Jakob Poeltl: It makes no sense to try to win every single game

[Shakril]

poeltl understands you need to tank in this league. Leave him alone. no more Yak slander.

You obviously havent watch the video. He never talks about tanking not even hinting at it. He just says that development comes first.
This does not mean they dont try to win every single game, they just wont do it if they have to sacrifice said development.

[ItsDanger]

Poeltl doesn't state tanking explicitly. But he says team will play younger players through their mistakes as the goal is development over trying to win as many games as possible. FYI, that is a tactic employed by tanking teams.

He probably wants out to be on a playoff contender if there were available options. Who can blame him? Realistically, probably in '25 offseason. For better tank, as soon as possible.

As he's considered "undervalued", maybe Raps can get a better return than expected.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Poeltl doesn't state tanking explicitly. But he says team will play younger players through their mistakes as the goal is development over trying to win as many games as possible. FYI, that is a tactic employed by tanking teams.

He probably wants out to be on a playoff contender if there were available options. Who can blame him? Realistically, probably in '25 offseason. For better tank, as soon as possible.

As he's considered "undervalued", maybe Raps can get a better return than expected.

supply and demand is going to dictate when and if Poeltl gets moved, sometimes the market is loaded with traditional C's for sale and sometimes it is bone dry. but with the arrival of guys like clingan and edey who are going to be instant impact and potentially a couple more guys including zikarsky next year, there might be an overabundance of traditional 5s available which would really hurt his value

[ItsDanger]

Poeltl doesn't state tanking explicitly. But he says team will play younger players through their mistakes as the goal is development over trying to win as many games as possible. FYI, that is a tactic employed by tanking teams.

He probably wants out to be on a playoff contender if there were available options. Who can blame him? Realistically, probably in '25 offseason. For better tank, as soon as possible.

As he's considered "undervalued", maybe Raps can get a better return than expected.

supply and demand is going to dictate when and if Poeltl gets moved, sometimes the market is loaded with traditional C's for sale and sometimes it is bone dry. but with the arrival of guys like clingan and edey who are going to be instant impact and potentially a couple more guys including zikarsky next year, there might be an overabundance of traditional 5s available which would really hurt his value

I thought when he signed that it might be difficult to move him down the road. I'm just hoping I was wrong.

[Thaddy]

Jakob wants to be on a contender like all of his other friends are. Siakam, OG, and Fred are on better teams. The best he can do is raise his value and hope a contender forks over some picks to us. A team like NOP will be looking for a C at the deadline.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I feel like these points have all been made ad nauseum throughout this thread, but just in case someone missed it:

• Jakob was nothing but 100% honest in his response. Teams developing lots of young players have to play those players. Sometimes that's less likely to produce a win.
  
  
• In no way, shape, or form was he suggesting that he or other players shouldn't try to win. They will try to win. But the coaching staff isn't prioritizing "championship" first, so they may choose to put less-capable players on the floor to develop them, sacrificing wins for growth.
  
  
• This can be awful for fans in the short term, and a violation of the spirit of sport. But it's perfectly reasonable long term strategy. For some truly terrible teams, it's even a good thing, as fans may rather see the new phenom lose by 25 than see the crappy vets lose by 15.
  
  
• Jakob has to accept it, because he's likely to lose playing time because of it. Especially with multiple center prospects lining up behind him. Jakob has to sit and not play while inferior players try to learn enough to take his job completely. It's got to be some combination of infuriating, annoying, and embarrassing.
  
  
• Still, he's toeing the company line here, which is honorable. He could pout, scream, hold out, or any other number of childish responses, but he's not.
  
  
• If you still feel like complaining about this, then pick a new target. There's no shortage of candidates: Masai for setting the goal, Silver for not banning tanking outright, Darko for not quitting in protest.
  
  
• But Jakob deserves none of your vitriol. He's handling this like a pro.

/rant

My whole complaint is that this very management team developed Delon, Norm, JV, Jakob!, Pascal, OG, Fred and Scottie while winning. Of course, players can develop while losing, too. Players develop, period.

Some posters are rushing to defend Jakob, but his own statement here is a misdemeanour to me. It's an opportunity to discuss the felony.

We had far more depth at the time we were developing those guys. If Siakam played bad we didn’t have to worry because we had Patterson. If Wright played bad we had Joseph.

Who are the steady vets we have this year that we can play when IQ is off the floor? Who is our Patterson to backup Barnes this year? We are going to have to play young guys because the other option is another young guy. We are not in the same situation as when we were developing FVV or Siakam. How do you propose we bring young guys along slowly when that’s who are depth is?

