PANDABREAD wrote:Jcity08 wrote:PANDABREAD wrote:
If everyone was aware that he is not playing well on purpose then whose fault is it that he got undervalued? Bobcock certainly had the option to say no to trade offers but he went with a player that doesnt want to and literally didnt play here and other mediocre ones. Even with the Kawhi Spurs to Raptors trade the Spurs still got good players from that trade despite of the circumstances.
Not one person argues that the FO was competent, VC however does not and will not be absolved of accountability for his part on how things went down. I'm sorry but its not a serious discussion to have, when we have evidence for the massive dip in performance during that time and the antics like declaring to never dunk anymore among others during that time.
I'm sorry, I'm just not going to absolve him of the decisions he made during his forced departure of the team because the FO was also ****.
**** VC and the FO (Grunwald & Babcock god rest his soul).
Why do you keep on saying you have evidence of this and evidence of that? I already said I know all of those and I'm not denying that they happened so it's really weird that you're making it sound like I am denying them. Vince gave them a chance to trade him early on but the GM was stubborn so then he had to do what he did, was the thing he did good? 1000x no but when a simple request is not working and being downplayed even then anyone in his shoes will also do whatever they can to escape the potential disaster, which he was right btw. Vince was in his prime at this time so he can't be in a rebuilding or uncertain situation which the management subjected him to by firing almost the whole coaching staff and not consulting with him at least on the replacements.
I emphasize the evidence because it supports the claim that Vince made a concious decisions to be a petulant man-child and tank his own value, I don't care that he wanted out, my point is he is fully responsibile for his own actions including how he went out, dude had buyers remorse from signing the extension and didn't want to wait until he was a Free Agent so he made a stink about it until he was forced to be moved.
The FO being trash doesn't change the fact that he has a part to play on how things unfolded and I'm not going to pretend he didnt force a trade and tank his value on the way out.
PANDABREAD wrote:You don't need to forgive him or anything and I don't think Vince cares anyway based on his speech so we'll just agree to disagree. But to other readers or anyone there when it happened and is still hurt by it should at least know that it wasn't a random tantrum but more of a desperation from his end to make sure his prime won't get wasted.
Whether I forgive him or not is irrelevant, I'm just not going to paint this as a matter of opinion. Vince Carter forced his way out and tanked his value and acted unprofessionally along the way which is well documented. Whats opinion, is thinking his own career decisions are justified because of the FO handling of the team. I comfortably don't agree because I don't believe anything justifies how he handled the departure, nor do I believe the reverse, that anything justifies the FOs incompetence. I equally find both to be unjustified.
Also while I can understand the "desperation" angle, I also don't agree with it but that is my opinion and I have nothing to support my claim. I just don't find that very convincing but thats just my own bias.
I refuse to accept the framing that he had no choice but to be a little bitch to get traded to New Jersey for peanuts. **** that, the FO played their part in the fiasco but he also had a starring role in that drama and I'm not going to accept the notion that because the FO was trash, he holds no responsibility for forcing a trade, tanking his value and being unprofessional like declaring he'll never dunk as a Raptor and then doing windmill dunks as soon as he landed in New Jersey, thats not desperation.
