[Charania] Bucks trade Khris Middleton, AJ Johnson and a pick swap to Wiz for Kyle Kuzma, Patrick Baldwin Jr. and SRPs

[Scase]

Except RJ actually was utter trash in New York. If that's the version we were getting here, the criticism would be the same but he's improved since then.

So we ignore the negative parts of one guys career, and not the same for the other guy?

Lets look at RJs year this season vs the last 2 for Kuzma while being in a much worse situation with the Wiz

21.6/6.6/5.7 54.9% TS%
22.2/6.6/4.2 54.7% TS%
21.2/7.2/3.7 54.4% TS%

So if RJ was trash in NYC, and this is him being good, why are his stats virtually identical to a "trash" player in Kuzma? Kuzma has shown in the past he can play decent defence, RJ has showed that in what, the last 5-10 games? Kuzma was putting up comparable stats in his Sophomore year as RJ is putting up now as "Good RJ", you don't see how that is laden with hypocrisy?

This isn't an "RJ bad, Kuzma good". This is just pointing out the insane bias that this board has towards its own players and overall massive hypocrisy.

What part of Kuz's career are we ignoring? He's never broken 55 TS% in any season ever. He's never shown to be efficient in any situation before.

Why are you taking the last 2 seasons for Kuzma but not using RJ's bigger sample size with the Raptors by including last season?

RJ as a Raptor: 21.7 ppg 6.5 rpg 5.0 apg on 50.4%/36.4%/64.3% shooting splits for 57.6 TS%

RJ as a Knick: 18.1 ppg 5.3 rpg 2.8 apg on 42.2%/34.2%/72% shooting splits for 51.8 TS%

I would say that's pretty obvious improvement.

Kuz has never broken 55% TS% in a season? Cool, neither has RJ, he's done it for 32 games.

You're approaching this in a "Must defend RJ at all costs" mentality. I am simply saying that RJ and Kuz are not players with tons of space between them. This isn't a who is better, but rather that they are so similar it's absurd to call Kuz trash and ignore the glaring similarities between the output of the 2 players.


You've got your mind made up, that's fine, no point continuing on here.

[Scase]

He might have to soon...cuz this trade...yuck.

I don't see how it's a bad trade, they get a guy who can actually be relied on to play, moved a 23rd pick that has seen a total of 44 minutes in the entire season, and Kuzmas contract is actually pretty good structure-wise. And they moved off a guy who has a contract that gets more expensive and has a PO on it, for a guy who has been increasingly injured every year and has already missed over half his eligible games this year.

Like it's not some knock it out of the park homerun, but I don't see how it's bad. Middleton as a player is absolutely better than Kuz, no two ways about it. But he played 33 games 2 years ago, 55 games last year, and only 23 of 48 games so far this year, they can't rely on him.

They used resources to get off Middleton. For...Kuzma?
They're already limited in what they can trade, and this was their target? It's going to shave off another couple years of Giannis' prime and expedite him leaving.

What other options did they have realistically? Butler isn't happening, KD isn't, Beal isn't, BI is too expensive and NOP isn't taking back Khris.

They dropped below the 2nd apron, got a guy who will actually be able to play, and gave up a 23rd overall player. Kuz has a good contract, again, I don't see how this is a "bad" trade. If you wanna say it's a "meh" trade, sure, but nothing about it is inherently bad. Middleton was a bad contract, so yeah they have to throw in a sweetener for it. Are we here claiming that AJ Johnson is giving away the farm or something?

[ontnut]

I don't see how it's a bad trade, they get a guy who can actually be relied on to play, moved a 23rd pick that has seen a total of 44 minutes in the entire season, and Kuzmas contract is actually pretty good structure-wise. And they moved off a guy who has a contract that gets more expensive and has a PO on it, for a guy who has been increasingly injured every year and has already missed over half his eligible games this year.

Like it's not some knock it out of the park homerun, but I don't see how it's bad. Middleton as a player is absolutely better than Kuz, no two ways about it. But he played 33 games 2 years ago, 55 games last year, and only 23 of 48 games so far this year, they can't rely on him.

They used resources to get off Middleton. For...Kuzma?
They're already limited in what they can trade, and this was their target? It's going to shave off another couple years of Giannis' prime and expedite him leaving.

What other options did they have realistically? Butler isn't happening, KD isn't, Beal isn't, BI is too expensive and NOP isn't taking back Khris.

