RealGM

Ok so I was thinking about how we could get a legitimate center and pg in this draft (our two biggest concerns) and this is what I came up with:

Chris Wilcox + Donyell Marshall + #24 + #32

for

Jared Jeffries + Quentin Richardson + #6

Why for Seattle: We get the #6 pick to either pick up a guy like B Lopez, D Jordan or Westbrook. Sure we take on bad contracts but we're still looking good on that front.

Why for NY: They get rid of two stupid contracts in exchange for expirings and acquire a guy that D'Antoni has salivated over trading for for years. Also a guy like Donnie Walsh can make those later draft picks work.


What do you guys think?

Last year Presti traded Allen because he believed Green would be an ideal compliment to Durant. Does this draft offer a similar situation?

I wonder if substituting Ridnour for Marshall would help or hurt the value of the scenario in New York's mind?

D'Antoni is also familiar with Richardson and might want to keep his shooting around, a substitution of Malik Rose should also work.

I think it's just way too much money to take on.

Jeffries has 4 more years(3 years + 1 year player option) and Richardson has 3 more years(2 years + 1 year player option) left on their contract.
We'd have to pay them $51 mil(i think even more, because Jeffries has a trade kicker in his contract) over those next 4 years and therefore would kill our financial flexibility just to maybe add another solid rookie.

Also, those two guys are playing a position we don't need any help at, with Durant and Green already being around, and are both liablities as Jeffries can't hit a jumper to save his life and Richardson has quite some problems with his back, which always costs him games during a season.

That's why i wouldn't touch such kind of a trade proposal.

I'd think we'd have better luck if we dropped the #32 and changed Richardson to Curry.

Then I'm not sure if I would do it, but I probably would.

Ok, I rethought the trade with your imput.

How about:

Ridnour or Watson (whichever D'Antoni prefers) + Wilcox + 24

for

Richardson + Rose + 6

NY gets two productive players for two non-productive ones (with bad contracts although Rose's expires at the end of the year), gives up a good prospect for a mediocre one.

NY is less likely to do this maybe?

Instead of those two players could we take on Stephen Marbury's contract for the year after that we'll be free of him and he can teach our young guys about the game in general and killer instinct. A perfect tutor for Jared Bayless.

I think it would take some maneuvering since his contract is positively gigantic.

I'm all for giving up picks and the players you mentioned from the Sonics BUT I'd rather trade for proven players not other high lottery picks who still have question marks.

For example, for Beidrins or Iggy I'd give up anyone not named Durant or Green.

I'm actually open to over paying. Especially since the Sonics have so many picks and pieces they can move that isn't part of the core.

To me it isn't about just getting a Center or a PG it's about getting the right Center or PG.

I'm intrigued with the idea of Curry coming back in the deal because he can score in the post. But he doesn't do anything else. NOTHING ELSE.

But slot him next to Green and Collison to pick up the rebounds and that could a decent front line.

Curry's deal averages out to be around 10 mil for the next three years. But he has a player option after this coming year. If he has an All-Star type year he could want a pay raise or split. But if he sucked then there goes another 20mil over the next two years. Plus the guy tends to be on the Chubby side and has a heart issue.



Look at that guy, it looks like he is waiting for you to throw a donut hole at him.

Anyway back to the original trade idea, I'm willing to take back salary and I'm willing to trade all the parts you mentioned. But I want an established player (with out a heart issue and an eating problem) coming back not a draft pick.

Chris Wilcox could end up being the best player in the trade even over the #6.

Instead of those two players could we take on Stephen Marbury's contract for the year after that we'll be free of him and he can teach our young guys about the game in general and killer instinct. A perfect tutor for Jared Bayless.

Marbury has never been a winner and would be a horrible tutor for anyone.

Seriously what has that guy done in the league besides to take a big pay day and lose.

So what the guy can score but that's all. He is horrible at getting his teammates involved.

First, we are not taking on any long term contracts for unproductive overpaid players. So forget about Jefferies and Richardson. That isn't going to happen. We will stay at 24 and 32 before we do that. Second, you are way undervaluing Wilcox. The guy has a reasonable contract and is a productive low post scorer. If he were in this draft he would be a top 5 pick. You do not need to add alot to any deal with him.