You're clearly missing the point. These players will play because the team has been purposefully built with no depth, not because it's the best way to develop talent. Management has already stated their belief about what develops talent best, and they do have a pretty remarkable track record. Management is now selling you another story. They're actually selling you the only story they can.

There's a deeper truth revealed here and some hardcore fans are coming at this with a casual attitude, to be blunt. Teams don't just clear the runway for a bunch of second round and late first rookies to cut their teeth, even bad ones. That's why what Poeltl said isn't all that important or worth getting troubled over. It's poor form and unnecessary, but it reveals some organizational laziness and slippage that is worth discussing. Everyone still has their job, for now. All Masai seems to be able to promise is a future lotto talent yet to be drafted.

[Chandan]

Jakob wants to be on a contender like all of his other friends are. Siakam, OG, and Fred are on better teams. The best he can do is raise his value and hope a contender forks over some picks to us. A team like NOP will be looking for a C at the deadline.

Nah man Jakob wants to be a trainer and teach all the youngster how to play with a real big man.

That's why he wants the team to tank in order to gather more elite prospects around him. Without him they are doomed to playing with stretch bigs and losers that doesn't know how to set screens and pass. He's probably the difference between scottie becoming Aaron Gordon on magic or Aaron Gordon on denver.

[Thaddy]

Jakob wants to be on a contender like all of his other friends are. Siakam, OG, and Fred are on better teams. The best he can do is raise his value and hope a contender forks over some picks to us. A team like NOP will be looking for a C at the deadline.

Nah man Jakob wants to be a trainer and teach all the youngster how to play with a real big man.

That's why he wants the team to tank in order to gather more elite prospects around him. Without him they are doomed to playing with stretch bigs and losers that doesn't know how to set screens and pass. He's probably the difference between scottie becoming Aaron Gordon on magic or Aaron Gordon on denver.

The concern is that he's mailing it in and doesn't care for a championship. He's seeing Olynyk get a multimillion dollar contract and not contribute to winning at all.

The sad reality is that Poeltl's archetype isn't in demand and it actually hinders offenses. He doesn't have gravity when he sets picks and dives into the paint and he isn't stretching the floor. If we found a C talent like Ware in the draft we would be looking at a player who would have positive floor impact > +10 in his rookie season. That sounds far fetched but a raw Koloko wasn't too far off from that mark (+ 8.6 (?)).

[Chandan]

Jakob wants to be on a contender like all of his other friends are. Siakam, OG, and Fred are on better teams. The best he can do is raise his value and hope a contender forks over some picks to us. A team like NOP will be looking for a C at the deadline.

Nah man Jakob wants to be a trainer and teach all the youngster how to play with a real big man.

That's why he wants the team to tank in order to gather more elite prospects around him. Without him they are doomed to playing with stretch bigs and losers that doesn't know how to set screens and pass. He's probably the difference between scottie becoming Aaron Gordon on magic or Aaron Gordon on denver.

The concern is that he's mailing it in and doesn't care for a championship. He's seeing Olynyk get a multimillion dollar contract and not contribute to winning at all.

The sad reality is that Poeltl's archetype isn't in demand and it actually hinders offenses. He doesn't have gravity when he sets picks and dives into the paint and he isn't stretching the floor. If we found a C talent like Ware in the draft we would be looking at a player who would have positive floor impact > +10 in his rookie season. That sounds far fetched but a raw Koloko wasn't too far off from that mark (+ 8.6 (?)).

case in point, almost every game they spent the first 2 plays running set for him. Then afterwards he's an afterthought. For a guy that shoots like 65% he really doesn't apply much pressure at the rim.

[chargerxthirty]

clipped out of context.

pretty certain he's just saying... don't empty the clip with your players every night if there's not a realistic chance to win a given game or make the playoffs at a certain point. Rather, insert young players into situations that they otherwise would not be able to play in which will aid in their development. It's actually noble in many ways because we far too often see guys trying to stuff stat lines in non-winning scenarios to try to get contracts or raises. If this team has designs of growing together, guys will need to develop in situations that cannot be replicated on a practice floor. I've never questioned Poeltl's effort on the floor, so I'm not concerned about it.

[ConSarnit]

My whole complaint is that this very management team developed Delon, Norm, JV, Jakob!, Pascal, OG, Fred and Scottie while winning. Of course, players can develop while losing, too. Players develop, period.

