ImageImageImageImageImage

Dear Chuck:Please tell Jamario Moon to stop shooting Jumpers

Moderators: DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX, 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford

arcueid
Ballboy
Posts: 12
And1: 0
Joined: Apr 18, 2007

 

Post#21 » by arcueid » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:38 am

Moon doesn't drive because most of the time when he does, he loses the ball. He's still extremely raw at this point, never having been properly coached and trained even from the college level. He needs some confidence in his handles first before he'll become an effective slasher. He certainly has the athletic ability to do it though.
rdtx2005
RealGM
Posts: 12,212
And1: 17
Joined: Oct 04, 2005
Location: Canada

 

Post#22 » by rdtx2005 » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:42 am

Moon should not shoot 3's period... but i don't mind him taking jumpshots.
torsport
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,027
And1: 178
Joined: Aug 25, 2004
Location: Toronto

 

Post#23 » by torsport » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:51 am

PapeSowish wrote:I'd rather have Moon taking a 3 with my life on the line than Dixon or Martin.


Now that's just silly.
torsport
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,027
And1: 178
Joined: Aug 25, 2004
Location: Toronto

 

Post#24 » by torsport » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:53 am

orangutooth wrote:moon taking the open 17 footer - go ahead
moon taking a three - shot clock better be at 3 or under


I'd agree with that
torsport
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,027
And1: 178
Joined: Aug 25, 2004
Location: Toronto

 

Post#25 » by torsport » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:56 am

Look,

I think most people in the league know that Moon can dunk.

Defenders play him for the drive and dare him to shoot.

The best way to get defenders to give you space, when they're playing you to drive, is sink a couple of J's to force them to get up on you.

Moon has a move he loves, up fake and drive. Well if the defender doesn't bite on the up fake, you sink your J, maybe next time he will.

The problem is, Moon's J isn't consistent enough for him to get defenders to play him honest so they play the drive and dare him to shoot, sure he may sink a shot or two, but he isn't going to kill you from outside.
User avatar
asif9t9
Banned User
Posts: 3,758
And1: 0
Joined: Feb 05, 2006

 

Post#26 » by asif9t9 » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:46 pm

Moon is almost like a Jason Kapono. To be effective, he needs to be put in the right position. This takes coaching, and maybe by next year familiarity with his teammates.

Moon's spot is to get the ball on the move with a line to the basket. Leo was correct when he said Moon has those Dr J moves when he can take off from far away and use his hangtime and long arms to lay it in.
User avatar
40 Guzzle
Head Coach
Posts: 6,400
And1: 532
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Location: Toronto Distillery
     

 

Post#27 » by 40 Guzzle » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:32 pm

Moon has made himself redundant then, this team has plenty of jump shooters and is in desperate need of a slasher who can draw fouls and finish at the basket.

If the opportunity presents itself for us to acquire such a player, Moon will be bumped from the rotation and he will nly have himself to blame.
Olde English 800 cause that's my brand / Take it in a bottle, 40, quart, or a can
User avatar
chsh22
Analyst
Posts: 3,252
And1: 1
Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Location: The Watcher

 

Post#28 » by chsh22 » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:47 pm

The_Hater wrote:I'm not sure why everyone thinks Moon is a terrible shooter?

He's certainly no Kapono and he's a bit streaky, but overall he's been an OK outside shooter this season. And sometimes when the ball is swung around and the clock is running down, players on the court need to take open jumpshots. It happens several times a game.

I'm not actually sure there's a coach in the league who is going to tell any reasonably competent shooter not to take an open uncontested shot.
YogiStewart
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 25,926
And1: 6,447
Joined: Aug 08, 2007
Location: Its ALL about Location, Location, Location!

 

Post#29 » by YogiStewart » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:32 pm

Image
User avatar
sh00n
RealGM
Posts: 20,408
And1: 1,980
Joined: Jul 15, 2006
Contact:
       

 

Post#30 » by sh00n » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:05 pm

Obviously. Because he'll listen to Chuck and change how he plays depending on what Chuck tells him to do.
Support your local artist, kids: http://www.katsenhakeron.com
@katsenhaker0n on the bird app
User avatar
Jimmy The Greek
Junior
Posts: 276
And1: 1
Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Location: Toronto
         

 

Post#31 » by Jimmy The Greek » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:27 pm

Cyrus wrote:The reason why he doesn't drive to the basket, is that he doesn't have the handle to support good drives when there is a defender, to create space, and seperation.


Very well said.
User avatar
Schad
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 58,386
And1: 17,921
Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Location: The Goat Rodeo
     

 

Post#32 » by Schad » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:42 pm

The_Hater wrote:I'm not sure why everyone thinks Moon is a terrible shooter?

