With the 57th pick, the Raptors select Ulrich Chomche

[Tacoma]

Bruno wasnt a mistake. He was a gamble with a late 1st round pick that didnt work out. He has had a 7'7 wingspan, was a good athlete and could shoot so go ahead and swing for the fences. If Brunom put the work in the pick wouldve been great but the NBA lifestyle was too much for him.

How is he not a mistake? 20th pick is not a late pick and you still have a decent chance to draft a contributor. Clint Capela, for example, was right there and Raptors were rumored to have interest. Heck, our own Ja'Kobe Walter was a 19th pick. Caboclo gave us absolutely nothing, dude played total of 105 NBA games and averaged around 4ppg for ****'s sake. That's a bust of a pick. And he was not a good athlete. I mean, at the beginning, there was perception that he must be for Ujiri to draft someone so obviously raw. So the thought was it must be a "home run" pick for someone with huge upside (i.e. super athletic). But when he actually played, he just had long arms but was slow and surprisingly unathletic otherwise (had no real lift). Fans couldn't have known that but FO should have and stayed away with the first round pick. His problem wasn't NBA lifestyle, it was lack of talent or athleticism and no basketball IQ to cover for them due to lack of experience.

On the other hand, 57th pick is the perfect spot to "gamble" for someone like that or Chomche. You can take time with the dude with no pressure and you suffer little to no loss even if he doesn't pan out because of how low the pick used on him was.

It's easy to draft well when you can look at a draft a decade later and make your picks then isn't it.

And 20 is a late pick. Go look up the percentage of guys drafted at 20 that end up having successful careers in the league.

OG was a 23rd pick and Siakam was the 27th pick, both supporting the notion (to which I agreed) that Masai was good at the draft. As you pointed out, drafting in the 20's has more bad outcomes than good, so you'd expect some mistakes hence no need to try and defend it.

In the context that Masai has been repeatedly praised for drafting well, it's fair to point out the duds as mistakes or judgement errors, especially with who was available at #20: Bogdanovic, Capela, J. Harris, K. Anderson, J. Grant, Dinwiddle and future MVP Jokic, just to name a few.

Interesting that we also had the #37 and Grant, Dinwiddle and Jokic were available but we picked DeAndre Daniels instead who never played a game with us. The 2014 draft outcome wasn't Masai's best. Even Dwight Powell on Team Canada picked at #45 had a better NBA career than Bruno.

[aminiaturebuddha]

So...uh...about Chomche...

Expectations for him in the G-League this year?

[dandaman]

So...uh...about Chomche...

Expectations for him in the G-League this year?

29 mpg, 15.4 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 2.1 apg, 2.7 bpg, 1.2 spg...55% fgp

[raptorforlife88]

So...uh...about Chomche...

Expectations for him in the G-League this year?

12.8/12.5/1.8 with 3 blocks

[manjusaka]

So...uh...about Chomche...

Expectations for him in the G-League this year?

70% FT

[HangTime]

So...uh...about Chomche...

Expectations for him in the G-League this year?

14pts, 11reb, 3ast, 1 stl, 2 blk, 30 mins

and a whole lot "ghost stats." Things that affect the game that people see in the moment, but doesn't go anywhere box (or advanced box) scores.

Things that people see/hear - Screen assists, Hockey assists.
Things that people don't mention - Steal/Block assists.

That's something i want to try tracking this year.

[Quattro]

How is he not a mistake? 20th pick is not a late pick and you still have a decent chance to draft a contributor. Clint Capela, for example, was right there and Raptors were rumored to have interest. Heck, our own Ja'Kobe Walter was a 19th pick. Caboclo gave us absolutely nothing, dude played total of 105 NBA games and averaged around 4ppg for ****'s sake. That's a bust of a pick. And he was not a good athlete. I mean, at the beginning, there was perception that he must be for Ujiri to draft someone so obviously raw. So the thought was it must be a "home run" pick for someone with huge upside (i.e. super athletic). But when he actually played, he just had long arms but was slow and surprisingly unathletic otherwise (had no real lift). Fans couldn't have known that but FO should have and stayed away with the first round pick. His problem wasn't NBA lifestyle, it was lack of talent or athleticism and no basketball IQ to cover for them due to lack of experience.

On the other hand, 57th pick is the perfect spot to "gamble" for someone like that or Chomche. You can take time with the dude with no pressure and you suffer little to no loss even if he doesn't pan out because of how low the pick used on him was.

It's easy to draft well when you can look at a draft a decade later and make your picks then isn't it.

And 20 is a late pick. Go look up the percentage of guys drafted at 20 that end up having successful careers in the league.

OG was a 23rd pick and Siakam was the 27th pick, both supporting the notion (to which I agreed) that Masai was good at the draft. As you pointed out, drafting in the 20's has more bad outcomes than good, so you'd expect some mistakes hence no need to try and defend it.

