Couldn't we have offered more for MAYO?

[S0yb3anB0y]

Wouldn't Wilcox, #4, and the #24 be enough to land mayo? Don't get me wrong, I love Westbrook but I really feel that Mayo has potential to be the best in this year's draft class. I see him as a short version of KOBE.

[S0yb3anB0y]

On a side note, any chance of Grizzlies going to OK City instead of the Sonics? Their team is loaded with youth and raising stars.

[BrockEvil]

perhaps it woulda been enough...but it seemed like mchale was all over love's nuts than he would be with weezy

[revprodeji]

Yea, we still could have got Love if we dealt with you. The difference is with the memphis deal we got rid of all of our bad contracts and brought back the shooting 2/3 we have needed/wanted. MN fans are freaking out right now, but this is a very mature and good deal.

[LarBrd33]

This assumes a lot of things, but the real annoying part is this: Westbrook went too high. The Timberwolves clearly wanted Kevin Love. Sonics could have easily drafted Love and worked a deal for Mayo. And to make things worse, rumor is that Mayo may still be traded to Miami for Beasley.

[McG]

Wouldn't Wilcox, #4, and the #24 be enough to land mayo? Don't get me wrong, I love Westbrook but I really feel that Mayo has potential to be the best in this year's draft class. I see him as a short version of KOBE.

This is exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. Even a Marshall + Griffin + Love for Mayo + Jaric would seem to make more sense for Minny. All Miller will do is push their lotto pick back a few places until his contract expires. At a Seattle trade would have given them immediate cap flexibility.

Does anyone think that we even made a run at a deal? Something had to have been discussed beforehand. I know we drafted Westbrook for defense but I see Mayo as being the #2 perimeter defender in the draft (behind Westbrook) BUT with an offensive game that is and forever will be immensely superior. Doesn't make sense.

[revprodeji]

No it does not. Miller is a local (dakota) kid that can start and fill a serious need. Look at my posts yesterday morning. I mentioned this rumor in its early stages. W/O the cap dumb. (they took Jaric???) We see Miller as a valuable piece.

I like the westbrook pick for you guys. I was chillin with a friend who works in the wolves marketing and I called Westbrook or Lopez for you guys. Bayless will bust. Westbrook is a winner, defender and great attitude.

[djthesonicsfan]

I also think the Wolves made out well. McHale got (a) the prospect he wanted, (b) Miller as a free bonus & (c) dumped a crappier contract than he had to take back.

The OJ Mayo's not done being traded conspiracy theory is interesting, but I don't see it. Memphis wound up with a decent PF draft pick in Darrell Arthur. They still need big depth, but their lineup going forward looks promising...

Starters - Conley, Mayo, Gay, Arthur, Milicic
Rotation - Crittenton, Warrick

So I think Riley got out GM'd by McHale on this one. All those guys, including Presti, were trying to leverage their pick into something more than what it was, but only McHale was able to pull it off.

As for the Sonics, we got a great prospect. Westbrook's got a chance to be something special. I was all about getting OJ Mayo too, but I wouldn't have wanted to pay what Memphis did.

[BBen]

I don't think Presti was ever considering taking Mayo to play him. He wanted that kid to leverage some trades. Someone told me that Mayo was the only top recruit that he didn't interview.

[asdf1223]

Thats right, we didnt even work out mayo or rather he didnt want to work out for us. So any interest in mayo was just a smoke screen or to trade for some other team. i thought the t wolves did excellently in the trade dumping every bad contract and bench warmer for a lights out shooter, a smaller bad contract and the guy they wanted. Rev just curious though how does this trade leave the t wolves capwise? they had a lot of caproom coming with walker buckner hudson and howard coming of the books

[andyhop]

It pretty much pushes our cap room back a year to 2010 from 2009 dependent on what happens in the meantime

[BenjaminH]

This assumes a lot of things, but the real annoying part is this: Westbrook went too high. The Timberwolves clearly wanted Kevin Love. Sonics could have easily drafted Love and worked a deal for Mayo. And to make things worse, rumor is that Mayo may still be traded to Miami for Beasley.

