Andrea Bargnani Thread(ESPN: 'might be Matt Bonner' pg 86)

[Kordic27]

Just plain ol' silly, Matt Bonner is basically Humphries with a 3 point shot.

LOL - I think that Humphries with a 3 point shot is a better version of Bargnani.

Incidentally, I don't think that the writer was suggesting that a Bargnani for Bonner trade would be fair, just that Bargnani and Bonner are similar RIGHT NOW.

And other posters (sometimes referred to as 'Bargnani haters') are not suggesting that Bonner will always be better than Bargs, just that the Raptors would be better off with Bonner over Bargnani THIS YEAR. As in, if there was one year of basketball to play, and this was the year, the Raptors would be better off with Bonner over Bargnani.

Geez, Bargs supporters are a sensitive bunch no? We all hope that Bargs will turn into a great centre, but can we at least admit that he's not a great centre right now?

[dagger]

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LOL - I think that Humphries with a 3 point shot is a better version of Bargnani.

Incidentally, I don't think that the writer was suggesting that a Bargnani for Bonner trade would be fair, just that Bargnani and Bonner are similar RIGHT NOW.

And other posters (sometimes referred to as 'Bargnani haters') are not suggesting that Bonner will always be better than Bargs, just that the Raptors would be better off with Bonner over Bargnani THIS YEAR. As in, if there was one year of basketball to play, and this was the year, the Raptors would be better off with Bonner over Bargnani.

Geez, Bargs supporters are a sensitive bunch no? We all hope that Bargs will turn into a great centre, but can we at least admit that he's not a great centre right now?

I don't agree that Bonner and Bargnani are all that similar. Bonner was a better rebounder, but an absolute horror putting the ball on the floor, worse than Humphries. His man defence, lest anyone forget, was poor. Yes, he hustled, but Sam played him in the middle and he was abused regularly by bigger players, whereas Bargnani can hold his own one on one against most good big men. Bonner was so bad in the middle that we were regularly referring to Sam's "Man love" for him. Nobody could figure out why Sam played him the way he did.

And while Bonner can string a few three pointers together, he never had the impact on a game like Bargnani does when his shot is falling. on Wednesday, Kevin Garnett had to come out to cover Bargnani on the perimetre, which took their best big man far away from the basket. You never had to put a KG on Bonner on the perimetre. Pretty much anyone closing out hard could shut down Bonner, and Bonner couldn't sidestep a good close-out and hit a long two like Bargnani can.

I'm not knocking Bonner - he is what he is. And I'm not saying Bargnani has been playing well overall. But if Bargnani does nothing more than hit his shots with more consistently, he's a better and far more impactful presence for us, and anything he improves at is a bonus.

[Grizzled]

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Of course I do, and I wouldn't trade Bargnani for Bonner either. But this thread went like this:

ESPN guy: Bargnani is playing like Bonner.

Raptor board lynch mob: NO HE'S NOT YOU'RE THE WORST WRITER OF ALL TIME AND YOU SMELL STUPID

NBA.com: Bonner's numbers this season are actually slightly better than Bargnani's

Get mad and argue about silly trades nobody's suggesting all you like, but the writer is making a point that Bargnani's playing like Bonner and he's right, despite how uncomfortable it makes some people here.

It may be true that Bonner

[ldnk]

See, the whole thing about that, is that Bargnani isn't playing like Bonner. He's putting up somewhat comparable statistics to Bonner. Bargnani is playing like Bargnani of last year except he is attempt to go into the paint more and post-up and he is (while at an extremely slow pace) beginning to at least attempt to box out and fight for rebounds. The big difference is that up until the last game Bargnani couldn't hit a shot to save his life. That's the only difference in his game from last year to this year. He completely lost his confidence and it spilled into all aspects of his game.