Some posters are rushing to defend Jakob, but his own statement here is a misdemeanour to me. It's an opportunity to discuss the felony.

We had far more depth at the time we were developing those guys. If Siakam played bad we didn’t have to worry because we had Patterson. If Wright played bad we had Joseph.

Who are the steady vets we have this year that we can play when IQ is off the floor? Who is our Patterson to backup Barnes this year? We are going to have to play young guys because the other option is another young guy. We are not in the same situation as when we were developing FVV or Siakam. How do you propose we bring young guys along slowly when that’s who are depth is?

You're clearly missing the point. These players will play because the team has been purposefully built with no depth, not because it's the best way to develop talent. Management has already stated their belief about what develops talent best, and they do have a pretty remarkable track record. Management is now selling you another story. They're actually selling you the only story they can.

There's a deeper truth revealed here and some hardcore fans are coming at this with a casual attitude, to be blunt. Teams don't just clear the runway for a bunch of second round and late first rookies to cut their teeth, even bad ones. That's why what Poeltl said isn't all that important or worth getting troubled over. It's poor form and unnecessary, but it reveals some organizational laziness and slippage that is worth discussing. Everyone still has their job, for now. All Masai seems to be able to promise is a future lotto talent yet to be drafted.

You’re the one complaining about what Poeltl said. You’re the one who’s saying it’s poor form and a bad look. All I’ve said is that the comment was refreshing because someone isn’t just getting on the podium and saying empty platitudes. What’s going on here? Am I being gaslit?

[ConSarnit]

Jakob wants to be on a contender like all of his other friends are. Siakam, OG, and Fred are on better teams. The best he can do is raise his value and hope a contender forks over some picks to us. A team like NOP will be looking for a C at the deadline.

Nah man Jakob wants to be a trainer and teach all the youngster how to play with a real big man.

That's why he wants the team to tank in order to gather more elite prospects around him. Without him they are doomed to playing with stretch bigs and losers that doesn't know how to set screens and pass. He's probably the difference between scottie becoming Aaron Gordon on magic or Aaron Gordon on denver.

The concern is that he's mailing it in and doesn't care for a championship. He's seeing Olynyk get a multimillion dollar contract and not contribute to winning at all.

The sad reality is that Poeltl's archetype isn't in demand and it actually hinders offenses. He doesn't have gravity when he sets picks and dives into the paint and he isn't stretching the floor. If we found a C talent like Ware in the draft we would be looking at a player who would have positive floor impact > +10 in his rookie season. That sounds far fetched but a raw Koloko wasn't too far off from that mark (+ 8.6 (?)).

Absolutely delusional take. Do you know how many bigs have had even a +8 net rating over the past 20 years? 4. And three of them (Asik, Reed and Koloko) didn’t even play 15mpg (which means they weren’t even rotation level players). The only real rotation guy who has come close to your > +10 net rating is Chet and he was +9.

Your “far fetched” baseline has happened once in the past 20 years and it was Omer Asik who played 12mpg. You’re talking about 1/100 centers that are drafted. You should probably do some minimal research before posting such insane takes.

[Thaddy]

Nah man Jakob wants to be a trainer and teach all the youngster how to play with a real big man.

That's why he wants the team to tank in order to gather more elite prospects around him. Without him they are doomed to playing with stretch bigs and losers that doesn't know how to set screens and pass. He's probably the difference between scottie becoming Aaron Gordon on magic or Aaron Gordon on denver.

The concern is that he's mailing it in and doesn't care for a championship. He's seeing Olynyk get a multimillion dollar contract and not contribute to winning at all.

The sad reality is that Poeltl's archetype isn't in demand and it actually hinders offenses. He doesn't have gravity when he sets picks and dives into the paint and he isn't stretching the floor. If we found a C talent like Ware in the draft we would be looking at a player who would have positive floor impact > +10 in his rookie season. That sounds far fetched but a raw Koloko wasn't too far off from that mark (+ 8.6 (?)).

Absolutely delusional take. Do you know how many bigs have had even a +8 net rating over the past 20 years? 4. And three of them (Asik, Reed and Koloko) didn’t even play 15mpg (which means they weren’t even rotation level players). The only real rotation guy who has come close to your > +10 net rating is Chet and he was +9.

Your “far fetched” baseline has happened once in the past 20 years and it was Omer Asik who played 12mpg. You’re talking about 1/100 centers that are drafted. You should probably do some minimal research before posting such insane takes.