I question how easy it would have been. Reports are that MIN and MEM made their picks expecting to keep them. MEM only called MIN with a trade idea after the end of the first round. If that didn't work out, MIN would be stuck with Mayo and MEM with Love, which they were both happy to do. So if we selected Love and were unable to work something out, then we'd probably be stuck with Love instead of Westbrook. Yes, Westbrook was a bit of a reach, but I think he is a better fit than Love. (I know that debate is ongoing.) In any case, I would be all for offering more for Mayo and trying to work something out before the draft. But it would not be wise to select Love in hopes of working something out.

Also, where is the rumor Mayo may still be traded to Miami for Beasley?

[Patches Pal]

The Sonics did not go after Mayo or Bayless because they already have a SG. His name is Kevin Durant. Get used to it guys. He is one of the best scorers in the league. Jeff Green is the SF. He is a good defender and will become a better than average scorer. Presti is looking for defense first. Offense can be developed thru practice. Defense is a mindset that cannot be taught. Because KD is going to stay at SG the Sonics need point guards that can defend the other teams best guard. We also went for size and athletic ability along the front line. Ibaka and Hardin are both good athletes at 6-11 that could play either PF or Center. White brings a low post game but is not a replacement for Wheezy. He is Marshall's successor.

[HMFFL]

Wouldn't Wilcox, #4, and the #24 be enough to land mayo? Don't get me wrong, I love Westbrook but I really feel that Mayo has potential to be the best in this year's draft class. I see him as a short version of KOBE.

Looking past Kevin Love the Minny trade is still better.

[BBen]

PatchesPal said:
The Sonics did not go after Mayo or Bayless because they already have a SG. His name is Kevin Durant. Get used to it guys. He is one of the best scorers in the league. Jeff Green is the SF. He is a good defender and will become a better than average scorer. Presti is looking for defense first. Offense can be developed thru practice. Defense is a mindset that cannot be taught. Because KD is going to stay at SG the Sonics need point guards that can defend the other teams best guard. We also went for size and athletic ability along the front line. Ibaka and Hardin are both good athletes at 6-11 that could play either PF or Center. White brings a low post game but is not a replacement for Wheezy. He is Marshall's successor.

That was a fantastic breakdown of the situation. Maybe we just hold on to Wilcox also. I'm a huge fan of him when he has a good night. Hey, remember Derrick McKey? He was one of my favorite players to watch but he was a lot like Wheezy; two nights on, one night off. And I guess that's acceptable to me in the regular season assuming that you know you'll make the playoffs. The problem is that McKey had that luxury and Wilcox doesn't. Musings aside, I think he's a good player and a Wilcox/Collison depth chart is very nice since they compliment each other very well. Remember, we were actually a decent rebounding team last year.

I guess I'll just have to stop questioning Durant at 2 and give up on sliding him over for now as you suggested. He did fine last year and positions are just labels, saying SG doesn't really define what he does for the team.

[BenjaminH]

I remember one year ago when we were debating whether Durant should play the 3 or the 4 ...

[GO GRIZZ]

To be truthful, I don't think either team got the short end of the stick. The Grizz were in a position to add salary with players that actually could get on the floor to play unlike Brian Cardinal. I don't think Love would have panned out because of the tempo the Grizz run. I know he was heavier when he played the Memphis Tigers but I think that would be taking a big chance on someone who couldn't keep up to produce in the offense. The Grizz will definitely miss Mike Miller but sometimes you have to do what you have to do to get someone respectable or even resembles a star quality player. And of course Collins is an expiring I believe that probably wouldn't have seen the floor that often either. As I said before, I think the deal wasn't bad at all for either team based on need.

[richboy]

The Sonics did not go after Mayo or Bayless because they already have a SG. His name is Kevin Durant. Get used to it guys. He is one of the best scorers in the league. Jeff Green is the SF. He is a good defender and will become a better than average scorer. Presti is looking for defense first. Offense can be developed thru practice. Defense is a mindset that cannot be taught. Because KD is going to stay at SG the Sonics need point guards that can defend the other teams best guard. We also went for size and athletic ability along the front line. Ibaka and Hardin are both good athletes at 6-11 that could play either PF or Center. White brings a low post game but is not a replacement for Wheezy. He is Marshall's successor.

