PG: Raptors Win

[Mattatron]

"OG being consequential to winning" is not an assertion that can be proven by anything in his career. It's just a talking point cliche.

He never came close to fred or siakam in adjusted plus/minus or in real plus/minus over what? 6 seasons?

Where's the data about the whole winning thing? His current team is 500 in a historically weak conference and is loaded with star players.

"That group" is presumably referring to RJ, IQ and the 2nd rounder. There is no stat or eye test where RJ comes out ahead of OG. As for NYK, their record with OG last year was 20-3 and their defense improved measurably.

RJ's stats are better than OGs. More rebounds. More points. More assists. Obviously that's a function of usage but nonetheless. It's not true that there is "no stat" in which RJ comes out ahead.

RJ is also 3 years younger than OG and is making 20 million less per season.

You are cherry-picking a two month period from OG's entire career to show that he is a "winning player". Also....I believe the knicks defense is pretty bad this year (based on stats...I haven't watched more than 2 or 3 games).

I know that people call him a winning player. There's just nothing that actually proves it's true.

It does seem a little weird that ppl are so pessimistic about RJ. Isn't he younger than IQ? Maybe perceptions are off because he started playing at such a young age? I mean....he's taken a giant leap in playmaking this year at the age of 24 (I wonder if Barnes' game has rubbed off on him cause alot of his passes LOOK like Barnes). People seem strangely ho-hum about the growth in his game. But I guess it's all in perception.

Are you serious ? "RJ's stats are better than OGs. More rebounds. More points. More assists." Look at OG's Win Shares, and then RJ's.
And then the DPBM.
Don't matter that RJ is averaging more assists or Reb. OG is playing next to Brunson, KAT and Bridges, while RJ is playing next to scrubs.
Look at his usage of 32% compared to OG's 18%, and he only averaging 5 more points.

Again, stats don't matter if you are an inefficient chucker. OG is definitely more of an proven NBA player and hard nosed, who could be easily a cornerstone on every contending team, mainly because he's so versatile. No one would say that about RJ.

And yeah ur right, rj is making 20M$ less money,
But that's his first real contract, wait until the second contract comes. He will easily demand OG Numbers or even higher I think. OG is at his 2nd Contract.

Knicks Defense this year is ok, but they knew that after losing Hartenstein, trading Randle and DiVincenzo for an offensive minded KAT to support Brunson, and Mitch Robinson is still injured.

I don't know what to expect from Quickley.
For me this was a bad trade and masai fumbled big time. Same goes for Siakam. Should've traded them years ago.

[Los_29]

"That group" is presumably referring to RJ, IQ and the 2nd rounder. There is no stat or eye test where RJ comes out ahead of OG. As for NYK, their record with OG last year was 20-3 and their defense improved measurably.

RJ's stats are better than OGs. More rebounds. More points. More assists. Obviously that's a function of usage but nonetheless. It's not true that there is "no stat" in which RJ comes out ahead.

RJ is also 3 years younger than OG and is making 20 million less per season.

You are cherry-picking a two month period from OG's entire career to show that he is a "winning player". Also....I believe the knicks defense is pretty bad this year (based on stats...I haven't watched more than 2 or 3 games).

I know that people call him a winning player. There's just nothing that actually proves it's true.

It does seem a little weird that ppl are so pessimistic about RJ. Isn't he younger than IQ? Maybe perceptions are off because he started playing at such a young age? I mean....he's taken a giant leap in playmaking this year at the age of 24 (I wonder if Barnes' game has rubbed off on him cause alot of his passes LOOK like Barnes). People seem strangely ho-hum about the growth in his game. But I guess it's all in perception.

Are you serious ? "RJ's stats are better than OGs. More rebounds. More points. More assists." Look at OG's Win Shares, and then RJ's.
And then the DPBM.
Don't matter that RJ is averaging more assists or Reb. OG is playing next to Brunson, KAT and Bridges, while RJ is playing next to scrubs.
Look at his usage of 32% compared to OG's 18%, and he only averaging 5 more points.

Again, stats don't matter if you are an inefficient chucker. OG is definitely more of an proven NBA player and hard nosed, who could be easily a cornerstone on every contending team, mainly because he's so versatile. No one would say that about RJ.