No one is expecting a rookie to come in and get 30+ minutes a game. If we used Ware in a similar manner to Koloko he'd have an even better +/-. If Chet was on a contender and used sparingly he would eclipse that benchmark easily. Chet is the best prototype in terms of a modern big he protects the rim and stretches the floor. That's the reason I'm hoping we draft Ivisic with a second pick next year.

[ConSarnit]

The concern is that he's mailing it in and doesn't care for a championship. He's seeing Olynyk get a multimillion dollar contract and not contribute to winning at all.

The sad reality is that Poeltl's archetype isn't in demand and it actually hinders offenses. He doesn't have gravity when he sets picks and dives into the paint and he isn't stretching the floor. If we found a C talent like Ware in the draft we would be looking at a player who would have positive floor impact > +10 in his rookie season. That sounds far fetched but a raw Koloko wasn't too far off from that mark (+ 8.6 (?)).

Absolutely delusional take. Do you know how many bigs have had even a +8 net rating over the past 20 years? 4. And three of them (Asik, Reed and Koloko) didn’t even play 15mpg (which means they weren’t even rotation level players). The only real rotation guy who has come close to your > +10 net rating is Chet and he was +9.

Your “far fetched” baseline has happened once in the past 20 years and it was Omer Asik who played 12mpg. You’re talking about 1/100 centers that are drafted. You should probably do some minimal research before posting such insane takes.

No one is expecting a rookie to come in and get 30+ minutes a game. If we used Ware in a similar manner to Koloko he'd have an even better +/-. If Chet was on a contender and used sparingly he would eclipse that benchmark easily. Chet is the best prototype in terms of a modern big he protects the rim and stretches the floor. That's the reason I'm hoping we draft Ivisic with a second pick next year.

The reasons those low minute rookies put up those numbers is because they play a lot of garbage time minutes or they rack up minutes at the end of the season. Both are scenarios where they are playing against bottom of the barrel talent. And if we’re going to be adding a low minute C why do we need to get rid of Poeltl? Poeltl doesn’t play big minutes and Olynyk can easily pair with a traditional C for 12mpg.

I would bet almost anything that Ware is not going to have a +10 net rating next year. There were only 7 centers who averaged +10 net ratings last year and they all played on either elite defensive teams (BOS) or they were Jokic or Embiid. None of them were rookies or even 2nd year players. If Ware is +10 that will be a big outlier.

[ATLTimekeeper]

We had far more depth at the time we were developing those guys. If Siakam played bad we didn’t have to worry because we had Patterson. If Wright played bad we had Joseph.

Who are the steady vets we have this year that we can play when IQ is off the floor? Who is our Patterson to backup Barnes this year? We are going to have to play young guys because the other option is another young guy. We are not in the same situation as when we were developing FVV or Siakam. How do you propose we bring young guys along slowly when that’s who are depth is?

You're clearly missing the point. These players will play because the team has been purposefully built with no depth, not because it's the best way to develop talent. Management has already stated their belief about what develops talent best, and they do have a pretty remarkable track record. Management is now selling you another story. They're actually selling you the only story they can.

There's a deeper truth revealed here and some hardcore fans are coming at this with a casual attitude, to be blunt. Teams don't just clear the runway for a bunch of second round and late first rookies to cut their teeth, even bad ones. That's why what Poeltl said isn't all that important or worth getting troubled over. It's poor form and unnecessary, but it reveals some organizational laziness and slippage that is worth discussing. Everyone still has their job, for now. All Masai seems to be able to promise is a future lotto talent yet to be drafted.

You’re the one complaining about what Poeltl said. You’re the one who’s saying it’s poor form and a bad look. All I’ve said is that the comment was refreshing because someone isn’t just getting on the podium and saying empty platitudes. What’s going on here? Am I being gaslit?

Check my first post on the subject. I only care about Poeltl's comment as it relates to management's shifting narrative. His comment is poor form, unnecessary and insulting to the paying customer, but it's just reflective of management.

[Thaddy]

Absolutely delusional take. Do you know how many bigs have had even a +8 net rating over the past 20 years? 4. And three of them (Asik, Reed and Koloko) didn’t even play 15mpg (which means they weren’t even rotation level players). The only real rotation guy who has come close to your > +10 net rating is Chet and he was +9.

Your “far fetched” baseline has happened once in the past 20 years and it was Omer Asik who played 12mpg. You’re talking about 1/100 centers that are drafted. You should probably do some minimal research before posting such insane takes.