Who knows what this organization is thinking. IMO your wasting Durant if you keep playing him at Sg. That said you don't fill needs in the draft. I'm already getting in the Presti sucks in drafts camp. If you don't see Durant as ever being a 3 or 4 like your suggesting. Then Kevin Love is by far the pick you take at 4. Nobody. Not one person a live could watch a UCLA game and come up with Westbrook is better than Kevin Love. IMO I see Westbrook and I see Kenyon Dooling all over again. The Sonics could have just signed him in the offseason. He pretty much the best or one of the best defensive PGs in the league and can slide over and guard pretty much any Sgs. I like Westbrook but he is not top 4 player in the draft value. He should not have went even in the top 10 in this draft.

Also if Westbrook is guarding the best guard then who is Durant guarding. is Durant guarding point guards. Really if your even thinking about making moves like this to help out Durant on defense then perhaps you have Durant at the wrong position. The fact is Mayo probably has just as much PG skills as Westbrook. Nearly just as good a defender. in my book the selection of Westbrook is worse than the Twolves taking Corey Brewer as high as they did and the Hawks taking Shelden Williams in the top 5. The idea that any team would take a guy that has no shot at being a all-star player top 4 over a talent like Kevin Love is beyond ridiculous.

Guess what we did the same thing last year. I like Jeff Green but again he a future role player. Who has 2 top 5 picks and takes role players. There will be teams with picks outside the lottery that will get better players than we are getting in the top 5.

[wiff]

Didn't Jeff Green make the All-Rookie team? He was drafted 5th and there are only five guys on the Rookie team so I'd say for at least this past year his draft postition was warranted.

I'm very content with Westbrook. I wouldn't have touched Kevin Love with a ten foot pole. For me the guy just screams bust.

Mayo is obviously very talented but honestly I have some serious doubts about who the guy surrounds himself with.

I liked Bayless quite a bit but obviously Presti's focus is defense and I have no problem with that. Look at the teams that win rings. Boston, Spurs, Detroit, all teams who play serious D.

I'm glad Presti had the balls to simply pick his guy at #4 even though he could take some heat. If he's the guy you want and you are worried he might not be there at #7 do you really need another Damien Wilkins as a bonus? Take the guy you want and be done with it.

Bayless is the sexier pick but look at the Bobcats. They took DJ Augustin over Bayless as well. Apparently Bayless's stock dropped for some reason, maybe he should have worked out for a few more teams? What's to say Bayless isn't the next Dwuan Wagner? There is always a risk with whoever you draft.

Sure Westbrook might not be able to grasp the offensive side of the ball right away, but you know what doesn't have off nights? Defense. Defense doesn't get hot or cold like a shooter. That's why defense wins championships.

Boston played HORRIBLY on offense in one of the games the Lakers won, but they we still in the game late because of defense.

I don't think Durant is going to be covering many PG's unless they are slower than the opposing SG. For example Barron Davis and Monta Ellis.

But at least you know Westbrook is going to be slowing down the opposing PG.

I'll buy Durant is locked into the SG spot this year, but I don't see him playing the SG long term unless the kid can't put weight on. Still I don't think you can really "watse" Durants talent. You just need to put him on the floor for 38 minutes.

[richboy]

Didn't Jeff Green make the All-Rookie team? He was drafted 5th and there are only five guys on the Rookie team so I'd say for at least this past year his draft postition was warranted.

I'm very content with Westbrook. I wouldn't have touched Kevin Love with a ten foot pole. For me the guy just screams bust.

Mayo is obviously very talented but honestly I have some serious doubts about who the guy surrounds himself with.

I liked Bayless quite a bit but obviously Presti's focus is defense and I have no problem with that. Look at the teams that win rings. Boston, Spurs, Detroit, all teams who play serious D.

I'm glad Presti had the balls to simply pick his guy at #4 even though he could take some heat. If he's the guy you want and you are worried he might not be there at #7 do you really need another Damien Wilkins as a bonus? Take the guy you want and be done with it.

Bayless is the sexier pick but look at the Bobcats. They took DJ Augustin over Bayless as well. Apparently Bayless's stock dropped for some reason, maybe he should have worked out for a few more teams? What's to say Bayless isn't the next Dwuan Wagner? There is always a risk with whoever you draft.