He's certainly no Kapono and he's a bit streaky, but overall he's been an OK outside shooter this season. And sometimes when the ball is swung around and the clock is running down, players on the court need to take open jumpshots. It happens several times a game.


That's definitely part of it...odd, but Moon is one of the few guys on the team that will actually go toward the ballhandler if the latter has picked up their dribble late in the clock. That results in quite a few late-clock Moon shots (har har) that bring down his percentages.
Image
**** your asterisk.
JN
RealGM
Posts: 19,383
And1: 10,207
Joined: Feb 02, 2007
   

 

Post#33 » by JN » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:52 pm

orangutooth wrote:moon taking the open 17 footer - go ahead
moon taking a three - shot clock better be at 3 or under


pretty much bang on, imo
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 41,276
And1: 14,298
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

 

Post#34 » by dagger » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:54 pm

I don't have a huge problem with Moon shooting mid-range. I think he's decent. His three point percentage is poor, but he doesn't take too many. My beef is that his defence is somewhat irregular. He is a very good rebounder shot blocker, and he often anticipates a pass to get a steal, but his man defence is often poor. He bites on every conceivable fake and he doesn't get many charges because all too often he isn't staying in front of his man. Last night, when Mitchell pulled Bargnani early in the third, he also took out Moon. And with good reason.
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
User avatar
dacrusha
RealGM
Posts: 12,696
And1: 5,418
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Location: Waiting for Jesse Ventura to show up...
       

 

Post#35 » by dacrusha » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:56 pm

He's shooting .455 with defenders backing off him and daring him to take jumpshots all game long.

With the defensive presence he already brings, this shooting percentage is entirely acceptable and not worthy of a new thread.
"If you can’t make a profit, you should sell your team" - Michael Jordan
User avatar
dacrusha
RealGM
Posts: 12,696
And1: 5,418
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Location: Waiting for Jesse Ventura to show up...
       

 

Post#36 » by dacrusha » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:02 pm

dagger wrote:I don't have a huge problem with Moon shooting mid-range. I think he's decent. His three point percentage is poor, but he doesn't take too many. My beef is that his defence is somewhat irregular. He is a very good rebounder shot blocker, and he often anticipates a pass to get a steal, but his man defence is often poor. He bites on every conceivable fake and he doesn't get many charges because all too often he isn't staying in front of his man. Last night, when Mitchell pulled Bargnani early in the third, he also took out Moon. And with good reason.


For Moon, I think it's fair to give him a break in this regard as most games he has the assignment of covering some of the best scorers in the league... like a baseball player, he needs to garner a lot more game experience to learn 'the book' on opposition tendancies in order to stop biting on their various fakes and tactics.
"If you can’t make a profit, you should sell your team" - Michael Jordan
User avatar
Hypz
Head Coach
Posts: 6,448
And1: 8
Joined: Apr 12, 2007
Location: Valhalla

 

Post#37 » by Hypz » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:58 pm

Signed.
The_Hater
GHOAT (Greatest Hater Of All Time)
Posts: 85,319
And1: 40,062
Joined: May 23, 2001
     

 

Post#38 » by The_Hater » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:17 pm

dacrusha wrote:For Moon, I think it's fair to give him a break in this regard as most games he has the assignment of covering some of the best scorers in the league... like a baseball player, he needs to garner a lot more game experience to learn 'the book' on opposition tendancies in order to stop biting on their various fakes and tactics.


Moon does bite on fakes at times to say that he 'bites on every conceivable fake' is quite the hyperbole.

Two things need to be added. 1) He's still rookie who has never played at this level so this is a small, mental issue that will likely improve with time 2) his shotblocking is a strength that he shouldn't be discouraged from using.

I'm not even sure what the other posters complaint is here? Right now Moon, while not perfect, is probably the most valuable defender on the team right now. He disrupts the passing lanes and deflects a ton of balls, plays terrific help D, crashes the defensive boards and can still keep most players on front of him including PG's. Plus he can switch with just about anyone without the worry of getting into a mismatch.

Is he a currently lockdown defender on the league's elite players? No. And the last time an NBA rookie was?
User avatar
Schad
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 58,386
And1: 17,921
Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Location: The Goat Rodeo
     

 

Post#39 » by Schad » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:39 pm

Moon will bite on shot fakes, but he's remarkably adept for a rookie at avoiding fouls. Fouls per blocked shots has been suggested by some statheads as a good measure of a player's timing, co-ordination and savvy as a shotblocker, and Moon (at 1.2 PF/block) leads the team by a good margin.

Heck, among players averaging over 1 bpg, only Marcus Camby and Ben Wallace do a better job...and they have five DPOYs between them.
Image
**** your asterisk.

Return to Toronto Raptors