I would offer NY Ridnour and #24 or #32 for #6. They get the PG they need. He is very similiar to TJ Ford, only cheaper. They get either a non guaranteed pick in the second round or a slightly higher pick in round 1. The quality difference isn't going to be much. With their payroll they might prefer #32. NY probably needs to add some cash to the deal to make the numbers work. Two players for one unknown prospect is more than enough.

With the sixth pick in the draft I would take Brook Lopez. None of the other centers are ready to play significant minutes in the NBA. In 2009, we may add another big man. If he is gone then all of the others are two year projects so take your pick.

So I'm liking the idea of a trade. Even a trade with the Knicks. Which I'm thinking should be a lot smaller, not include trying to get their #6 pick & not include C Wilcox.

Anyway, my opinion is grounded in the realization that the Sonics are getting eight (8!) first round picks over a four year period starting last summer. Nine if you count this years #32 pick. And we'e already got N Collison, C Wilcox & J Petro. All of which could be keepers. Well, N Collison for sure. The other two maybe. Remember, while it's possible to keep 15 players, the Sonics & most teams usually keep 14. Only 12 suit up. And usually rotations are nine guys.

And we're not contending next season. We'll be a marginal playoff team in 2009/10 and it's onward and upward from there for many years to come.

So I think the main thing is to not be in a hurry. Otherwise all those picks become liabilities. Not assests. At the most the Sonics can keep probably three rookies on the roster this year.

So in the end, in my opinion, there's three sets of player personnel decisions...

1. Draft

Need to draft a top quality starting PG. Will be done. I'm think it's going to be OJ Mayo. If so, fantastic. If not, J Bayless. Still happy. There should be a good solid role player availabel at #24. Same at #32. But I like the idea of packaging those two together to move down a bit to ensure we get the role player we want. A guy that has eventual starting potential. A player like B Rush or N Batum. The Warriors & Raptors are both good candidates for that type of trade. #43, #50 & #56 are Euro stash all the way. Unless we get incredibly lucky (eg K Weaver at #43, etc)

2. C Wilcox

The writing's on the wall. The only way it's erased is by a serious improvement of his game (eg 16 pts / 10 rbds) due to the addition of a new & much more athletic PG. Idealy, this trade wants to net a young quality center. Second best is a young quality SG. Trade could also include either of those #24 & #32 picks and/or our expirings (D Marshall & A Griffin) or even a PG as E Watson has some value now with his improved play & two year contract.

3. Managing cap space

Either L Ridnour or E Watson should be dealt for an expiring as one of them will get no playing time at all this next season. They both have there strengths & weaknesses. One of them should be able to contribute to some other team this season. The key is getting an expiring as 2009/10 is shaping up to be a great free agent year for the Seattle Sonics. This is where I see that Knicks trade. If they get Danilo Gallinari at #6 they're still wanting a D'Antoni PG. That's L Ridnour. We could be kicking ourselves in a year when he develops into the second coming of S Nash, but whatever. Moving on. The only player I'd realistically want from the Knicks is M Rose. Because he's an expiring. And a solid veteran. Like K Thomas. Another decision has to be made on R Swift. I'm still hoping against hope that he recovers to what he was becoming before the injury. At this point now way does he get $3.6M guaranteed money. But maybe he accepts a non-guaranteed minimum contract to try out. There's going to be a lot of ego involved here. It'll be a good test of Presti's skills.

Just for my own education. I could use help from a capologist.

I know the Sonics are under the cap so if the Sonics were to trade for Marbury how much would they have to give up? And what would their cap look like?



I know the Knicks are looking to cut salary. So would somthing like this work financially even if NY didn't like the package?

Seattle trades Watson or Luke, and Marshall for the #6 pick and Craprbury.

Then the Sonics simply cut him to increase roster spots for draft picks

Yes, that would work. Assuming we renounce our Bird Rights to Swift, Gelable, Elston We'll be at 47 million. The cap will be about 58 million roughly. That means we'll be 11 million under the cap. Marshall makes 6 million, and so do Watsnour. That means after losing both those salaries we'll be under 23 million or so, Marbury makes about 20 million.