Sure Westbrook might not be able to grasp the offensive side of the ball right away, but you know what doesn't have off nights? Defense. Defense doesn't get hot or cold like a shooter. That's why defense wins championships.

Boston played HORRIBLY on offense in one of the games the Lakers won, but they we still in the game late because of defense.

I don't think Durant is going to be covering many PG's unless they are slower than the opposing SG. For example Barron Davis and Monta Ellis.

But at least you know Westbrook is going to be slowing down the opposing PG.

I'll buy Durant is locked into the SG spot this year, but I don't see him playing the SG long term unless the kid can't put weight on. Still I don't think you can really "watse" Durants talent. You just need to put him on the floor for 38 minutes.

What you make all-rookie team means your going to be an all-star? The majority of even all-rookie team players don't come close to being all-star players. All-rookie teams are completely based on stats. Stats are only accumulated when your put in situations where you are allowed to play a lot. Plus your in a situation that your a major part of the offense. Perhaps a bigger part of the offense than you likely deserve.

Green making all-rookie is nice but you said Love screams bust. Green screams role player at best. He may have bust potential as a first team all-nba. He may be a guy that played on a real bad team that would not have played on a better team. Green had one of the worst offensive ratings in the league last year. His offensive rating was 94. The league average is 105. Green PER was 9.9. Are you kidding me. That would put as the 25th most productive rookie. His draft position is warranted? Yet he was third in minutes played. Thats the reality of rookie awards. Although none of the bad rookies in PER were close to minutes played as Green. The ones that did play a lot were on horrible teams. Pretty much meaning he was not good enough to play on any decent team. Whats scary is these numbers came as a 4th and 5th option on a bad team.

Now I'm going to give you a stat that should really end any idea that Green can ever be an all-star. This stat will show that if he does become an all-star he will likely do something that no player in the history of the league has done. I think it was John Hollinger who had this stat and had more depth into this.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... =&offset=0

Those are the players in the history of the league that have had a PER under 10 in their rookie season and played at least 500 minutes. 349 players and I can only see 1 all-star. Kevin Duckworth made the all-star team a couple of times but did not come close to really having all-star numbers. Really he more like Jamaal Magloire that a bonafid all-star. No player that has played 2000 minutes and had a PER under 10 have ever made the all-star team. In essence Jeff Green has to do something that has never been done. I would consider just about every one of those players on that list a pretty bad player.

Westbrook defense is fine but its ridiculous to take a player top 5 based on defense. The Sonics could sign Kenyon Dooling who a Westbrook clone for the MLE. Defense is just as much about coaching as individuals. Remember Earl Watson use to be a good defensive player. If you didn't notice that was Delonte West and Wally Z playing some of the best defense in the playoffs with the Cavs.

How does Love scream bust. What because he not an amazing runner and jumper? Love is as skilled a player that I've seen as a freshman ever. EVER. Love is as fundamentally sound as any player I've seen as a freshman. I will say this right now. Kevin Love comes into the league as one of the 5 most fundamentally sound big men in the league as a rookie. This kid has great gifts. Vision as good as any PG in this draft. Amazing hands. Soft touch. Rebounds better than Nick Collison. Extremely strong. I heard one player that worked out with him and worked out with Oden a year ago say that Love was the most difficult player to move that he ever played against.

Now I have a problem passing on Love but I can accept that. I have a problem passing on Love for a no doubt role player. I could understand if you took Lopez, Bayless, perhaps even Gordon. Those players have upside. What is the best you could envision Westbrook being. I would say Rondo with less passing. I would say Kenyon Dooling with more passing perhaps. IMO Westbrook has to have the single lowest upside of a top 4 pick in the history of the league. Its debatable if Westbrook is better than Mario Chalmers. At the end of the year I had the two rated about the same. Think about this. Rose goes number 1 and you hit he could compare to Chris Paul, Deron Williams. Beasley goes second and if you hit he could compare to Charles Barkley. Mayo goes 3 and if he compares he should atleast be more athletic Ray Allen or short version Kobe. Westbrook a better version Kenyon Dooling. Love a smaller version Tim Duncan. Which one of these doesn't fit.

Those that want to see the 5 UCLA tournament games you can go right here.

http://www.ncaasports.com/mmod/player/

Perhaps you see something that tell you that Westbrook is a better player than Love.