PG; Shorthanded Raptors beat Shameful Bulls

[Reeko]

It was always such a ridiculous narrative. We can see how much Scottie is thriving without Siakam hogging the same spots lol

I’m worried the criticism of Barnes might now start to
develop and go too far. It’s hard for him when there is no competent release valve guard or center.

It may very well happen. It's not exactly exciting to watch a player in a role too big for their skill set. But I think we all know we're playing a longer game with Scottie.

At the same time it doesn't seem like the mandate is to win games. Seems like the remainder of the season is about growth and expanding skills. Fair enough. Understandable.

There'll be real expectations next season. Hopefully the current reps will pay dividends. If not, let us not place an single player's development over team success.

Real expectations for what exactly? Playoffs? I certainly hope not. This team is likely a playin team at best for the next two seasons after this one. At this stage we don't have a single consistent high level performer on this team, Scottie, RJ and IQ can be really good for stretches of the season, but not one of them can I look at and say that I know what I'm getting from them night in and night out over the course of 82 games.

[Spates]

I’m worried the criticism of Barnes might now start to
develop and go too far. It’s hard for him when there is no competent release valve guard or center.

It may very well happen. It's not exactly exciting to watch a player in a role too big for their skill set. But I think we all know we're playing a longer game with Scottie.

At the same time it doesn't seem like the mandate is to win games. Seems like the remainder of the season is about growth and expanding skills. Fair enough. Understandable.

There'll be real expectations next season. Hopefully the current reps will pay dividends. If not, let us not place an single player's development over team success.

Real expectations for what exactly? Playoffs? I certainly hope not. This team is likely a playin team at best for the next two seasons after this one. At this stage we don't have a single consistent high level performer on this team, Scottie, RJ and IQ can be really good for stretches of the season, but not one of them can I look at and say that I know what I'm getting from them night in and night out over the course of 82 games.

Good question. Certainly not the playoffs. I'll have expectations of consistency throughout the game on both ends. And also clarity and consistency in his role. If his goal is to be a lead ball handler I expect him to bring in a package that indicates strong potential.

Really I just want to see that he knows his ideal archetype and that he's not straddling what he wants to be and what he should be.

I also say that I'm biased towards players that are stars in their role until they're stars outright. I'm a huge Jimmy Butler stan. Not necessarily how it needs to be. Just an arch that I enjoy.

[MiamiSPX]

But I think we all know we're playing a longer game with Scottie.

Define "all" lol. I've seen many proclamations already about what he will end up being, or not being.

[Webstersweb]

I’m worried the criticism of Barnes might now start to
develop and go too far. It’s hard for him when there is no competent release valve guard or center.

It may very well happen. It's not exactly exciting to watch a player in a role too big for their skill set. But I think we all know we're playing a longer game with Scottie.

At the same time it doesn't seem like the mandate is to win games. Seems like the remainder of the season is about growth and expanding skills. Fair enough. Understandable.

There'll be real expectations next season. Hopefully the current reps will pay dividends. If not, let us not place an single player's development over team success.

Real expectations for what exactly? Playoffs? I certainly hope not. This team is likely a playin team at best for the next two seasons after this one. At this stage we don't have a single consistent high level performer on this team, Scottie, RJ and IQ can be really good for stretches of the season, but not one of them can I look at and say that I know what I'm getting from them night in and night out over the course of 82 games.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said but maybe I am not sure it takes this season and 2 more to be talking playoffs again.
Obviously, To be seen but I may have high hopes for the 3 of them and the FO's ability to develop, draft etc but the possibilities sure are exciting.

[Spates]

But I think we all know we're playing a longer game with Scottie.

Define "all" lol. I've seen many proclamations already about what he will end up being, or not being.

Everyone knows. Some believe the potential, some don't.

[YogurtProducer]

AKA you are talking out your ass and have no clue

Childish response.