No one is expecting a rookie to come in and get 30+ minutes a game. If we used Ware in a similar manner to Koloko he'd have an even better +/-. If Chet was on a contender and used sparingly he would eclipse that benchmark easily. Chet is the best prototype in terms of a modern big he protects the rim and stretches the floor. That's the reason I'm hoping we draft Ivisic with a second pick next year.

The reasons those low minute rookies put up those numbers is because they play a lot of garbage time minutes or they rack up minutes at the end of the season. Both are scenarios where they are playing against bottom of the barrel talent. And if we’re going to be adding a low minute C why do we need to get rid of Poeltl? Poeltl doesn’t play big minutes and Olynyk can easily pair with a traditional C for 12mpg.

I would bet almost anything that Ware is not going to have a +10 net rating next year. There were only 7 centers who averaged +10 net ratings last year and they all played on either elite defensive teams (BOS) or they were Jokic or Embiid. None of them were rookies or even 2nd year players. If Ware is +10 that will be a big outlier.

I said if you put Ware in Koloko's position where he played with several star and high end role players. That included Barnes, Siakam, OG, and FVV. Ware is much better than Koloko on both sides of the floor

[ConSarnit]

You're clearly missing the point. These players will play because the team has been purposefully built with no depth, not because it's the best way to develop talent. Management has already stated their belief about what develops talent best, and they do have a pretty remarkable track record. Management is now selling you another story. They're actually selling you the only story they can.

There's a deeper truth revealed here and some hardcore fans are coming at this with a casual attitude, to be blunt. Teams don't just clear the runway for a bunch of second round and late first rookies to cut their teeth, even bad ones. That's why what Poeltl said isn't all that important or worth getting troubled over. It's poor form and unnecessary, but it reveals some organizational laziness and slippage that is worth discussing. Everyone still has their job, for now. All Masai seems to be able to promise is a future lotto talent yet to be drafted.

You’re the one complaining about what Poeltl said. You’re the one who’s saying it’s poor form and a bad look. All I’ve said is that the comment was refreshing because someone isn’t just getting on the podium and saying empty platitudes. What’s going on here? Am I being gaslit?

Check my first post on the subject. I only care about Poeltl's comment as it relates to management's shifting narrative. His comment is poor form, unnecessary and insulting to the paying customer, but it's just reflective of management.

It is far more insulting to lie to the paying customer, which is far as I can tell no one is doing. Masai’s media day press conference was filled with the words “rebuild” and “development”. He specially said the team will play to win but that it was filled with young players, which is almost exactly what Poeltl was implying in his interview. The team is going to play to win but that might not be reflected in the results because of having to play young players. The front office has literally used the word “rebuild” and Poeltl confirmed that. So I ask: what is the shifting narrative you’re talking about if the front office acknowledges we’re rebuilding in their interviews?

[ConSarnit]

No one is expecting a rookie to come in and get 30+ minutes a game. If we used Ware in a similar manner to Koloko he'd have an even better +/-. If Chet was on a contender and used sparingly he would eclipse that benchmark easily. Chet is the best prototype in terms of a modern big he protects the rim and stretches the floor. That's the reason I'm hoping we draft Ivisic with a second pick next year.

The reasons those low minute rookies put up those numbers is because they play a lot of garbage time minutes or they rack up minutes at the end of the season. Both are scenarios where they are playing against bottom of the barrel talent. And if we’re going to be adding a low minute C why do we need to get rid of Poeltl? Poeltl doesn’t play big minutes and Olynyk can easily pair with a traditional C for 12mpg.

I would bet almost anything that Ware is not going to have a +10 net rating next year. There were only 7 centers who averaged +10 net ratings last year and they all played on either elite defensive teams (BOS) or they were Jokic or Embiid. None of them were rookies or even 2nd year players. If Ware is +10 that will be a big outlier.

I said if you put Ware in Koloko's position where he played with several star and high end role players. That included Barnes, Siakam, OG, and FVV. Ware is much better than Koloko on both sides of the floor

What evidence is there that Ware is better than Koloko on the defensive end? Ware was drafted because of his size, athleticism and offensive upside. Almost every scout questioned his motor and engagement. Koloko was a better rim protector than Ware in college.

If Ware were as good as Koloko defensively why did he fall out of the top 10 in a bad draft? Athletic 7ft 20 year old big men who average 16/10, shoot 40% from 3 AND are good defenders don’t fall the way Ware did. Ware fell because of his defensive/motor questions.