If Bargnani was playing with confidence on the court and still sucking like he has in the past 40 games, I would agree that we have a valid argument for comparison, but you are taking a player at the lowest point of his career and using that as the basis for comparison. Bargnani came over with the reputation of being a shooter in Italy. He maintained that reputation in his rookie campaign. His shot completely left him and suddenly the other 20 years of his life where he was building up to be even considered a top pick in the draft were the lie, and that 40 game stretch is suddenly the type of player he is.

Bargnani shot 54.5%, 50.0%, and 50.8% in the three years of European ball prior to coming to the NBA. He shot 20%, 50%, and 43.4% from 3-point range.

He's putting up comparable numbers and that's it. As has even been said by several arguing for the article...Bonner plays with intensity while Bargnani has been lacking a certain drive. Right there does it for me. Bonner is playing like he always does while Bargnani is struggling mightily off his career pro numbers. That being said Bonner's shooting percentages are down (while his FT% is way up ) although his per game stats are very similar while he is playing similar minutes to what he did in Toronto.

To me it just looks like a bad comparison made simply because one is an ex-Raptor and the other is a struggling 1st overall.

[Sik_Wit_It]

Aside from Jay Bilas, the crew at ESPN have their heads so far up their ass, it's just gross.

Paying ESPN is like paying the bums under the Gardiner.

[Kordic27]

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I don't agree that Bonner and Bargnani are all that similar. Bonner was a better rebounder, but an absolute horror putting the ball on the floor, worse than Humphries. His man defence, lest anyone forget, was poor. Yes, he hustled, but Sam played him in the middle and he was abused regularly by bigger players, whereas Bargnani can hold his own one on one against most good big men. Bonner was so bad in the middle that we were regularly referring to Sam's "Man love" for him. Nobody could figure out why Sam played him the way he did.

And while Bonner can string a few three pointers together, he never had the impact on a game like Bargnani does when his shot is falling. on Wednesday, Kevin Garnett had to come out to cover Bargnani on the perimetre, which took their best big man far away from the basket. You never had to put a KG on Bonner on the perimetre. Pretty much anyone closing out hard could shut down Bonner, and Bonner couldn't sidestep a good close-out and hit a long two like Bargnani can.

I'm not knocking Bonner - he is what he is. And I'm not saying Bargnani has been playing well overall. But if Bargnani does nothing more than hit his shots with more consistently, he's a better and far more impactful presence for us, and anything he improves at is a bonus.

I'd say that's a good summary, but I think that Bargs' weaknesses at least equals Bonner weaknesses, and that Bargs's strengths don't quite equal Bonners, at the moment. I also think that Bargs' defense is highly overated on these boards, and it seems to me to be the reason that he fouls out (of the rotation, rather than the game) so much. I think the real question that has evolved from this thread is:

This year, with how they have both played, would the Raptors be better of with Bargs than with Bonner?

Personally, I'd prefer to have Bargs on the team, but that's in large part because I agree that he has more potential than Bonner. But there's no doubt in my mind that if Bonner was here instead of Bargs, we'd be better off at the moment.

[fabste]

too many posts to remember and quote when bargs will be a star
helpppppp!!

[Hoopstarr]

He says the Raps strongly considered Rudy Gay at #1. He was definitely my pick. Goes on to say that Bargnani is the biggest disappointment of the sophs this year.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Sophomores-080124&univLogin02=stateChanged&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dthorpe_david%26page%3dSophomores-080124%26univLogin02%3dstateChanged

[Schad]

He says the Raps strongly considered Rudy Gay at #1. He was definitely my pick. Goes on to say that Bargnani is the biggest disappointment of the sophs this year.

Hoopstarr: I have merged your thread with this one because it concerns the same chat wrap (plus, most of us don't have Insider access).

-Schad.

[El Presidente]

Have you noticed people only compare white players with other white players? You'll never hear anybody say, Andrea Bargnani's game is similar to a young Sam Perkins.

[highlightstick]

Bargnani = Al Harrington on a bad day

[PopAGat]

Lets just see how Bargnani pans out tonight. Hopefully he torches Bogut, since he is faster than him.