They dropped below the 2nd apron, got a guy who will actually be able to play, and gave up a 23rd overall player. Kuz has a good contract, again, I don't see how this is a "bad" trade. If you wanna say it's a "meh" trade, sure, but nothing about it is inherently bad. Middleton was a bad contract, so yeah they have to throw in a sweetener for it. Are we here claiming that AJ Johnson is giving away the farm or something?

Feels like a trade for the sake of making a trade. If it was about the 2nd apron, I guess that makes some sense. Kuzma doesn't help them on the court - and Middleton, for all his faults and injuries, actually played a pretty big role in their playoff runs.

And then there's the looming fear that Middleton just gets bought out by the Wiz and goes and signs with a contender for the minimum, possibly interfering with a MIL playoff run. I dno who has the space to get him now, but...it could be significant. The Bucks did it once with Jrue, and gifted the Celtics a chip. This might be round 2.

[Scase]

They used resources to get off Middleton. For...Kuzma?
They're already limited in what they can trade, and this was their target? It's going to shave off another couple years of Giannis' prime and expedite him leaving.

What other options did they have realistically? Butler isn't happening, KD isn't, Beal isn't, BI is too expensive and NOP isn't taking back Khris.

They dropped below the 2nd apron, got a guy who will actually be able to play, and gave up a 23rd overall player. Kuz has a good contract, again, I don't see how this is a "bad" trade. If you wanna say it's a "meh" trade, sure, but nothing about it is inherently bad. Middleton was a bad contract, so yeah they have to throw in a sweetener for it. Are we here claiming that AJ Johnson is giving away the farm or something?

Feels like a trade for the sake of making a trade. If it was about the 2nd apron, I guess that makes some sense. Kuzma doesn't help them on the court - and Middleton, for all his faults and injuries, actually played a pretty big role in their playoff runs.

And then there's the looming fear that Middleton just gets bought out by the Wiz and goes and signs with a contender for the minimum, possibly interfering with a MIL playoff run. I dno who has the space to get him now, but...it could be significant. The Bucks did it once with Jrue, and gifted the Celtics a chip. This might be round 2.

Honestly, it's probably more about the apron than anything, but at least Kuz is playable and could be solid for them off the bench. With Middleton, he's missed a TON of games the last 3ish seasons, so I wouldn't be too concerned about him being a big issue in the open market.

Even if he does go to a team like the C's they wouldn't be relying on him the way the Bucks had to, so yeah likely does better there, but MIL needs him to be a legit, reliable starter. He isn't that anymore.

[PushDaRock]

So we ignore the negative parts of one guys career, and not the same for the other guy?

Lets look at RJs year this season vs the last 2 for Kuzma while being in a much worse situation with the Wiz

21.6/6.6/5.7 54.9% TS%
22.2/6.6/4.2 54.7% TS%
21.2/7.2/3.7 54.4% TS%

So if RJ was trash in NYC, and this is him being good, why are his stats virtually identical to a "trash" player in Kuzma? Kuzma has shown in the past he can play decent defence, RJ has showed that in what, the last 5-10 games? Kuzma was putting up comparable stats in his Sophomore year as RJ is putting up now as "Good RJ", you don't see how that is laden with hypocrisy?

This isn't an "RJ bad, Kuzma good". This is just pointing out the insane bias that this board has towards its own players and overall massive hypocrisy.

What part of Kuz's career are we ignoring? He's never broken 55 TS% in any season ever. He's never shown to be efficient in any situation before.

Why are you taking the last 2 seasons for Kuzma but not using RJ's bigger sample size with the Raptors by including last season?

RJ as a Raptor: 21.7 ppg 6.5 rpg 5.0 apg on 50.4%/36.4%/64.3% shooting splits for 57.6 TS%

RJ as a Knick: 18.1 ppg 5.3 rpg 2.8 apg on 42.2%/34.2%/72% shooting splits for 51.8 TS%

I would say that's pretty obvious improvement.

Kuz has never broken 55% TS% in a season? Cool, neither has RJ, he's done it for 32 games.

You're approaching this in a "Must defend RJ at all costs" mentality. I am simply saying that RJ and Kuz are not players with tons of space between them. This isn't a who is better, but rather that they are so similar it's absurd to call Kuz trash and ignore the glaring similarities between the output of the 2 players.


You've got your mind made up, that's fine, no point continuing on here.[/quote]

RJ has 71 games as a Raptor and he's at 57.6 TS%.

Nobody is defending RJ, go back to my original post. They do have similar career numbers but that's because like I said he was utter trash in New York and has improved since then. You're the one spinning up a narrative trying to defend Kuzma, why else would you use Kuzma's last 2 seasons but for RJ, only use his numbers this season?