However, I think they would rather lose Jeffries + Curry, or Jeffries + Randolph instead of Marbury.

wiff, I'm not claiming to be a capologist, and I've never even played one on tv, but Starbury's getting about $22M next season on an expiring contract.

Seattle is marginally under the cap $4M or so after the draft picks are taken into consideration & assuming R Swift gets no guaranteed money.

The CBA trading rules state each trade needs to match salaries within 25% if over the cap. There's other details but the bottom line is Seattle needs to send about $18M or so to get Crapbuy given their salary situation, what the NBA will probably will set the cap at next season (~$58M?) & the 125% rule.

Watsnour (~$6.3M) & D Marshall ($6.0M) wouldn't be enough. Realistically, for the numbers to work, you'd need to give them C Wilcox ($6.8M) too. But then the Knicks start running into problems with how many guys they can have on their roster.

Good idea theoretically. Too hard to accomplish.

The thing is, we'll be further under the cap if we release the bird rights of others. IE, swift is a 10 million cap hold until we sign him or release his rights..

Given that, since we won't be over the cap we can take on as much as we want. New York cannot take on more then 125% of what they are sending out, which they won't be, they'll be sending out 20 million and taking in about 12.

Unless I'm wrong.

I thought the first round picks also counted against the cap equivalent to their CBA negotiated first year value (ie ~ $5M). But I'm not sure.

But I do know that the salary situation after the trade has to be under the cap as well.

I thought I read somewhere that the Sonics would be just shy of $50mil after the draft assuming no trades are made. We don't yet know the cap but it should be around $57mil, give or take a couple.

I like to throw out names just to see the reaction. Djthesonicsfan mentioned that a young shooting guard for Wilcox may be an option. I know trades within your division aren't common, but I think JR Smith is on the verge of being a teams top two scorer as a starter. He's still very young(came out of highschool), can put up insane scoring numbers given his limited playing time, is solidly built and athletic, and when he wants to is a pretty good defender.

He's had a few issues but my guess is that as he gets a little older he will mature. A sign and trade with the Nuggets using Wilcox would put the Sonics roster at Mayo or Bayless, Smith, Durant, Collison(Green), and whatever center Presti can aquire on draft day by way of trade or draft. That would be a pretty dynamic team.

I know I'll hear all the personal problems arguement about Smith but the guy flat out is a highend starter in the waiting. Quote me on that in a year.

McCants if the Wolves take Mayo? He actually shoots a relatively good percentage and is a pure volume scorer also and I like his head more than Smith.

Downtown wrote:I thought I read somewhere that the Sonics would be just shy of $50mil after the draft assuming no trades are made. We don't yet know the cap but it should be around $57mil, give or take a couple.

I like to throw out names just to see the reaction. Djthesonicsfan mentioned that a young shooting guard for Wilcox may be an option. I know trades within your division aren't common, but I think JR Smith is on the verge of being a teams top two scorer as a starter. He's still very young(came out of highschool), can put up insane scoring numbers given his limited playing time, is solidly built and athletic, and when he wants to is a pretty good defender.

He's had a few issues but my guess is that as he gets a little older he will mature. A sign and trade with the Nuggets using Wilcox would put the Sonics roster at Mayo or Bayless, Smith, Durant, Collison(Green), and whatever center Presti can aquire on draft day by way of trade or draft. That would be a pretty dynamic team.

I know I'll hear all the personal problems arguement about Smith but the guy flat out is a highend starter in the waiting. Quote me on that in a year.

Please no to JR Smith. Yes, I do remember him hitting 5 3's IN A ROW against the Sonics at home in the 06-07 year but he is flat out uncoachable. If he had the right attitude and the right swag I could believe everything you stated about him but I see his characteristics as what stops him from becoming that type of player.

Knick fan here--very confident that we wont be trading pick 6 for luke Ridnour Wilcox or anyone else from the Sonics because they want to keep the pick. Im pretty sure that we will be selecting either Westbrook or Randolph.