Been over this multiple times already. Not worth our time. We've all had these discussions basically since Van Vleet's second season. Not sure why people still want to talk about this when he's gone.

Fred Vanvleet is a career 40 percent shooter, CAREER. He isn’t even elite at three pointers (37 percent this year, 34 percent his last season with us ). He is also a pylon, can’t break down even bigmen consistently on offense, 5 years older, and had locker room issues/ ego tripping. I guess his fans wanna hear these facts again for some reason? Weird behaviour. Man isn’t even on the team.

As weird as still having a mental breakdown everytime the guy is brought up?

Please. IQ and FVV are very similar players.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Childish response.

Been over this multiple times already. Not worth our time. We've all had these discussions basically since Van Vleet's second season. Not sure why people still want to talk about this when he's gone.

Fred Vanvleet is a career 40 percent shooter, CAREER. He isn’t even elite at three pointers (37 percent this year, 34 percent his last season with us ). He is also a pylon, can’t break down even bigmen consistently on offense, 5 years older, and had locker room issues/ ego tripping. I guess his fans wanna hear these facts again for some reason? Weird behaviour. Man isn’t even on the team.

As weird as still having a mental breakdown everytime the guy is brought up?

Please. IQ and FVV are very similar players.

What's the W-L differential for the Rockets from last year to this year? Just curious? Just curious how anyone can doubt an NBA champion who continually shows that he probably wasn't the problem.

[Tripod]

Childish response.

Been over this multiple times already. Not worth our time. We've all had these discussions basically since Van Vleet's second season. Not sure why people still want to talk about this when he's gone.

Fred Vanvleet is a career 40 percent shooter, CAREER. He isn’t even elite at three pointers (37 percent this year, 34 percent his last season with us ). He is also a pylon, can’t break down even bigmen consistently on offense, 5 years older, and had locker room issues/ ego tripping. I guess his fans wanna hear these facts again for some reason? Weird behaviour. Man isn’t even on the team.

As weird as still having a mental breakdown everytime the guy is brought up?

Please. IQ and FVV are very similar players.

Ok...so let's talk about the young one we have and go to former Raps thread for Fred talk.

Everyone wins.

[deck]

I'm not worried about Barnes on the court. He has shown me enough this year with his improvement over last season that I think he is a really good player already, and has tremendous upside going forward.

I am slightly worried about his readiness to handle what will come at him off the court. He has had some really standoffish media interviews this year, and while I wholeheartedly agree that those interviews are an utter waste of time, they will be incessant going forward. He needs to learn from the leafs players on how to embrace the sports goon persona and just respond to everything with chipper platitudes. Let Jontay answer the profound questions.

[Spates]

Just watched the game. Pretty well played from start til finish. They kept their intensity up even when down double digits. Our lineup of savvy vets was precise. Everyone played well. Really good stuff. Vibes looking solid.

[Spates]

This was a great win. Raps played super well on both ends. They looked like the better team. This level of execution will get them many more wins. The only possession that bugged me was McDaniels carelessly driving into a collapsed paint near the end of the third. Thad bailed him out.

[YogurtProducer]

Fred Vanvleet is a career 40 percent shooter, CAREER. He isn’t even elite at three pointers (37 percent this year, 34 percent his last season with us ). He is also a pylon, can’t break down even bigmen consistently on offense, 5 years older, and had locker room issues/ ego tripping. I guess his fans wanna hear these facts again for some reason? Weird behaviour. Man isn’t even on the team.

As weird as still having a mental breakdown everytime the guy is brought up?

Please. IQ and FVV are very similar players.

What's the W-L differential for the Rockets from last year to this year? Just curious? Just curious how anyone can doubt an NBA champion who continually shows that he probably wasn't the problem.

I don’t even care to discuss Fred, but it’s funny watching the usual suspects get their panties in a bunch whenever his name is mentioned.

It’s pretty sad to see how triggered someone can get over reading a guys name.