[Scase]

What part of Kuz's career are we ignoring? He's never broken 55 TS% in any season ever. He's never shown to be efficient in any situation before.

Why are you taking the last 2 seasons for Kuzma but not using RJ's bigger sample size with the Raptors by including last season?

RJ as a Raptor: 21.7 ppg 6.5 rpg 5.0 apg on 50.4%/36.4%/64.3% shooting splits for 57.6 TS%

RJ as a Knick: 18.1 ppg 5.3 rpg 2.8 apg on 42.2%/34.2%/72% shooting splits for 51.8 TS%

I would say that's pretty obvious improvement.

Kuz has never broken 55% TS% in a season? Cool, neither has RJ, he's done it for 32 games.

You're approaching this in a "Must defend RJ at all costs" mentality. I am simply saying that RJ and Kuz are not players with tons of space between them. This isn't a who is better, but rather that they are so similar it's absurd to call Kuz trash and ignore the glaring similarities between the output of the 2 players.


You've got your mind made up, that's fine, no point continuing on here.

RJ has 71 games as a Raptor and he's at 57.6 TS%.

Nobody is defending RJ, go back to my original post. They do have similar career numbers but that's because like I said he was utter trash in New York and has improved since then. You're the one spinning up a narrative trying to defend Kuzma, why else would you use Kuzma's last 2 seasons but for RJ, only use his numbers this season?

You need to understand what an outlier is. Kuz had 2 seasons, 134 games of essentially identical stats back to back. And if you look at the rest of his career, it all scales with playing time, USG, and FGA.

With RJ you have a career prior to the Raps as you put it, 51% TS%, then a 32 game sample of 61% TS%, then another 41 game sample of 55% TS%, and you wonder why I'm not using those as some indication that there is a gulf between them?

What's to say his next 40 games aren't 61% again, or 51%? Literally nothing, so for all intents and purposes, and using actual sample size, they are virtually identical players, good or bad. Kuz isn't a very good player, he's alright. RJ also isn't a very good player, he's alright. You're hellbent on trying to prove how RJ is way better than he used to be based on small sample sizes that have had wild variance between them, I'm just saying they are both the same level of player and calling one trash, while trying to pretend the other is good, is blatant homerism and hypocrisy.

If you can't see/understand that, then there is nothing more to say and this is my last post on the subject with you.

[PushDaRock]

Kuz has never broken 55% TS% in a season? Cool, neither has RJ, he's done it for 32 games.

You're approaching this in a "Must defend RJ at all costs" mentality. I am simply saying that RJ and Kuz are not players with tons of space between them. This isn't a who is better, but rather that they are so similar it's absurd to call Kuz trash and ignore the glaring similarities between the output of the 2 players.


You've got your mind made up, that's fine, no point continuing on here.

RJ has 71 games as a Raptor and he's at 57.6 TS%.

Nobody is defending RJ, go back to my original post. They do have similar career numbers but that's because like I said he was utter trash in New York and has improved since then. You're the one spinning up a narrative trying to defend Kuzma, why else would you use Kuzma's last 2 seasons but for RJ, only use his numbers this season?

You need to understand what an outlier is. Kuz had 2 seasons, 134 games of essentially identical stats back to back. And if you look at the rest of his career, it all scales with playing time, USG, and FGA.

With RJ you have a career prior to the Raps as you put it, 51% TS%, then a 32 game sample of 61% TS%, then another 41 game sample of 55% TS%, and you wonder why I'm not using those as some indication that there is a gulf between them?

What's to say his next 40 games aren't 61% again, or 51%? Literally nothing, so for all intents and purposes, and using actual sample size, they are virtually identical players, good or bad. Kuz isn't a very good player, he's alright. RJ also isn't a very good player, he's alright. You're hellbent on trying to prove how RJ is way better than he used to be based on small sample sizes that have had wild variance between them, I'm just saying they are both the same level of player and calling one trash, while trying to pretend the other is good, is blatant homerism and hypocrisy.

If you can't see/understand that, then there is nothing more to say and this is my last post on the subject with you.

Yes, I wonder why you are using the smaller sample size with the Raptors instead of the larger one. It only makes sense to do that if you're trying to spin the numbers in your favor to fit a certain narrative.

RJ's TS% this season when playing with Scottie is at 57.1% and 51.5% without. It is certainly looking likely that he can be a decently efficient player for us when not having to carry too big of an offensive load by himself.

RJ's play could very well revert back to his New York days. If that happens, we can go back to calling him utter trash again just like Kuzma.