Don't look now, but...

djsunyc · Post #21 » by **djsunyc** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:33 pm

with 40 games to play, the knicks are only 5 games out.

the east is absolutely terrible. in all honesty, the nba is pretty darn terrible right now also.

Meursault · Post #22 » by **Meursault** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:27 pm

not to engage too much in counterfactual speculation, but you look at what Chris Paul is doing in New Orleans, and you have to ask yourself, would the Hawks be a top 3 seed if they had Paul instead of Marvin Williams (as good as he is, and as great as he might be)? The Hawks sans Williams are conceivably much more talented than the Hornets sans Paul...

Hank_Scorpio · Post #23 » by **Hank_Scorpio** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:45 pm

I'm not gonna write off the entire Eastern Conference just yet. At least not all of it.

These are the records of the top 7 teams in the Eastern Conference against the West:

Boston - 11-0
Detroit - 9-7
Orlando - 11-10
Cleveland - 11-6
Washington - 7-6
Toronto - 9-8
Atlanta - 7-6

So clearly, the West is not dominant against the better teams in the East.

I think the real big concern in the East is that teams like New Jersey, New York, Chicago and Miami are struggling - and of those teams, only Chicago really has the ability to turn it around quickly - the other teams are mired under big contracts to veteran players who are simply not getting it done.

Of those teams, of course, the saddest is Chicago - and for all this talk of Chicago "putting it together", they are 6-6 in January - not exactly a massive turnaround IMHO. Its sad because they just have SO MUCH TALENT on that roster and they just don't get that they need to trim the fat. They have a watershed offseason coming up with Nocioni, Gordon, Deng, and Duhon as FAs. The problem is that they also have Noah and Thomas who, if all of those guys are brought back, will never get a real chance to shine. Also IMHO, I don't think their management is up to the task. They have proven very adept at drafting talented players, but so far, they have not been able to follow it up with shrewd personnel moves. Is there anyone in Chicago who doesn't think the team would be MUCH better off with a 25 year old Tyson Chandler (12, 12, and 1) at center for $10 million vs. a 33 year old Ben Wallace (5, 9, and 1.6) at $14 mil a season?

btw - I also want to say something on Miami. What is happening to them is pure karma in the real sense of the word. Karma is not "I got my car keyed and while it was in the shop, I took the bus and on my way to the bus stop i bought a lottery ticket and won $5000". That is not karma. Karma is simply cause and effect. "I you do this, this will happen. If you do that, that will happen." If you kill someone, you will suffer as a result of that act. If you give $20 to a homeless person, will will ease your suffering as a result of that act.

And if you trade for a 300 pound center at the tail end of his career in hopes of squeezing at least one championship out of him, you are likely going to have to suffer as a result - and that is what is happening now. The question that Heat fans have to ask themselves - that Pat Riley has to ask himself - is "was it worth it?"

Hank_Scorpio · Post #24 » by **Hank_Scorpio** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:46 pm

Wow.....that really turned into quite the little rant there...

Pchu · Post #25 » by **Pchu** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:53 pm

I would say it's worth it if I am a Heat fan. Winning a championship is always the goal for any team.

And they aren't really that far back if they want to rebuild. Wade is still there, and they will have a high lottery pick, so that would make rebuilding a little easier.

I would probably rest Wade for the rest of the season; he is banged up and really need sometime to heal. And try to trade guys like Haslem and Davis to see if they can get some draft picks and young players.

dagger · Post #26 » by **dagger** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:55 pm

Magic All The Way wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

We wouldn't be in the playoffs if we were in the west.

Well, just to put things in perspective, we are 9-8 against the West and have more home games than road games left with Western Conference teams. With two games against Minnesota, one against Seattle, one against Sacramento, one against the Clippers, and home games against San Antonio, Denver, New Orleans and the Lakers, it's not inconceivable that we finish above .500 against the West.

So we would probably be competitive for a playoff spot in the West, though not currently occupying a playoff spot.

Post #27 » by **Shaazzam** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:56 pm

I would try to keep Haslem. He's a solid pro and I could see him playing on another championship team in his career.

dagger · Post #28 » by **dagger** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:58 pm

Pchu wrote:I would say it's worth it if I am a Heat fan. Winning a championship is always the goal for any team.

And they aren't really that far back if they want to rebuild. Wade is still there, and they will have a high lottery pick, so that would make rebuilding a little easier.

I would probably rest Wade for the rest of the season; he is banged up and really need sometime to heal. And try to trade guys like Haslem and Davis to see if they can get some draft picks and young players.

There are rumors Wade will be rested because of his shoulder not being fully healed. I'm all for it. We play them FOUR times - Miami without Shaq and Wade would be cupcake city!

no_hops_23 · Post #29 » by **no_hops_23** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:00 pm

The Bulls started 2-10. Since then they are 15-14. So basically for two months against an average sched they've been a .500 team. Can they improve? Yes. Have they turned the corner? 2 months of .500 ball would suggest otherwise.

Pchu · Post #30 » by **Pchu** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:01 pm

Shaazzam wrote:I would try to keep Haslem. He's a solid pro and I could see him playing on another championship team in his career.

But probably not in Miami. I like Haslem too, but the Heat needs some youth and Haslem is one of their few remaining asset.

