PG (Cavs): The Ethical Tank Returns

[Los_29]

I know exactly how good he is. He’s not a franchise changing talent. He’s a good player with some glaring weaknesses.

I mean I can admit he could be a franchise changer - but like any other young guy it is impossible to say if will happen or not.

He could have a Kawhi like career or could just be a defender and opportunistic scorer and that is it.

But he is 22, and considering how people talk like RJ is ancient, I guess Amen has 12 months to be a star or they should trade him

RJ has been in the league for 6 years and hasn’t addressed a lot of the same issues he had since day 1. It’s nothing like Amen. You guys are hilarious with your bias.

Well it’s a good thing I’m not an RJ fan. I’d rather Amen than RJ. Would I purposely tank for either of them? No.

I’m shocked at how much you guys overhype players on other teams. I like Amen but the chances of this guy being a superstar is close to zero. He’s a good player who can play a role on a contending team. Not a superstar though. Is he even an all-star caliber player if his shot and passing don’t develop?

You guys are lying to yourself if you think ending up with Amen Thompson is a great outcome for a team that loses 60 games.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Who loves tanking? Tanking is an admission that you have currently failed to build the required sustainable team to be relevant.

Just because you feel the team should tank does not mean you like it. This crap is miserable for everyone but if you can offer the alternative then I'd love to hear it lol.

There's never an alternative given. If the previous core showed that it could be the heart of a 50-win team, I'd say that's worth pursuing even if there's no "superstar" and it wasn't a true title contender. It reached a point where it could no longer be ignored that they needed to move on from Siakam + OG.

Just because I'm not totally sold on BBQ or complain about their flaws doesn't mean I still don't think tWo is the path for now. Let 'em play, let them work through it but keep drafting and explore trades paths. Don't make any dumb moves like trading picks for older non-stars like Zach Lavine, the core has to prove they can at least sniff .500 before any future assets are given up. I think by 2026, it will become obvious whether they continue with BBQ or move at least 1.

If they drafted Flagg and he was a bust, am I going to call him a bum? Of course, but that doesn't meant the strategy was wrong. It means they have to roll the dice again and not that they should've traded the pick for Julius Randle.

tbf they did win 48 with a rookie Scottie (2 off of 50). That's the path that Masai chose as well.

The following year's Poeltl trade was also weird, because I think a lot of posters forget that after they traded for Poeltl, they were still shopping Fred and OG. Then they pivoted to trying to re-sign Fred. And then Masai took shots at Fred and decided to stop talking to Pascal while trying to re-sign OG. That's a lot of dumb/bad management by Masai, and here we are.

Since Masai made so many mistakes in execution, I don't think he should be trusted with rebuilding. Everything is already married to his previous decisions.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I mean I can admit he could be a franchise changer - but like any other young guy it is impossible to say if will happen or not.

He could have a Kawhi like career or could just be a defender and opportunistic scorer and that is it.

But he is 22, and considering how people talk like RJ is ancient, I guess Amen has 12 months to be a star or they should trade him

RJ has been in the league for 6 years and hasn’t addressed a lot of the same issues he had since day 1. It’s nothing like Amen. You guys are hilarious with your bias.

Well it’s a good thing I’m not an RJ fan. I’d rather Amen than RJ. Would I purposely tank for either of them? No.

I’m shocked at how much you guys overhype players on other teams. I like Amen but the chances of this guy being a superstar is close to zero. He’s a good player who can play a role on a contending team. Not a superstar though. Is he even an all-star caliber player if his shot and passing don’t develop?

You guys are lying to yourself if you think ending up with Amen Thompson is a great outcome for a team that loses 60 games.

A lot of the Amen hype here is because they want to justify 1) tanking 2) minimize the impact of Fred and Dillon Brooks 3) defensive athletes/dunkers are FUN!

You know if he played for us the same people would be spamming the board about everything he can't do.

[720]

I mean I can admit he could be a franchise changer - but like any other young guy it is impossible to say if will happen or not.

He could have a Kawhi like career or could just be a defender and opportunistic scorer and that is it.

But he is 22, and considering how people talk like RJ is ancient, I guess Amen has 12 months to be a star or they should trade him

RJ has been in the league for 6 years and hasn’t addressed a lot of the same issues he had since day 1. It’s nothing like Amen. You guys are hilarious with your bias.

Well it’s a good thing I’m not an RJ fan. I’d rather Amen than RJ. Would I purposely tank for either of them? No.

I’m shocked at how much you guys overhype players on other teams. I like Amen but the chances of this guy being a superstar is close to zero. He’s a good player who can play a role on a contending team. Not a superstar though. Is he even an all-star caliber player if his shot and passing don’t develop?

You guys are lying to yourself if you think ending up with Amen Thompson is a great outcome for a team that loses 60 games.

Let‘s go back in time. If the option was tank and you get Amen Thompson to add next to Scottie, where he becomes a part of the core, has the same timeline as Scottie, has the growth potential to become an amazing starter or maybe even an all star calibre player or you run on the treadmill with Siakam and Fred, I would choose the Amen route. Especially because we would have gotten SOMETHING for Fred instead of letting him walk.

[Shakril]

Who loves tanking? Tanking is an admission that you have currently failed to build the required sustainable team to be relevant.

Just because you feel the team should tank does not mean you like it. This crap is miserable for everyone but if you can offer the alternative then I'd love to hear it lol.

There's never an alternative given. If the previous core showed that it could be the heart of a 50-win team, I'd say that's worth pursuing even if there's no "superstar" and it wasn't a true title contender. It reached a point where it could no longer be ignored that they needed to move on from Siakam + OG.

Just because I'm not totally sold on BBQ or complain about their flaws doesn't mean I still don't think tWo is the path for now. Let 'em play, let them work through it but keep drafting and explore trades paths. Don't make any dumb moves like trading picks for older non-stars like Zach Lavine, the core has to prove they can at least sniff .500 before any future assets are given up. I think by 2026, it will become obvious whether they continue with BBQ or move at least 1.

If they drafted Flagg and he was a bust, am I going to call him a bum? Of course, but that doesn't meant the strategy was wrong. It means they have to roll the dice again and not that they should've traded the pick for Julius Randle.

tbf they did win 48 with a rookie Scottie (2 off of 50). That's the path that Masai chose as well.

The following year's Poeltl trade was also weird, because I think a lot of posters forget that after they traded for Poeltl, they were still shopping Fred and OG. Then they pivoted to trying to re-sign Fred. And then Masai took shots at Fred and decided to stop talking to Pascal while trying to re-sign OG. That's a lot of dumb/bad management by Masai, and here we are.

Since Masai made so many mistakes in execution, I don't think he should be trusted with rebuilding. Everything is already married to his previous decisions.

Didnt Masai trade for Poeltl exactly cause he coudlnt get rid of FVV and Siakam for a reasonable price? I dont think there was much shopping goin on afte the trade.

Did i miss something here?

[720]

RJ has been in the league for 6 years and hasn’t addressed a lot of the same issues he had since day 1. It’s nothing like Amen. You guys are hilarious with your bias.

Well it’s a good thing I’m not an RJ fan. I’d rather Amen than RJ. Would I purposely tank for either of them? No.

I’m shocked at how much you guys overhype players on other teams. I like Amen but the chances of this guy being a superstar is close to zero. He’s a good player who can play a role on a contending team. Not a superstar though. Is he even an all-star caliber player if his shot and passing don’t develop?

You guys are lying to yourself if you think ending up with Amen Thompson is a great outcome for a team that loses 60 games.

A lot of the Amen hype here is because they want to justify 1) tanking 2) minimize the impact of Fred and Dillon Brooks 3) defensive athletes/dunkers are FUN!

You know if he played for us the same people would be spamming the board about everything he can't do.

You Fred fanboys do realize the man left for nothing right? Like we got nothing for him. Allowed him to chuck up shots for 2 years to boost his own value, undermine the rebuild/development of Scottie and delay the INEVITABLE, only for him to walk. It was a trash decision to not tank for Wemby, Miller, Amen, etc then and it still is now. EVEN if we drafted Scoot and he ended up being a bust on our roster (that’s not a given, we could have developed him better than the blazers), I would still pick that route over what we actually ended up doing.