And yeah ur right, rj is making 20M$ less money,
But that's his first real contract, wait until the second contract comes. He will easily demand OG Numbers or even higher I think. OG is at his 2nd Contract.

Knicks Defense this year is ok, but they knew that after losing Hartenstein, trading Randle and DiVincenzo for an offensive minded KAT to support Brunson, and Mitch Robinson is still injured.

I don't know what to expect from Quickley.
For me this was a bad trade and masai fumbled big time. Same goes for Siakam. Should've traded them years ago.

It was an amazing trade and it would be difficult to find anyone that would dispute that. In fact, you’re the first person I’ve seen that has said it wasn’t good for us. OG is a good player but he’s making a lot of money. Way too much money for a guy that can’t stay healthy.

I’d have been happy with just getting IQ and that pick. We got RJ who is not without his flaws and he’s not yet a great player but you can see the tools he has.

[Tor_Raps]

I agree the Bucks and Sixers won’t end up at the bottom of the East, when so many teams in the East will be actively tanking by the end of the season, but these early season struggles against weak competition, clearly shows neither of these teams are true contenders in the East. The Bucks have just aged out, even with Giannis still playing like a superstar. And the Sixers clearly couldn’t build a contender with one key signing.

The joke of it all in the East, is the team currently unbeaten, still has to get over the hurdle of looking like a competent team in the playoffs.

The East might be the Celtics to run away with, even in spite of their injuries/age to their 2 bigs.

The Celtics also slapped the western conference team in the finals. Not only do they walk to a title in the east but the West as well unless something changes.

The Playoffs i watch, the Celtics never had a tough Series in the east, cause each one of their opponents where missing multiple key guys. This lead to a cakewalk to a final seriesn, where they were rested.

Dallas on the other hand, had to go through the western gauntlet, that is brutal to begin with. Reaching the finals, they already where somewhat exhausted, you literally could see that.

So no, Boston wont have a cakewalk again, unless ofc, everbody else will be injured again.

Both the Celtics and Mavericks had more than enough redt before the Finals actually began. The Celtics made every team look like a joke regardless if they were from the East or West.

And yes, I understand the injuries argument but the Celtics also played without Porzingis for most of their run. It's like people don't count that but count other teams injuries lol

[brownbobcat]

RJ's stats are better than OGs. More rebounds. More points. More assists. Obviously that's a function of usage but nonetheless. It's not true that there is "no stat" in which RJ comes out ahead.

Raw counting stats, sure. But OG is massively ahead in terms of efficiency, defense and versatility. Again, I understand they have very different roles. On a winning team, OG would still start and play 30-35 mpg. RJ would struggle like he did in NY because he isn't great offball, isn't elite on-ball and isn't a knockdown shooter. The things RJ does better than OG are not things he'd be doing on very good teams.

On this team for the next few years, I think RJ fits better - particularly with IQ in the mix as well. But if we're comparing RJ vs OG heads up, there isn't a contender out there who would prefer RJ.

[DelAbbot]

RJ's stats are better than OGs. More rebounds. More points. More assists. Obviously that's a function of usage but nonetheless. It's not true that there is "no stat" in which RJ comes out ahead.

Raw counting stats, sure. But OG is massively ahead in terms of efficiency, defense and versatility. Again, I understand they have very different roles. On a winning team, OG would still start and play 30-35 mpg. RJ would struggle like he did in NY because he isn't great offball, isn't elite on-ball and isn't a knockdown shooter. The things RJ does better than OG are not things he'd be doing on very good teams.

On this team for the next few years, I think RJ fits better - particularly with IQ in the mix as well. But if we're comparing RJ vs OG heads up, there isn't a contender out there who would prefer RJ.

So basically, RJ is a floor raiser, and OG is a ceiling raiser.

Playoff teams want OG.

Teams trying to get back to relevance want RJ (at 20M cheaper)

[MEDIC]

For me this was a bad trade and masai fumbled big time. Same goes for Siakam. Should've traded them years ago.

An expiring OG for Barrett, Quickley & a pick is a bad trade? What did you expect to get for him??

This trade will go down as one of Masai's best.

Siakam wasn't great, but if you combine the deals, I would say they did pretty well for 2 expiring contracts.

[MEDIC]

Raptors now creeping upward in +/-.

They are 24th at -5.4, which is a full point better than last season (-6.4).

[steveholt]

Savannah was more impressive than the win gawd daaym