Pchu · Post #31 » by **Pchu** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:05 pm

dagger wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

There are rumors Wade will be rested because of his shoulder not being fully healed. I'm all for it. We play them FOUR times - Miami without Shaq and Wade would be cupcake city!

It's not only his shoulder. It's his knee/ankle as well. Did you see the shape he was in when the TNT camera went to the Heat dressing at half time last night? He's nowhere near 100%. He can't move well laterally which kills his defense. I would strongly recommand him to rest and not play until he is 100%, whenever that may be. There is really no point for him to play hurt right now.

The_Hater · Post #32 » by **The_Hater** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:09 pm

Alfred wrote:Yep. They have their problems, but they are starting to put it together. Their offense is a work in progress, but at least you are starting to see their defense pull wins out against some of the weaker teams. Noah apparently is the flavour of the month for them, but the question is whether he is just the latest fad for them, or the real deal.

I don't know about that Alfred. They're still only 8-10 over the past 5 weeks it's just that Indiana and Jersey have been even worse. On top of that, they've been playing a fairly soft schedule as only 1 of those 8 wins have been against a winning team but they still managed to lose to Memphis, NY and Atlanta.

Add in injuries to Deng and now Gordan and a brutal February schedule on the horizon and this is still pretty mediocre/bad team going nowhere.

chsh22 · Post #33 » by **chsh22** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:38 pm

LittleOzzy wrote:This thread just shows how weak the East really is. No one thought the Bulls had a chance after the first two weeks but other teams in the East have given them the chance to crawl back up into the standings.

Yeah, and on top of that the Heat made a lot of people (myself included) look like fools. I had them pegged at anywhere from 3-5 in the East, not dead last.

TruWarrior · Post #34 » by **TruWarrior** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:58 pm

dagger wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Well, just to put things in perspective, we are 9-8 against the West and have more home games than road games left with Western Conference teams. With two games against Minnesota, one against Seattle, one against Sacramento, one against the Clippers, and home games against San Antonio, Denver, New Orleans and the Lakers, it's not inconceivable that we finish above .500 against the West.

So we would probably be competitive for a playoff spot in the West, though not currently occupying a playoff spot.

Glad you have finally seen the light, raptors would be competitve for a spot where in the East they are in the run for a top 4 spot. Puts into perspective your ludacris claims of how the east and west were even at the beginning of the year. BTW how are the blazers doing? still one of the worst 3 teams in in the leauge as you claimed before?

Post #35 » by **Schad** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:03 pm

dagger wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

There are rumors Wade will be rested because of his shoulder not being fully healed. I'm all for it. We play them FOUR times - Miami without Shaq and Wade would be cupcake city!

This is shaping up quite a bit like last year...not only do we play a soft schedule in the second half, but many of the softies won't even be putting up a fight; Miami and a number of other teams on our plate might be doing Panzer impressions by February.

EnigmaticProblem · Post #36 » by **EnigmaticProblem** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:07 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

This is shaping up quite a bit like last year...not only do we play a soft schedule in the second half, but many of the softies won't even be putting up a fight; Miami and a number of other teams on our plate might be doing Panzer impressions by February.

lol @ Panzer impressions.

RingItUp! · Post #37 » by **RingItUp!** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:16 pm

I want to talk about the Heat too.

At the beginning of the season, and yes this is tooting my own horn, I called the Heat out. I just knew they were done. The reason I made the prediction, which I normally don't do, was because my roommate has a family pool where they select teams before the season, and then the family member whose selected teams finish with the most combined wins (playoffs included), wins the pool. Pretty simple but I'd never seen a bball pool done this way.

It got me thinking about where I thought the teams would finish in the conference standings. It goes without saying that I messed a few up (ahem, Chicago), but right from the start, I knew the Heat were going to be awful. And? They're worse than I thought.

Shaq's beyond done. He can maybe play well in 1 out of every 6 games, which is no way justifies his monster contract. Wade? Hurt. Haslem? He's a nice hustle player, a complementary piece on a good team. The rest of the team? Not even worth mentioning. From Quinn and Williams at the point, to Davis and Wright on the wings, to MARK BLOUNT at the center spot.... Oh my. This is a franchise that is really paying the price for buying Shaq, as Hank put it.

San Antonio played as poorly as I've seen them play in a long time last night. On the far end of a back-to-back, getting into Miami at 5 am yesterday, they still managed to beat the Heat. Just ugly.

Special note to American broadcasters: don't put the Heat on national television. They aren't a factor and won't be for a while. Also, they're really boring.

James699 · Post #38 » by **James699** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:22 pm

This is the reason why the Vancouver Grizzlies left. They could not keep up with the teams in the West. The east is just a joke, if Grizzlies were in the Eastern conference they would have been exactly where the Raptors are in the standings. :nonono:

Kosta · Post #39 » by **Kosta** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:42 pm

dagger wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

There are rumors Wade will be rested because of his shoulder not being fully healed. I'm all for it. We play them FOUR times - Miami without Shaq and Wade would be cupcake city!

They're already cupcakes with vanilla icing and extra filling, hot out of the stove as is.

We get to face Miami, Minny and New York a combined 9 times the rest of the way. :droop: