Shams: The Clippers, Jazz and Heat have agreed to a trade Norman Powell, John Collins and Kevin Love

[ConSarnit]

When was the last time they got a big free agent?

Bosh, Lebron Butler...

Exactly. It doesn’t happen often and Butler would have never been considered a top 5 player at any time in his career. Miami has struck out a lot in free agency. Butler also chose to go to Miami because of the team’s culture and the fact it had good pieces already in place. Obviously the weather didn’t hurt either.

When have they had cap space and struck out? Dame wanted to go there but POR sent him to MIL.

MIA is always a threat to get star players in a way that we are not. That always puts them a level above us in terms of outlook regardless of whether they have that star or not. It’s the same for the Lakers and why having an unprotected future 1st from premier teams is worth less than it is from teams like us.

[bballsparkin]

Exactly. It doesn’t happen often and Butler would have never been considered a top 5 player at any time in his career. Miami has struck out a lot in free agency. Butler also chose to go to Miami because of the team’s culture and the fact it had good pieces already in place. Obviously the weather didn’t hurt either.

Playoff Jimmy had some top 5ish moments.

[bballsparkin]

My guess is Love goes to LA probably to play with Lebron one more time.

Why not Denver on the cheap?

[PushDaRock]

Yeah, I see that it's just a positional play for the Clippers. The end result is they won't be re-signing anyone more than on a 1 year regardless. I just thought they'd be looking for more future value, but it's probably not there, or attached to uselessness.

Funny thing is my recommended offseason moves for the Thunder to stay out of the tax next year would have worked with Norm, assuming the Bucks are trying to do something for Giannis.

- Norm to Thunder consolidation trade/cap move
- Joe/Wiggins to Bucks depth/youth move
- Kuzma to Clips. 2 year garbage contract at position fitting the plan. Some minor picks for the trouble.

That would have made absolutely no sense for the Clippers. Get the worst player in the deal with more term for some SRP's? Why wouldn't they have just traded for Joe and Wiggins themselves instead? lol

They'd get at least a protected 1st out of it from the Bucks.

The Wiggins contract goes past 2026, and both guys are guards. They just traded Norm for a forward to make room for Beal.

Just going by what the Clippers were looking for now and in the future, and getting them cheap assets for Norm.

"Minor Picks" isn't really the same as a protected FRP which is still a significant asset.

The Clippers are still trying to win right now. They didn't just dump Norm for nothing, Collins had a really good year last season and they likely wanted to balance some of their scoring to the front court rather than be so backcourt heavy. Getting back waste like Kuzma who's a negative on the court in every way does not help them achieve that.

[Pointgod]

The CBA hurts the big teams the most. Huge penalties for going past the cap thresholds so you can't just throw money at problems anymore. Teams like MIA, LAL could just create cap space and wait for the stars to show up, but that really isn't the case anymore either. Free agency mostly just consists of MLE level guys. The teams that excel at drafting and developing and the ones that make smart trades and signings while managing within the cap limits will be successful.

The CBA is hurting both big and small markets alike. The owners went too far trying to stop Jim Balmer and ended up screwing themselves. Teams that draft smart and make good decisions are punished by ending up having to make purely financial moves even if they aren’t at the level of a contender. Celtics and Indiana are too examples of how stupid the CBA is plus the middle class players get screwed as well. Imo the pendulum swung too far the other way with the CBA because while the financial penalties for being over the aprons make sense, the other penalties are idiotic and lead to less competition

[OakleyDokely]

The CBA hurts the big teams the most. Huge penalties for going past the cap thresholds so you can't just throw money at problems anymore. Teams like MIA, LAL could just create cap space and wait for the stars to show up, but that really isn't the case anymore either. Free agency mostly just consists of MLE level guys. The teams that excel at drafting and developing and the ones that make smart trades and signings while managing within the cap limits will be successful.

The CBA is hurting both big and small markets alike. The owners went too far trying to stop Jim Balmer and ended up screwing themselves. Teams that draft smart and make good decisions are punished by ending up having to make purely financial moves even if they aren’t at the level of a contender. Celtics and Indiana are too examples of how stupid the CBA is plus the middle class players get screwed as well. Imo the pendulum swung too far the other way with the CBA because while the financial penalties for being over the aprons make sense, the other penalties are idiotic and lead to less competition

I guess it depends on how you look at it. Super teams are basically dead because it will be almost impossible to have 3 max level players and proper depth without going deep into the tax. But homegrown super teams get punished as well -- it's going to be hard for a team like OKC to keep SGA/JWill/Chet together long term. They will likely need to pick between Jwill and Chet. Parity across the league is likely to continue.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The CBA hurts the big teams the most. Huge penalties for going past the cap thresholds so you can't just throw money at problems anymore. Teams like MIA, LAL could just create cap space and wait for the stars to show up, but that really isn't the case anymore either. Free agency mostly just consists of MLE level guys. The teams that excel at drafting and developing and the ones that make smart trades and signings while managing within the cap limits will be successful.

The CBA is hurting both big and small markets alike. The owners went too far trying to stop Jim Balmer and ended up screwing themselves. Teams that draft smart and make good decisions are punished by ending up having to make purely financial moves even if they aren’t at the level of a contender. Celtics and Indiana are too examples of how stupid the CBA is plus the middle class players get screwed as well. Imo the pendulum swung too far the other way with the CBA because while the financial penalties for being over the aprons make sense, the other penalties are idiotic and lead to less competition

Boston trading Holiday and Porzingis past prime on big money is also a basketball move. Boston was foolish not to trade Porzingis at peak value after he barely contributed to their title, and they were foolish to hand Jrue that massive extension. They have now made two teams more competitive, theoretically, because the tax compelled them to make those decisions. There's just no way Boston was winning another title with those two on the books, so they got bailed out with Tatum's injury as cover. Similar to Turner in Indiana.

[brownbobcat]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. Super teams are basically dead because it will be almost impossible to have 3 max level players and proper depth without going deep into the tax. But homegrown super teams get punished as well -- it's going to be hard for a team like OKC to keep SGA/JWill/Chet together long term. They will likely need to pick between Jwill and Chet. Parity across the league is likely to continue.

Old/new CBA, doesn't matter - OKC is never going to be a team that consistently pays luxury tax. They don't have the revenue to support it, doesn't matter how good they are.

[ArthurVandelay]

It’s funny how media views Norm as a low risk trade and a guy who brings a level of scoring Miami desperately needs (I agree with this assessment btw), but the Raptors bringing in BI was the worst thing, even though we also needed his skill set offensively pretty badly and we gave up very little to get him as well. Oh and BI is a MUCH better player than Norm. Oh and we didn’t lose BI to free agency because we gave him a contract right away and he didn’t hurt our tank bc he didn’t play. Injury is the only issue and even 50 games of BI is probably better than a whole season of Norm (and Norm most likely would not play the whole season).

And this is all because we are viewed as a tanking/rebuilding team and Miami isn’t. Which is funny because Miami lost their best player in Jimmy just like we did in Pascal and if we did not actively sit players to tank and we were much more healthy throughout the season we would have been in the play-in right alongside Miami lol. Miami is the type of team that most people would consider “treadmill” and would say they should tank instead of being buyers. I guess those things are only said about the Raptors lol

The Miami Heat are a premier free agent or trade destination team. They are one of the very few teams who do not need to tear it all down to rebuild because stars will actively seek out playing there. The Heat can afford to “treadmill” because eventually some star will show up. Stars are not showing up for us.

Problem for MIA is, free agency is dead now. The big names sign extensions with their existing teams because they can typically pay the most and they just force a trade if they don't like their situation. So MIA's going to need the asset base to make a big deal. Players will still want to play for them, but they're going to have to trade for them like everyone else, which means a lot more competition.

I agree with you fwiw

Next couple of years going to put the theory to the test when teams have cap space again.

[Dr Positivity]

Beal will start his 2nd act on Clippers as 6MOY contending bench offense, low minutes to keep from getting injured.

[ontnut]

My guess is Love goes to LA probably to play with Lebron one more time.

Why not Denver on the cheap?

If he wants to play, LA probably has more minutes for him. They could use a backup PF/C as everyone knows.
DEN signed JV so a lot of backup C minutes are gone, and DEN has a pretty strong roster of wings already who can play the PF spot either off Jokic or JV at C. I don't love the fit of Love beside JV for defensive reasons. With Jokic, a strech big in theory is not a bad idea, but I don't think you're playing Love with starters on a top 3 contender.

[bballsparkin]

If he wants to play, LA probably has more minutes for him. They could use a backup PF/C as everyone knows.
DEN signed JV so a lot of backup C minutes are gone, and DEN has a pretty strong roster of wings already who can play the PF spot either off Jokic or JV at C. I don't love the fit of Love beside JV for defensive reasons. With Jokic, a strech big in theory is not a bad idea, but I don't think you're playing Love with starters on a top 3 contender.

Yeah I was thinking as a stretch big next to Jokic. I suppose Love has already won a ring so he doesn't need to ring chase. Lakers make sense if it's play time he's after. JV and Love on defence together would be comical.

[JB7]

The CBA hurts the big teams the most. Huge penalties for going past the cap thresholds so you can't just throw money at problems anymore. Teams like MIA, LAL could just create cap space and wait for the stars to show up, but that really isn't the case anymore either. Free agency mostly just consists of MLE level guys. The teams that excel at drafting and developing and the ones that make smart trades and signings while managing within the cap limits will be successful.

The CBA is hurting both big and small markets alike. The owners went too far trying to stop Jim Balmer and ended up screwing themselves. Teams that draft smart and make good decisions are punished by ending up having to make purely financial moves even if they aren’t at the level of a contender. Celtics and Indiana are too examples of how stupid the CBA is plus the middle class players get screwed as well. Imo the pendulum swung too far the other way with the CBA because while the financial penalties for being over the aprons make sense, the other penalties are idiotic and lead to less competition

I think the owners love this new setup. They have an easy excuse not to spend excessively. And everyone is in the same boat, so all will spend up to the tax limit now. Forces small market owners to spend a bit more, and caps the big market teams. And any teams willing to go over, are just paying those that are not over, so everyone is happy.