.

I liked Bayless quite a bit but obviously Presti's focus is defense and I have no problem with that. Look at the teams that win rings. Boston, Spurs, Detroit, all teams who play serious D.

I'm glad Presti had the balls to simply pick his guy at #4 even though he could take some heat. If he's the guy you want and you are worried he might not be there at #7 do you really need another Damien Wilkins as a bonus? Take the guy you want and be done with it.

Bayless is the sexier pick but look at the Bobcats. They took DJ Augustin over Bayless as well. Apparently Bayless's stock dropped for some reason, maybe he should have worked out for a few more teams? What's to say Bayless isn't the next Dwuan Wagner? There is always a risk with whoever you draft.

Sure Westbrook might not be able to grasp the offensive side of the ball right away, but you know what doesn't have off nights? Defense. Defense doesn't get hot or cold like a shooter. That's why defense wins championships.

Boston played HORRIBLY on offense in one of the games the Lakers won, but they we still in the game late because of defense.

I don't think Durant is going to be covering many PG's unless they are slower than the opposing SG. For example Barron Davis and Monta Ellis.

But at least you know Westbrook is going to be slowing down the opposing PG.

I'll buy Durant is locked into the SG spot this year, but I don't see him playing the SG long term unless the kid can't put weight on. Still I don't think you can really "watse" Durants talent. You just need to put him on the floor for 38 minutes.

What you make all-rookie team means your going to be an all-star? The majority of even all-rookie team players don't come close to being all-star players. All-rookie teams are completely based on stats. Stats are only accumulated when your put in situations where you are allowed to play a lot. Plus your in a situation that your a major part of the offense. Perhaps a bigger part of the offense than you likely deserve.

Green making all-rookie is nice but you said Love screams bust. Green screams role player at best. He may have bust potential as a first team all-nba. He may be a guy that played on a real bad team that would not have played on a better team. Green had one of the worst offensive ratings in the league last year. His offensive rating was 94. The league average is 105. Green PER was 9.9. Are you kidding me. That would put as the 25th most productive rookie. His draft position is warranted? Yet he was third in minutes played. Thats the reality of rookie awards. Although none of the bad rookies in PER were close to minutes played as Green. The ones that did play a lot were on horrible teams. Pretty much meaning he was not good enough to play on any decent team. Whats scary is these numbers came as a 4th and 5th option on a bad team.

Now I'm going to give you a stat that should really end any idea that Green can ever be an all-star. This stat will show that if he does become an all-star he will likely do something that no player in the history of the league has done. I think it was John Hollinger who had this stat and had more depth into this.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... =&offset=0

Those are the players in the history of the league that have had a PER under 10 in their rookie season and played at least 500 minutes. 349 players and I can only see 1 all-star. Kevin Duckworth made the all-star team a couple of times but did not come close to really having all-star numbers. Really he more like Jamaal Magloire that a bonafid all-star. No player that has played 2000 minutes and had a PER under 10 have ever made the all-star team. In essence Jeff Green has to do something that has never been done. I would consider just about every one of those players on that list a pretty bad player.

Westbrook defense is fine but its ridiculous to take a player top 5 based on defense. The Sonics could sign Kenyon Dooling who a Westbrook clone for the MLE. Defense is just as much about coaching as individuals. Remember Earl Watson use to be a good defensive player. If you didn't notice that was Delonte West and Wally Z playing some of the best defense in the playoffs with the Cavs.

How does Love scream bust. What because he not an amazing runner and jumper? Love is as skilled a player that I've seen as a freshman ever. EVER. Love is as fundamentally sound as any player I've seen as a freshman. I will say this right now. Kevin Love comes into the league as one of the 5 most fundamentally sound big men in the league as a rookie. This kid has great gifts. Vision as good as any PG in this draft. Amazing hands. Soft touch. Rebounds better than Nick Collison. Extremely strong. I heard one player that worked out with him and worked out with Oden a year ago say that Love was the most difficult player to move that he ever played against.

