What exactly is the plan/path to getting better?

[Dalek]

I know there is a ton of directions we could take and the recent moves make a lot of sense on paper to build around Scottie now.

Ultimately, I think the plan is discovering more about how we maximize Scottie Barnes. It is easy to throw around terms like "he is young superstar" but what does that mean exactly? I don't think we can confuse him with Luka who is an offensive system unto himself and an MVP level talent now. Is he more like Kawhi or Paul George being the ultimate two way player? He is still a ways away from taking over and closing out games.

I think the path for the future is clear. We removed the hurdles for touches for Barnes by moving Siakam and OG, and now we move onto figuring out what we got. I think spacing/shooting and rim protection will be key. We can't keep expecting Barnes to be everywhere all at once.

[binjumper]

I still don't really understand how this team gets any better until the 2025-2026 season which is pretty depressing...

again your only real shot at getting considerably better is with high end lottery core prospects, look at OKC/IND/MEM/ORL etc.

We likely don't have that pick this year - wasted year of added talent

we MAY get one at the end of next year in the draft, MAY

that's 1 more legit core piece to add to BBQ by 2025-2026

pretty depressing, all the more reason why the Poetl trade was a disaster...

All the tanking teams had 2-4 yrs of these high end pieces compound (sometimes multiples in a draft) before turning things around

Sounds like you just want to cry but left Denver and other stars out that came from late picks. for example the Raptors 2019 champions had no lottery picks. the other half the deal was undrafted.

[billy_hoyle]

Agreed. There are so many proposals on here about throwing big money at rotation level guys or trading for them. Williams, JV, posters arguing we should give Claxton $30m/year when we already have Poeltl, trading assets for Deandre Hunter. Feels like we haven't learned much. We have 2 players with real upside (Barnes and IQ). We just got screwed making these short sighted moves (Poeltl trade) and now people want to double down again. We need to see what we have in Barnes and IQ before we make any big signings or trades (unless those guys come at a discount and are tradable, which given our history with FA's that isn't likely). If we sign these Williams-type players to chase the play-in next year that is the worst spot to be in. We need to be either bad (get a high pick next year) or Barnes and IQ make a leap and then we can think about adding rotation players (but definitely NOT overpaying guys like Williams or Claxton, who will not move the needle enough if Barnes and IQ don't reach their full potential).

As it stands right now we have 1 solid all-star level player (Barnes). The most likely outcome for IQ is good (but not all-star) starting level pg. Why are we in a rush to round out the roster for that type of team. I know the last 2 years sucked but that doesn't mean we can speed up the process now.

As per how to get better:

-take shots on upside guys with a our 2 1sts this year

-only sign FA if they come at a discount (in case we need to trade them)

-go into next year relying on Barnes and IQ's continued growth as the key indicator for direction. If they are both playing great, then win-now moves to round out the roster make more sense. If they only make small improvements the team will again be in the bottom 10 in which case we need to pivot to a tank at the end of the '25 season.

In all honesty, as this team stand (right now) how is that much different from the previous iteration?

Barnes = Siakam (2nd option level player though Barnes has higher upside)

IQ = FVV (solid top 15 pg who may or may not make an all-star game or two)

It isn't a perfect equivalence but this team needs to be looked at from the ceiling of their best 2 players. At this point in time those ceilings are unknown and both of them being all-stars is far from guaranteed. Unless you believe IQ is going to be an all-NBA level player we're still going to be looking for one of those guys to pair with Scottie if we want to get back to contender status. We probably have to take a step back if we want to build a team with real upside. We should probably be in the asset accumulation phase, not the "push for the playoffs" phase.

Here's the rub. Salary and the cap.

According to you, the "two best players' on the team are IQ and Scottie (no mention of the younger than IQ, 23 year old, former top three pick playing better than IQ, but whatever).

Both Scottie and IQ make relative peanuts this summer (IQ has a paltry $12m cap hold, Scottie makes $10m) . That won't be the case after the summer.

We have an opportunity to pry away good young players by paying them slightly more than their teams want to based purely on the fact our main pieces still cost nothing. That flexibility disappears soon. We have one chance to use it. That's why we should dump all salary for assets to create max room and poach age appropriate support. Even if we overpay by 20%.

Pat Williams is the same age as Scottie, and has some pretty high potential. He was the 4th pick in the draft for a reason. He's been stuck behind two all stars in Chicago.
He shoots the three well. He has good size and athleticism.

He is projectable to be a low end starter, with room for more.