[Los_29]

RJ has been in the league for 6 years and hasn’t addressed a lot of the same issues he had since day 1. It’s nothing like Amen. You guys are hilarious with your bias.

Well it’s a good thing I’m not an RJ fan. I’d rather Amen than RJ. Would I purposely tank for either of them? No.

I’m shocked at how much you guys overhype players on other teams. I like Amen but the chances of this guy being a superstar is close to zero. He’s a good player who can play a role on a contending team. Not a superstar though. Is he even an all-star caliber player if his shot and passing don’t develop?

You guys are lying to yourself if you think ending up with Amen Thompson is a great outcome for a team that loses 60 games.

A lot of the Amen hype here is because they want to justify 1) tanking 2) minimize the impact of Fred and Dillon Brooks 3) defensive athletes/dunkers are FUN!

You know if he played for us the same people would be spamming the board about everything he can't do.

Yeah for sure. Amen is a good player and has helped that team win games this year. But it must certainly sting knowing that they were a perennial lottery team until undrafted Fred got there.

[Shakril]

RJ has been in the league for 6 years and hasn’t addressed a lot of the same issues he had since day 1. It’s nothing like Amen. You guys are hilarious with your bias.

Well it’s a good thing I’m not an RJ fan. I’d rather Amen than RJ. Would I purposely tank for either of them? No.

I’m shocked at how much you guys overhype players on other teams. I like Amen but the chances of this guy being a superstar is close to zero. He’s a good player who can play a role on a contending team. Not a superstar though. Is he even an all-star caliber player if his shot and passing don’t develop?

You guys are lying to yourself if you think ending up with Amen Thompson is a great outcome for a team that loses 60 games.

Let‘s go back in time. If the option was tank and you get Amen Thompson to add next to Scottie, where he becomes a part of the core, has the same timeline as Scottie, has the growth potential to become an amazing starter or maybe even an all star calibre player or you run on the treadmill with Siakam and Fred, I would choose the Amen route. Especially because we would have gotten SOMETHING for Fred instead of letting him walk.

Thats a lot of painting the perfect picture without considering what else could have happen.

Everything i say is with the timestamp of FEB 9th - the trade that so many hate

First there is no guarantee we get the 4th pick (which would have been necessary).
Second the idea of tanking with FVV, OG and Siakam it doesnt feel logical. Ofc if we could have got rid of all 3 at the trade deadline, but then we wouldnt have traded for yak in the first place and our entire situation would be different. But that, we know, was not possible unless we trade erm for pennies. So our ranking would be slightly worse, but not signifcant enough.
Third what if we even fall in the draft as 2 other teams overtake us? Best case scenario we pick 5th. 3 teams finished worse than 26 wins, which we had feb 9, and the hornets only had 27. We would had to lose 25 games in a row with FVV, OG and Siakam. But we could also have picked 7th? The chances to move up or stay (or get worst) are more or less even, so a coin toss. So at 5th and after its literally a lottery of who pans out. Lively for example is a possibilty, but he aint a star. We would be in the same situation as right now. The only main difference is the pick of 2024, but that also is a lottery. Ofc everybody now knows they would have picked edey. And everything i said is the best case scenario.

[720]

Well it’s a good thing I’m not an RJ fan. I’d rather Amen than RJ. Would I purposely tank for either of them? No.

I’m shocked at how much you guys overhype players on other teams. I like Amen but the chances of this guy being a superstar is close to zero. He’s a good player who can play a role on a contending team. Not a superstar though. Is he even an all-star caliber player if his shot and passing don’t develop?

You guys are lying to yourself if you think ending up with Amen Thompson is a great outcome for a team that loses 60 games.

Let‘s go back in time. If the option was tank and you get Amen Thompson to add next to Scottie, where he becomes a part of the core, has the same timeline as Scottie, has the growth potential to become an amazing starter or maybe even an all star calibre player or you run on the treadmill with Siakam and Fred, I would choose the Amen route. Especially because we would have gotten SOMETHING for Fred instead of letting him walk.

Thats a lot of painting the perfect picture without considering what else could have happen.