In the context that Masai has been repeatedly praised for drafting well, it's fair to point out the duds as mistakes or judgement errors, especially with who was available at #20: Bogdanovic, Capela, J. Harris, K. Anderson, J. Grant, Dinwiddle and future MVP Jokic, just to name a few.

Interesting that we also had the #37 and Grant, Dinwiddle and Jokic were available but we picked DeAndre Daniels instead who never played a game with us. The 2014 draft outcome wasn't Masai's best. Even Dwight Powell on Team Canada picked at #45 had a better NBA career than Bruno.

I don't disagree that the pick was a dud....more the initial description that it was some sort of egregious error and the worst mistake he ever made.

[oldncreaky]

So...uh...about Chomche...

Expectations for him in the G-League this year?

14pts, 11reb, 3ast, 1 stl, 2 blk, 30 mins

and a whole lot "ghost stats." Things that affect the game that people see in the moment, but doesn't go anywhere box (or advanced box) scores.

Things that people see/hear - Screen assists, Hockey assists.
Things that people don't mention - Steal/Block assists.

That's something i want to try tracking this year.

The 2 things I'm most interested in that are hard to glean from box-score stats
1. Intimidation -- how many times opposing players don't attack the rim because he is lurking
2. Catches -- are his hands getting better?

[OhCanada]

I'd guess 13 pts, 9 rebs, 2.5 asts, 1 stl, 1.5 blks

[DreamTeam09]

I need a chomche mix

[kalel123]

It's easy to draft well when you can look at a draft a decade later and make your picks then isn't it.

And 20 is a late pick. Go look up the percentage of guys drafted at 20 that end up having successful careers in the league.

OG was a 23rd pick and Siakam was the 27th pick, both supporting the notion (to which I agreed) that Masai was good at the draft. As you pointed out, drafting in the 20's has more bad outcomes than good, so you'd expect some mistakes hence no need to try and defend it.

In the context that Masai has been repeatedly praised for drafting well, it's fair to point out the duds as mistakes or judgement errors, especially with who was available at #20: Bogdanovic, Capela, J. Harris, K. Anderson, J. Grant, Dinwiddle and future MVP Jokic, just to name a few.

Interesting that we also had the #37 and Grant, Dinwiddle and Jokic were available but we picked DeAndre Daniels instead who never played a game with us. The 2014 draft outcome wasn't Masai's best. Even Dwight Powell on Team Canada picked at #45 had a better NBA career than Bruno.

I don't disagree that the pick was a dud....more the initial description that it was some sort of egregious error and the worst mistake he ever made.

So.... he made many more worse errors? Besides the fact that there's clear distinction/difference between what I actually said and your claim, might wanna pick a lane here.

[Thaddy]

If he doubles rim contests and his block rate I'd be very impressed. I don't really care about his offense right now if his defense can be a major plus by 21 we can work on his offense later. He should focus on defense and ball handling / feel for the game.

[Quattro]

OG was a 23rd pick and Siakam was the 27th pick, both supporting the notion (to which I agreed) that Masai was good at the draft. As you pointed out, drafting in the 20's has more bad outcomes than good, so you'd expect some mistakes hence no need to try and defend it.

In the context that Masai has been repeatedly praised for drafting well, it's fair to point out the duds as mistakes or judgement errors, especially with who was available at #20: Bogdanovic, Capela, J. Harris, K. Anderson, J. Grant, Dinwiddle and future MVP Jokic, just to name a few.

Interesting that we also had the #37 and Grant, Dinwiddle and Jokic were available but we picked DeAndre Daniels instead who never played a game with us. The 2014 draft outcome wasn't Masai's best. Even Dwight Powell on Team Canada picked at #45 had a better NBA career than Bruno.

I don't disagree that the pick was a dud....more the initial description that it was some sort of egregious error and the worst mistake he ever made.

So.... he made many more worse errors? Besides the fact that there's clear distinction/difference between what I actually said and your claim, might wanna pick a lane here.

"Bruno was one of the worst mistakes he made in Toronto". That's what you said.

And yes he made worse errors while here than missing on the 20th pick.

[kalel123]

I don't disagree that the pick was a dud....more the initial description that it was some sort of egregious error and the worst mistake he ever made.

So.... he made many more worse errors? Besides the fact that there's clear distinction/difference between what I actually said and your claim, might wanna pick a lane here.

"Bruno was one of the worst mistakes he made in Toronto". That's what you said.

And yes he made worse errors while here than missing on the 20th pick.

Yes, that's what i said, which is again distinctly different from your previous claim.

And if you think he's made enough of worse errors that Bruno can't be called one of the worst, then actually put some substance to your posts than ignorant one liners and name them.