That's all to say, as soon as we lock in our 'stars' at 20-40% of the cap we lose the flexibility to poach Free Agents. It's the MLE, trades and picks from there.

Outside of Schroder, who had seemingly no market, please list all of the free agents we have acquired that have not turned out to be extreme overpays. Players do not come here on discounts or even fair market contracts. Patrick Williams has made zero progress as a player since he was drafted. Here are his rookie year numbers vs his current numbers (career average in brackets):

2pt: 52% vs 48% (50%)
3pt: 39% vs 41% (41%)
ts%: 56% vs 56% (57%)
ftr: .237 vs .183 (.203)
trb%: 9.1 vs 7.7 (8.4)
ast%: 6.7 vs 8.0 (6.5)
Drtg: 112 vs 116 (113)

What exactly has he gotten better at over 4 years? The guy has been a mediocre 3+D player who plays the same position (PF) as Scottie.

And "drafted high so they must be good" might be the most bunk logic I've ever heard. How are you feeling about James Wiseman? What about Issac Okoro? Why don't we throw a bunch of money at Killian Hayes? Those guys must be good right? You have to be good to be drafted in the top 7 right?

As for your cap space argument, as it stands Quickley is looking at a $25m/year deal and Barnes a 25% max (starting at $39m). That's $65m for 2 players. The cap will be $170m in 2026/27. We aren't the Celtics paying our top 2 guys $100m. Cap flexibility is not an issue. If we got off of Poeltl we could go into the 26/27 off-season with nearly $50m in cap space and that's with Barnes, Quickley and Barrett all under contract.

A few things:

Wiseman, Okuro and Hayes haven't shown consistent flashes. Pat Williams has. I've never brought those guys up as FA targets (although all of them would be reasonable targets pending the cost). Your arguing that he isn't worth going after because he hasn't improved, and you used a 39% three point shot vs a 41% three point shot as evidence. So, those are both great percentages, I don't understand how that can be used as a negative. He's increased his attempts and gotten marginally better.

He's a league average shooter, in his age 19 - 22 seasons. That's not really a negative.

I also think he's a clear proto-type 3. He's 6-8, decent handles, good outside shot. Put him next to Barnes and he doesn't look nearly as big IMO, you'd be playing small with him at PF.

To your Cap rebuttal argument.
The 26/27 season has a projected cap of $171.8m

RJ makes $29.6m for the 26/27 season .
Scottie signed to a max of 25% cap plus 8% raise per year will make $42.12m for the 26/27 season.
IQ will make $25m this offseason, then if you incl likely raises, he will make $31.5m for the 26/27 season.

That totals $103 for three players, so $68m in cap space
Gradey Dicks option alone takes it to $60m.
If we have any of our drafted players on the roster from our 6 first round picks they will be making 3-4% of the cap. That's an additional ~$30m. That's no Yak
We'd likely have added other players in that time IMO.

I don't think $30m is alot when the Cap is $171m that's ~70 of a max deal.

That all requires keeping the same bones as we have right now a fast forwarding three years, only collecting our picks.

If we trade Brown, Purtle, Boucher, Schroeder and GTJ right now. We have more relative space in comparison, we collect future cost controlled assets that can be integral when we are near the second apron, and we allow players like Pat to grow and develop in our system.

We haven't signed anyone of great value, that's why we'd need to target the mid-tier types and slightly over pay.

[Raps in 4]

I still don't really understand how this team gets any better until the 2025-2026 season which is pretty depressing...

again your only real shot at getting considerably better is with high end lottery core prospects, look at OKC/IND/MEM/ORL etc.

We likely don't have that pick this year - wasted year of added talent

we MAY get one at the end of next year in the draft, MAY

that's 1 more legit core piece to add to BBQ by 2025-2026

pretty depressing, all the more reason why the Poetl trade was a disaster...

All the tanking teams had 2-4 yrs of these high end pieces compound (sometimes multiples in a draft) before turning things around

Sounds like you just want to cry but left Denver and other stars out that came from late picks. for example the Raptors 2019 champions had no lottery picks. the other half the deal was undrafted.

The Raptors traded multiple former top-10 picks (Demar, Yak, JV) to build that team though.

[execoftheyear]

we have a lot more flexibility than what could've been (we could've ended up paying OG and Siakam to ridiculous contracts that would limit our options and we've given it enough chances to know for sure the fits wasn't there)

[Kingsway_fan]

You hope that the 2024 draft brings in at least 1-2 solid prospects and you use them along with other future draft assets to trade for a star. Morant, Markkanen, LaMelo.