Now I have a problem passing on Love but I can accept that. I have a problem passing on Love for a no doubt role player. I could understand if you took Lopez, Bayless, perhaps even Gordon. Those players have upside. What is the best you could envision Westbrook being. I would say Rondo with less passing. I would say Kenyon Dooling with more passing perhaps. IMO Westbrook has to have the single lowest upside of a top 4 pick in the history of the league. Its debatable if Westbrook is better than Mario Chalmers. At the end of the year I had the two rated about the same. Think about this. Rose goes number 1 and you hit he could compare to Chris Paul, Deron Williams. Beasley goes second and if you hit he could compare to Charles Barkley. Mayo goes 3 and if he compares he should atleast be more athletic Ray Allen or short version Kobe. Westbrook a better version Kenyon Dooling. Love a smaller version Tim Duncan. Which one of these doesn't fit.

Those that want to see the 5 UCLA tournament games you can go right here.

http://www.ncaasports.com/mmod/player/

Perhaps you see something that tell you that Westbrook is a better player than Love.

Can you point me to where I said since Jeff Green made the rookie team that he would be an All-Star?

Please don't put words in my mouth. Green was drafted 5th and made the all rookie team where 5 guys make the team. Sure there were rookies who were on better teams who had less minutes and had better PERS but that doesn't mean if they played on the Sonics with absolutely no help that they would have done any better than Green did.

A lot of rookies get pulled when they start to struggle. The Sonics as much as Green may have struggled at points didn't have the luxury of having a better player than Green to substitue for him. Wilkins had one 42 point game and then spiralled down to rec league player. Green had to take his lumps, but from Feb on Green averaged
13pts
5.5 rebs

Not amazing but not a bad start for a rookie either.

And yes I see Love as a bust because quite simply he isn't the best runner or jumper. Those two things are pretty important. Plus I have a feeling his weight is going to catch up with him.

I'm glad Love is one of the best skilled players you have ever seen. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Let's just say I would have passed on Love too because what I see is a guy who is going to struggle at the next level.

Well Love actually lost 20 lbs already. I saw him in Ny and he looked like a totally different guy. He runs and jumps better than Nick Collison. Now add a 3 point shot to Collison and great passing. Not to mention a much better post game.

Love measured a 35 inch vertical. Very solid. Lane agility was 11.17 which was number 1 of all the bigs in the draft and better than a bunch of guards. His 3/4 sprint was just as good as just about any big in the draft. The book on Love isn't he can't move its that it was pretty. You don't average those kind of rebound numbers without the ability to move in the lane and chase rebounds.

In your opinion its not bad. You could make a case that Green is the worst offensive player in the NBA that played over 2000 minutes. He was all rookie not because of his play. It not even like he was close to being top 5 in production. He was all-rookie because he played more minutes than every rookie but 2. Even if you take regular stats you can't find one impressive number. 10 points in almost 30 minutes of play. That's pretty bad on a offensively challenged team. Rebounds, steals, assist, blocks. He doesn't come close to filling a box sheet. I hear he part of the core were building around. I pray not.

What you said about Green applies more to Durant than it does Green. Green was 4th or 5th on the roster in shots per minute. He was not someone that was forced to take shots or be a go 2 player. Durant the number 1 option that is forced to take shots. Forced to be a big part of the offense despite how he was playing.

Can Green and Westbrook become players that can help this team. Yeah I believe both can work themselves into decent role players. Last year I said Green didn't have the talent to warrant his high selection. That trading Ray Allen for someone with no dominate aspects of his game would be a big mistake. That simply put you should be coming away with all-star level talent. Now we draft 4th and we draft another low ceiling role player. We should have a young gore comparable to Portland at this point and we throwing it away.

I highly doubt you are a Seattle fan, and please get off Love's jock its sickening

Your assumption would be wrong. I just don't post on this board about the Sonics much. I think most know by now that I'm a Sonic and Magic fan.

[revprodeji]

I like Westbrook for you guys more than Bayless.

btw, the Seattle-MN trade would have not worked. The Memphis-Minnesota trade only worked because Memphis was willing to give Mike Miller. Minnesota wanted a starting 2/3 if they were going to trade down. Miller fills that. I simply do not see Seattle havin that.