Vampirate wrote:djsunyc wrote:becoming a contender for a chip is very difficult regardless of what path is taken. in general, i dont think there's any reason to take a strong stance on any one particular path.
masai will do what he does. it will either work or it wont. its okay to just sit back and watch stuff play out. he is not afraid to add and he is not afraid to divest. we've already had a great decade under his leadership. now we are onto the next chapter.Shwaguy wrote:Okay, but how many of those guys we're actually drafted by tanking teams? How many guys didn't develop right because they WERE drafted to tanking teams.
Picking higher increases your chances but doesn't guarantee anything, and finishing last doesn't even guarantee you'll pick first or 2nd or 3rd or even 4th now! So why would you prefer to see the young stars faulter just for the slight chance you get something new and shiny when odds are the young star that you are essentially rooting to see faulter has a better chance of becoming that shiny piece than you do of getting that piece by thanks of tanking?PushDaRock wrote:I don't think anyone is advocating for not building through the draft. We literally all want draft picks and ideally as high as possible. Some of us just understand that in order to be in contention for a guaranteed top 5 pick with our current roster is not realistic without a special set of circumstances. We aren't like Washington who can play their best players and still lose every game. What do you want us to do? Sit out our best players less than 20 games into the season?
Drafting a superstar still requires an incredible amount of luck. There's maybe 1 legit Superstar that comes out of every 3 drafts. A generational talent maybe comes every 7 drafts or so. Assuming you have lottery luck which is already a big factor, but then you also need to get lucky in the right draft with the right player. So many times there is a consensus top pick that doesn't work out like Fultz, Wiseman, Bagley and etc. Then you have someone like Wiggins who was considered generational and was just as hyped as Flagg or any prospect in this draft now and he's just had an average career. As hyped as every prospect is, the vast majority of them just do not reach anywhere to their hypothetical ceilings.
If we genuinely had zero pieces on this roster worth building around or just 1 at best, sure tear it all down, get rid of everyone and bottom out. We just realistically aren't in that position with this roster.
I'll just reply to you three in 1.
In general we are playing for development, not wins, our bench is getting plenty of time.
There's definitely frustration with the fan base as some want to trade the pick for help which is dumb. The other frustration is the simple fact that for as bad as we've started, the East is just wretched outside the top 4. I'm just hoping the 76ers go on a run. Atlanta is the 7th seed with a .412 winning percentage.
I'd be less 'worried' if we were in the West as we'd have no shot at the play in there.
In the East though? We could make the play in with a .400 record, make the 8th seed (because look at who's in the play in currently) and not add talent.
The biggest worry isn't really our record, it's just the East.
Ideally RJ, Barnes and Gradey all have impact stats and win the starter battle (I want Barnes to be all star good and still lose games) but our bench keeps blowing the games.
I just have legit worries about us advancing upwards mostly because a .375 team is the 10th seed currently.
We're going to need luck in either Barnes seriously developing our straight up lottery luck. I just don't want to be stuck like the Hawks currently are.
Also I swear if the Pels get another #1 pick.....
Yes we are playing for development and not wins. 100% agreed. We will not see any draft picks traded for vets and win-now guys.
The way the roster gels and the young guys develop with minutes and opportunity will dictate which way this goes. We literally have not seen BBQ+D play together a single minute this season. That needs to happen for long stretches this season before we truly see what this roster is capable of...and even IF we finish in play-in range...it will not mean we are a treadmill team going forward. It will mean we are still developing our young guys but the next step could be a jump into the playoffs and who knows after that. If it was the Siakam/VanVleet/Anunoby core and group of vets like Thad Young, etc. that finishes in play-in range...then ya we'd be tread milling then. But we have about 6 to 7 guys in the rotation that are 25 and under...so this is a young team.
Let's not stick the treadmill label on this roster just yet.
As it has been said...playing BBQ+D for long stretches this season...I really do hope that this core is good because if you are playing them big minutes and they are still losing...it would suggest that they suck and would certainly point to a much bigger problem. These guys have pride and I'm sure they will play hard to prove that they are worth building around.
To me...wishing for tanking is a coping mechanism for when your best player(s) get injured with season-ending injuries or the roster is ripped to the studs with obvious direction to build through the draft. The 2024-25 Raptors at this moment is neither. We shouldn't cheer for the failure of the team otherwise.