Add them to the core of Barnes + IQ + RJ and hope that the depth is enough to make a deep playoff run.

Hello? Wake up.. this is not Disney...

Those picks are useless. The likelihood of any cracking the starting 8 is remote. Think Flynn... let alone Dick.

The only way this team will acquire talent is b6 ending up top 4 in the lottery. Even then, the likelihood of landing a real talent is still rare.

[Kingsway_fan]

You hope that the 2024 draft brings in at least 1-2 solid prospects and you use them along with other future draft assets to trade for a star. Morant, Markkanen, LaMelo.

Add them to the core of Barnes + IQ + RJ and hope that the depth is enough to make a deep playoff run.

Hello? Wake up.. this is not Disney...

Those picks are useless. The likelihood of any cracking the starting 8 is remote. Think Flynn... let alone Dick.

The only way this team will acquire talent is b6 ending up top 4 in the lottery. Even then, the likelihood of landing a real talent is still rare.

Get ready for a multi year tank... thanks Masai.

[artsncrafts]

You hope that the 2024 draft brings in at least 1-2 solid prospects and you use them along with other future draft assets to trade for a star. Morant, Markkanen, LaMelo.

Add them to the core of Barnes + IQ + RJ and hope that the depth is enough to make a deep playoff run.

Hello? Wake up.. this is not Disney...

Those picks are useless. The likelihood of any cracking the starting 8 is remote. Think Flynn... let alone Dick.

The only way this team will acquire talent is b6 ending up top 4 in the lottery. Even then, the likelihood of landing a real talent is still rare.

I dont think they draft an all-star but I dont think it is a stretch to think they can draft someone better than Flynn. Gradey looked good last time he got minutes. He is 20, I think he will be "fine" (a regular NBA player one day).

[gpoon]

- So we traded a top 20 player and didn't get a single good young player back (really should've held out for Walker or atleast Nembard)

-Acquired a bunch of late round picks in one of the worst drafts in years.

- Likely don't have our top 10 pick, likely the only way to acquire another legit core piece.

- Will likely avoid full blown tanking next year and probably aren't bad enough to be a top 5 worse team in the league for a top pick(that's basically 2 yrs from now anyway)

What exactly is the plan for getting better then?

What are some potential paths with this somewhat awkward situation for a rebuild?

The path is pretty clear… we are betting on IQ Barnes and RJ being our core… if 2/3 take a step next year this team will be a playoff team. The next few years just try to find pieces that fit around them.

[Johnny Bball]

And the league is much stronger today in the East. And let's wait for another Kawhi in 5 years.

Then why follow the team?

If it is so bleak and desperate, with no chance of competing ever again, why are you posting so much about it?

I do hope you have a positive outlet somewhere in life.

It's not bleak - it's just disappointing. I'm here to post my opinion of it. You can ignore my posts or ignore me if you have problems with my opinion.

You posted for the last 3 years, countless times every day, that you wanted to have losing bleak seasons, and it has barely even started now, and you are complaining its too bleak. You feel betrayed because they are not rebuilding to your exact specifications? This fanbase is so entitled.

[YogurtProducer]

Then why follow the team?

If it is so bleak and desperate, with no chance of competing ever again, why are you posting so much about it?

I do hope you have a positive outlet somewhere in life.

It's not bleak - it's just disappointing. I'm here to post my opinion of it. You can ignore my posts or ignore me if you have problems with my opinion.

You posted for the last 3 years, countless times every day, that you wanted to have losing bleak seasons, and it has barely even started now, and you are complaining its too bleak. You feel betrayed because they are not rebuilding to your exact specifications? This fanbase is so entitled.

As expected - those who constantly wanted the rebuild don’t have the ability to be patient.

WHO COULD HAVE EXPECTED?!?!

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

Then why follow the team?

If it is so bleak and desperate, with no chance of competing ever again, why are you posting so much about it?

I do hope you have a positive outlet somewhere in life.

It's not bleak - it's just disappointing. I'm here to post my opinion of it. You can ignore my posts or ignore me if you have problems with my opinion.

You posted for the last 3 years, countless times every day, that you wanted to have losing bleak seasons, and it has barely even started now, and you are complaining its too bleak. You feel betrayed because they are not rebuilding to your exact specifications? This fanbase is so entitled.

These guys will complain about everything lol They wanted to tank now they got it.. You already got Barnes from a 1 year somewhat of a tank so all you have to do is add on to him and build up the pieces around him.. hard part is getting the super stud player and we got him...