Everything i say is with the timestamp of FEB 9th - the trade that so many hate

First there is no guarantee we get the 4th pick (which would have been necessary).
Second the idea of tanking with FVV, OG and Siakam it doesnt feel logical. Ofc if we could have got rid of all 3 at the trade deadline, but then we wouldnt have traded for yak in the first place and our entire situation would be different. But that, we know, was not possible unless we trade erm for pennies. So our ranking would be slightly worse, but not signifcant enough.
Third what if we even fall in the draft as 2 other teams overtake us? Best case scenario we pick 5th. 3 teams finished worse than 26 wins, which we had feb 9, and the hornets only had 27. We would had to lose 25 games in a row with FVV, OG and Siakam. But we could also have picked 7th? The chances to move up or stay (or get worst) are more or less even, so a coin toss. So at 5th and after it’s literally a lottery of who pans out. Lively for example is a possibilty, but he aint a star. We would be in the same situation as right now. The only main difference is the pick of 2024, but that also is a lottery. Ofc everybody now knows they would have picked edey. And everything i said is the best case scenario.

We can just look at what actually ended up happening to decide whether it was a good decision or not. That dumbass trade did nothing but slow down the rebuild (the exact position we are in right now). Pro tankers all said we’re making the wrong decision at that time (adding talent, not trading our established stars). We ended up having no success, traded Siakam for pennies on the dollar and lost Vanvleet for nothing.

The lottery is a lottery we all know this. It’s a numbers game, the higher you are the better odds. We all know the downsides. It’s still a long game. It’s better than wasting two years trying to push for the playin. MASAI KNOWS THIS, he learned from his mistakes. We’re rebuilding now, his decisions have been a direct indictment on Team Mediocre. Or else he would run the franchise like Chicago.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Well it’s a good thing I’m not an RJ fan. I’d rather Amen than RJ. Would I purposely tank for either of them? No.

I’m shocked at how much you guys overhype players on other teams. I like Amen but the chances of this guy being a superstar is close to zero. He’s a good player who can play a role on a contending team. Not a superstar though. Is he even an all-star caliber player if his shot and passing don’t develop?

You guys are lying to yourself if you think ending up with Amen Thompson is a great outcome for a team that loses 60 games.

A lot of the Amen hype here is because they want to justify 1) tanking 2) minimize the impact of Fred and Dillon Brooks 3) defensive athletes/dunkers are FUN!

You know if he played for us the same people would be spamming the board about everything he can't do.

You Fred fanboys do realize the man left for nothing right? Like we got nothing for him. Allowed him to chuck up shots for 2 years to boost his own value, undermine the rebuild/development of Scottie and delay the INEVITABLE, only for him to walk. It was a trash decision to not tank for Wemby, Miller, Amen, etc then and it still is now. EVEN if we drafted Scoot and he ended up being a bust on our roster (that’s not a given, we could have developed him better than the blazers), I would still pick that route over what we actually ended up doing.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, sorry.

[720]

A lot of the Amen hype here is because they want to justify 1) tanking 2) minimize the impact of Fred and Dillon Brooks 3) defensive athletes/dunkers are FUN!

You know if he played for us the same people would be spamming the board about everything he can't do.

You Fred fanboys do realize the man left for nothing right? Like we got nothing for him. Allowed him to chuck up shots for 2 years to boost his own value, undermine the rebuild/development of Scottie and delay the INEVITABLE, only for him to walk. It was a trash decision to not tank for Wemby, Miller, Amen, etc then and it still is now. EVEN if we drafted Scoot and he ended up being a bust on our roster (that’s not a given, we could have developed him better than the blazers), I would still pick that route over what we actually ended up doing.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, sorry.

Amen is a great prospect and his hype is warranted. Tanking doesn’t need justification it is totally the right decision to make. We messed up by not doing it sooner.

[YogurtProducer]

A lot of the Amen hype here is because they want to justify 1) tanking 2) minimize the impact of Fred and Dillon Brooks 3) defensive athletes/dunkers are FUN!

You know if he played for us the same people would be spamming the board about everything he can't do.

You Fred fanboys do realize the man left for nothing right? Like we got nothing for him. Allowed him to chuck up shots for 2 years to boost his own value, undermine the rebuild/development of Scottie and delay the INEVITABLE, only for him to walk. It was a trash decision to not tank for Wemby, Miller, Amen, etc then and it still is now. EVEN if we drafted Scoot and he ended up being a bust on our roster (that’s not a given, we could have developed him better than the blazers), I would still pick that route over what we actually ended up doing.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, sorry.