[HiJiNX]

This was a great win. Raps played super well on both ends. They looked like the better team. This level of execution will get them many more wins. The only possession that bugged me was McDaniels carelessly driving into a collapsed paint near the end of the third. Thad bailed him out.

As usual, you’re seeing the important things.

[ArthurVandelay]

Give the NOAH big board time, it will ruin his stroke soon enough.

There's something to say about us struggling more as they get more used to the system lol. Remember the first few games with Quickley and Barrett where this team was playing fast and getting good looks? Suddenly we're back to playing slow again. Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but we don't seem to be as quick with the ball as we were when we originally got those players.

Paralysis by analysis.

Whereas OG had a great first game playing on instinct, but has played even better as he learned Thibs system. And now Precious is coming on.

I saw a couple posts on Knicks board, re Precious's improved play, saying it shows the Knicks are better at development. Which I knew wouldn't be popular here

I haven't seen any Knicks games with Precious minus the Raptors game, so take this with a giant grain of salt as I'm basically talking out of my ass...

However, is Precious playing better because they are asking him to do what he is good at versus trying to develop skills he just doesn't have? I doubt NY are getting precious to initiate offense or create shots or iso or jack a lot of 3s, all of which he was doing in Toronto. Looking at his game log he's only taken 10 3s as a Knick, 0.6 per game. If Thibs has him rebounding, playing D, and crashing offensive glass, no wonder he'd look better as a Knick - those are his strengths.

[WaltFrazier]

There's something to say about us struggling more as they get more used to the system lol. Remember the first few games with Quickley and Barrett where this team was playing fast and getting good looks? Suddenly we're back to playing slow again. Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but we don't seem to be as quick with the ball as we were when we originally got those players.

Paralysis by analysis.

Whereas OG had a great first game playing on instinct, but has played even better as he learned Thibs system. And now Precious is coming on.

I saw a couple posts on Knicks board, re Precious's improved play, saying it shows the Knicks are better at development. Which I knew wouldn't be popular here

I haven't seen any Knicks games with Precious minus the Raptors game, so take this with a giant grain of salt as I'm basically talking out of my ass...

However, is Precious playing better because they are asking him to do what he is good at versus trying to develop skills he just doesn't have? I doubt NY are getting precious to initiate offense or create shots or iso or jack a lot of 3s, all of which he was doing in Toronto. Looking at his game log he's only taken 10 3s as a Knick, 0.6 per game. If Thibs has him rebounding, playing D, and crashing offensive glass, no wonder he'd look better as a Knick - those are his strengths.

Yes that's fair to say. They have him sticking to what he's good at, defense, rebounding, finishing inside off passes. They don't need him to initiate, or dribble much. It seems sustainable to me

[HumbleRen]

Fred Vanvleet is a career 40 percent shooter, CAREER. He isn’t even elite at three pointers (37 percent this year, 34 percent his last season with us ). He is also a pylon, can’t break down even bigmen consistently on offense, 5 years older, and had locker room issues/ ego tripping. I guess his fans wanna hear these facts again for some reason? Weird behaviour. Man isn’t even on the team.

As weird as still having a mental breakdown everytime the guy is brought up?

Please. IQ and FVV are very similar players.

What's the W-L differential for the Rockets from last year to this year? Just curious? Just curious how anyone can doubt an NBA champion who continually shows that he probably wasn't the problem.

Rockets spent $40M on FVV, $20M on Dillon and they’re still most likely going to miss the play in tourney and lose a lottery pick.

I’d hold off on praising that move lol.

But yes, FVV wasn’t THE problem, he was just A problem, just like many other faucets of the team.
I do believe FVV shouldered too much of the blame for last season, not afraid to admit that. At the same time, FVV not being on the team is a positive for the future of this franchise.

[youreachiteach]

Toronto was clearly showcasing Precious because of his drop in value. We didn't keep him for this long because he doesn't have talent. Precious will always be better more as a SF 3 and D than a center with limited offensive responsibilities than a do it all center.