[MiamiSPX]

- Continued growth from BBQ.
- Where those acquired picks are going to land is irrelevant to me because I am pretty sure they are going to use 1-2 of them as currency to obtain someone else.
- They can also use their cap space to absorb a bad contract or two and be compensated for their troubles.
- They need to take a swing if they do keep 1 of those later picks.
- Internal growth. If Dick can somehow contribute next season, they are suddenly loaded with up-and-coming (hopefully) youth. Maybe there is something there with Nwora and/or Lewis Jr? Chances are very slim but those are the fliers they need to be taking.
- If all the above fails, tamper the F out of SGA lol.

They DO have flexibility now. Tons of it actually.

[Ackshun]

Seems like everyone nowadays needs instant gratification.

There are 29 other teams in the league, all in different parts of the cycle. We just won a ship, more than a lot of teams can say ever, or at least recently l (OKC, Pacers, knicks, Magic, Clippers, Twolves etc..). It took the Celtics 12-15 years to get back to relevance.

Enjoy the ride. It’s just sports. Compete. Develop. Entertain. But you can’t rush championships. You can’t even buy yourself one like the MLB. Let’s enjoy having one of the more promising young guys in the league with Scottie. Let’s cheer him on, cheer our FO on.

Time to stop being so god damn negative all the time.

It’s all good.

[Tom_Foolery]

It's obvious, we are seeing the beginnings of Darko-ball.

Pushing the ball up court, attacking the rim, more ball movement, more cuts, better spacing and hope fully better 3pt shooting.

Our rotation is filled with new players and things already look better offensively.

[Michael Jordan]

You hope that the 2024 draft brings in at least 1-2 solid prospects and you use them along with other future draft assets to trade for a star. Morant, Markkanen, LaMelo.

Add them to the core of Barnes + IQ + RJ and hope that the depth is enough to make a deep playoff run.

Hello? Wake up.. this is not Disney...

Those picks are useless. The likelihood of any cracking the starting 8 is remote. Think Flynn... let alone Dick.

The only way this team will acquire talent is b6 ending up top 4 in the lottery. Even then, the likelihood of landing a real talent is still rare.

Get ready for a multi year tank... thanks Masai.

The NBA is in the entertainment business along with Disney so I will continue to dream. After all I said "hope"

Anyways Siakam was drafted 27th, OG was drafted 23rd, and Fred was undrafted. I have faith in Masai to come out with at least 1 gem this draft.

[SaveTheHens]

Clearly we're just going to tank this year, get the 3rd/4th overall pick, sign Siakam and OG to the max, make the playoffs next year and win a championship the year after (when we use all our young talent/picks to trade for some superstar). Easy peasy /green

[Raps in 4]

How many FRPs do we think it would take to get Lauri? 5?

I'd explore packaging our picks from the Pascal trade plus two more from different sources and seeing if Ainge bites. We know he has a fetish for collecting draft picks, and Lauri is pretty old for a team doing a full teardown (26, going on 27).

[CazOnReal]

How many FRPs do we think it would take to get Lauri? 5?

I'd explore packaging our picks from the Pascal trade plus two more from different sources and seeing if Ainge bites. We know he has a fetish for collecting draft picks, and Lauri is pretty old for a team doing a full teardown (26, going on 27).

No one is getting Lauri.

[Hackett]

- So we traded a top 20 player and didn't get a single good young player back (really should've held out for Walker or atleast Nembard)

-Acquired a bunch of late round picks in one of the worst drafts in years.

It's a bad draft for Lotto picks, but my understanding is that this draft is actually quite deep. Which means this draft is loaded with talented players, just lacks overwhelming consensus picks. Masai was able to find Siakam with a 27th pick, I have a feeling that he will do well with the drafting in his positions, this is actually the sort of draft that a GM like Masai would be favored in. Masai has never needed consensus, he usually marches to his own drum beat.

This is the sort of draft where scouts earn their money, and GM's loose their jobs. The quality players are there, you just need to differentiate them from the duds, I wouldn't be surprised if this draft has more than its fair share of starting players.


EDIT: So by the same token, this is exactly the draft that you want to have lots of 1st rounders if they are not in the Lotto, because lotto picks are not as valuable in this draft, you just want to have early picks to get at the talent before other teams do. So this is a perfect draft for someone holding lots of mid level and late 1st round picks. There will be lots of talent left on the board when those picks are in control, we just need to choose wisely.