ImageImageImageImageImage

TO TANK, or NOT TO TANK, that is the question!

Moderators: 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford, DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX

What do you prefer? To tank or not to tank?

Poll ended at Fri Feb 2, 2024 12:10 am

To tank
104
69%
Not to tank
46
31%
 
Total votes: 150

StopitLeo
RealGM
Posts: 12,388
And1: 6,825
Joined: Dec 13, 2001
 

Re: TO TANK, or NOT TO TANK, that is the question! 

Post#181 » by StopitLeo » Thu Jan 25, 2024 12:04 am

Raps Next GM wrote:I think the word “tanking” gets thrown around too loosely and is too open to interpretation.

What is “tanking,” exactly? I believe it is too broadly accepted as intentionally losing, which no pro athlete or coach would do.

So if that’s what you expect the Raptors to do, then forget that idea. That is not happening, nor will it.
The Raptors want Scottie to continue to make strides and want IQ and Barrett to emerge. If they do so to such an extreme that they make a playoff push, that is a bonus. But if they develop as hoped but you continue to lose more often than not, then so be it.
The focus is on development of the core even if it comes at the expense of a few wins this season.

In my opinion, tanking is nothing more than willing to sacrifice today for gains tomorrow. A loss this season theoretically means a win next season (or the next) when those wins will be more critical to your team’s trajectory.

If trading GTJ, or Brown or anyone other than the core three accelerates that progress in any way (i.e. allowing you to draft or sign a player that better fits the team) then you do it. Winning 32 games instead of 36 doesn't matter so long as the former is accomplished.

I don’t see how anyone could oppose "tanking" in that sense.


The athletes and coach may not have a choice if Sam Hinkie is your GM.

I completely agree with the rest of what you wrote. For healthy player and team development you want a team that goes out and is competitive. They may not be good enough to win but that's not the main objective right now.

Interestingly, you didn't refer to the draft pick at all, which seems to be the main incentive for tanking. I honestly don't think it matters what happens to the pick. The future of this team is going to be dictated by Scottie Barnes' development regardless of whether we keep the pick this year.
mihaic
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,611
And1: 3,798
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
   

Re: TO TANK, or NOT TO TANK, that is the question! 

Post#182 » by mihaic » Thu Jan 25, 2024 1:01 am

Well, I turned with the tides. I was on team undecided, I guess. Team patience in Masai's words.

But now that the dice have been rolled, barring a miraculous and long winning streak, I think it's time to start looking for a high draft pick.
User avatar
Statistician MK
Junior
Posts: 332
And1: 427
Joined: Jul 11, 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON - Canada
Contact:
       

Re: TO TANK, or NOT TO TANK, that is the question! 

Post#183 » by Statistician MK » Thu Jan 25, 2024 3:42 am

Memphis Grizzlies @ Miami Heat .............. 105-96
Portland Trail Blazers @ Houston Rockets ... 137-131

I might be good for the Raps!
We all have different opinions, and that is one thing that makes this forum great.
User avatar
dTox
RealGM
Posts: 16,151
And1: 17,231
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Location: Basement
   

Re: TO TANK, or NOT TO TANK, that is the question! 

Post#184 » by dTox » Thu Jan 25, 2024 4:26 am

I am assuming this is a rhetorical question

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
Image
FREE PALESTINE
KL78192020
RealGM
Posts: 13,837
And1: 14,775
Joined: Apr 19, 2009

Re: TO TANK, or NOT TO TANK, that is the question! 

Post#185 » by KL78192020 » Thu Jan 25, 2024 4:39 am

Statistician MK wrote:Memphis Grizzlies @ Miami Heat .............. 105-96
Portland Trail Blazers @ Houston Rockets ... 137-131

I might be good for the Raps!


lol not to far from the Blazers. Can easily be fifth worst.
User avatar
Parataxis
General Manager
Posts: 9,490
And1: 5,775
Joined: Jan 31, 2010
Location: Penticton, BC
       

Re: TO TANK, or NOT TO TANK, that is the question! 

Post#186 » by Parataxis » Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:02 am

Yeezus_ wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:The better question is whether you should tank the rest of this season AND tank in 24/25. That defers the 1st to Spurs until 2026 draft. Tanking this season requires full commitment from management.

Ideally you do that but tanking this year is just tough without a guaranteed draft pick. Next year they should be developing (tanking) at all costs. 2025-2026 season should be the realistic target to make your way up the standings.


I'm okay with letting the kids play and treating next year as a development year. If we lose, we lose - that's the nature of development.

I'm really not looking forward to the forums where people complain and moan about every win and actively cheer for losses.
Raps Next GM
Rookie
Posts: 1,249
And1: 1,282
Joined: Jun 05, 2013

Re: TO TANK, or NOT TO TANK, that is the question! 

Post#187 » by Raps Next GM » Thu Jan 25, 2024 2:11 pm

StopitLeo wrote:
Raps Next GM wrote:I think the word “tanking” gets thrown around too loosely and is too open to interpretation.

What is “tanking,” exactly? I believe it is too broadly accepted as intentionally losing, which no pro athlete or coach would do.

So if that’s what you expect the Raptors to do, then forget that idea. That is not happening, nor will it.
The Raptors want Scottie to continue to make strides and want IQ and Barrett to emerge. If they do so to such an extreme that they make a playoff push, that is a bonus. But if they develop as hoped but you continue to lose more often than not, then so be it.
The focus is on development of the core even if it comes at the expense of a few wins this season.

In my opinion, tanking is nothing more than willing to sacrifice today for gains tomorrow. A loss this season theoretically means a win next season (or the next) when those wins will be more critical to your team’s trajectory.

If trading GTJ, or Brown or anyone other than the core three accelerates that progress in any way (i.e. allowing you to draft or sign a player that better fits the team) then you do it. Winning 32 games instead of 36 doesn't matter so long as the former is accomplished.

I don’t see how anyone could oppose "tanking" in that sense.


The athletes and coach may not have a choice if Sam Hinkie is your GM.

I completely agree with the rest of what you wrote. For healthy player and team development you want a team that goes out and is competitive. They may not be good enough to win but that's not the main objective right now.

Interestingly, you didn't refer to the draft pick at all, which seems to be the main incentive for tanking. I honestly don't think it matters what happens to the pick. The future of this team is going to be dictated by Scottie Barnes' development regardless of whether we keep the pick this year.


100%

I didn't mention the pick for the very reason you point out: it's not the objective for this team. Scottie's development (and to a lesser extent IQ & RJ's), that is the goal. The pick or lack of is not relevant... If anything, I think Masai & Bobby would rather just give pick #7 this year than have it run over to top 10-ish selection in a stronger draft next year.

Re: the 76ers, Hinke was tanking. I saw nothing to indicate that coach Brown or the players were. They were just not able to compete because it was a terrible collection of talent on the court.
Yeezus_
RealGM
Posts: 11,023
And1: 14,086
Joined: Feb 18, 2009
Location: Toronto
     

Re: TO TANK, or NOT TO TANK, that is the question! 

Post#188 » by Yeezus_ » Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:57 pm

Parataxis wrote:
Yeezus_ wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:The better question is whether you should tank the rest of this season AND tank in 24/25. That defers the 1st to Spurs until 2026 draft. Tanking this season requires full commitment from management.

Ideally you do that but tanking this year is just tough without a guaranteed draft pick. Next year they should be developing (tanking) at all costs. 2025-2026 season should be the realistic target to make your way up the standings.


I'm okay with letting the kids play and treating next year as a development year. If we lose, we lose - that's the nature of development.

I'm really not looking forward to the forums where people complain and moan about every win and actively cheer for losses.

Yeah that's probably the most realistic path. I cant imagine them actually being like bottom 5 worst team next season. Though they'll still be young and developing which will probably net them in the bottom 10-12 atleast.
Yeezy SZN approaching
Tor_Raps
RealGM
Posts: 32,023
And1: 46,717
Joined: Oct 14, 2018

Re: TO TANK, or NOT TO TANK, that is the question! 

Post#189 » by Tor_Raps » Thu Jan 25, 2024 7:00 pm

Barrett/IQ/Barnes need all the on court reps they can get. I'm cool with trading Trent/Schroder/Brown but against sitting young guys. I believe our tanking will happen naturally anyways lol.

Return to Toronto Raptors