If you just read all of his posts and assume FVV stole his girlfriend, it makes a lot more sense.

[720]

You Fred fanboys do realize the man left for nothing right? Like we got nothing for him. Allowed him to chuck up shots for 2 years to boost his own value, undermine the rebuild/development of Scottie and delay the INEVITABLE, only for him to walk. It was a trash decision to not tank for Wemby, Miller, Amen, etc then and it still is now. EVEN if we drafted Scoot and he ended up being a bust on our roster (that’s not a given, we could have developed him better than the blazers), I would still pick that route over what we actually ended up doing.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, sorry.

If you just read all of his posts and assume FVV stole his girlfriend, it makes a lot more sense.

Literally every prediction you’ve made the past 4 years have been wrong.

[Chandan]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, sorry.

If you just read all of his posts and assume FVV stole his girlfriend, it makes a lot more sense.

Literally every prediction you’ve made the past 4 years have been wrong.

You are forgetting the main part, wrong AND be condescending the entire time.

[720]

If you just read all of his posts and assume FVV stole his girlfriend, it makes a lot more sense.

Literally every prediction you’ve made the past 4 years have been wrong.

You are forgetting the main part, wrong AND be condescending the entire time.

Oh that’s a common trait amongst these guys.

[Los_29]

A lot of the Amen hype here is because they want to justify 1) tanking 2) minimize the impact of Fred and Dillon Brooks 3) defensive athletes/dunkers are FUN!

You know if he played for us the same people would be spamming the board about everything he can't do.

You Fred fanboys do realize the man left for nothing right? Like we got nothing for him. Allowed him to chuck up shots for 2 years to boost his own value, undermine the rebuild/development of Scottie and delay the INEVITABLE, only for him to walk. It was a trash decision to not tank for Wemby, Miller, Amen, etc then and it still is now. EVEN if we drafted Scoot and he ended up being a bust on our roster (that’s not a given, we could have developed him better than the blazers), I would still pick that route over what we actually ended up doing.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, sorry.

There is no point but it was still a hilarious, nonsensical rant though. Apparently Fred’s “chucking” impressed Ime Udoka so much that he wanted Fred to lead this team of young players. Rockets have more wins now than they did in all of the 2022-23 season. Fred is a big part of that. Meanwhile we have 8 wins. All Scottie needed was “more shots” I was told. Time is proving just how wrong they were.

[PushDaRock]

You Fred fanboys do realize the man left for nothing right? Like we got nothing for him. Allowed him to chuck up shots for 2 years to boost his own value, undermine the rebuild/development of Scottie and delay the INEVITABLE, only for him to walk. It was a trash decision to not tank for Wemby, Miller, Amen, etc then and it still is now. EVEN if we drafted Scoot and he ended up being a bust on our roster (that’s not a given, we could have developed him better than the blazers), I would still pick that route over what we actually ended up doing.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, sorry.

There is no point but it was still a hilarious, nonsensical rant though. Apparently Fred’s “chucking” impressed Ime Udoka so much that he wanted Fred to lead this team of young players. Rockets have more wins now than they did in all of the 2022-23 season. Fred is a big part of that. Meanwhile we have 8 wins. All Scottie needed was “more shots” I was told. Time is proving just how wrong they were.

and Siakam is still holding Scottie back too

[Los_29]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, sorry.

There is no point but it was still a hilarious, nonsensical rant though. Apparently Fred’s “chucking” impressed Ime Udoka so much that he wanted Fred to lead this team of young players. Rockets have more wins now than they did in all of the 2022-23 season. Fred is a big part of that. Meanwhile we have 8 wins. All Scottie needed was “more shots” I was told. Time is proving just how wrong they were.

and Siakam is still holding Scottie back too

And Nurse.

But they are right. I think all we need is a prime Ray Allen and Klay Thompson, and a stretch C like Brook Lopez or Myles Turner. We can keep IQ at point guard. And trust me guys, Scottie can be like Jokic with this roster. If this lineup doesn’t work then it’s everyone else’s fault and we will need to just build a better team around Scottie.