From Fairy Tale to Growing Pains

[Hank_Scorpio]

Andrea Bargnani 22
Chris Bosh 23
Carlos Delfino 25
TJ Ford 24
Kris Humphries 22

Have the Raptors EVER had this much young talent on their roster?


As for Bargnani, I can't believe there are people STILL willing to write him off. Yes, he has struggled, but its still abundently apparent that he has the talent to succeed. And games like last night highlight that talent.

[Joker]

Andrea Bargnani 22
Chris Bosh 23
Carlos Delfino 25
TJ Ford 24
Kris Humphries 22

Have the Raptors EVER had this much young talent on their roster?

Say, we could be the next Chicago Bulls!

[Shaazzam]

Say, we could be the next Chicago Bulls!

Well if we give a huge contract to an aged athletic type player, we might be in danger of doing that.

[magani]

Andrea Bargnani 22
Chris Bosh 23
Carlos Delfino 25
TJ Ford 24
Kris Humphries 22

Have the Raptors EVER had this much young talent on their roster?


As for Bargnani, I can't believe there are people STILL willing to write him off. Yes, he has struggled, but its still abundently apparent that he has the talent to succeed. And games like last night highlight that talent.

The point is all this excitement will be for nothing if Bargs goes on a funk again. Something tells me that he did more than get his own confidence back last night. He got his teammates' confidence back as well. That's a chicken and egg type of thing because it seemed like Bargs was getting freezed out in some of the other games. Were those sam's instructions to limit his touches so he could focus on the other stuff. I like BCs podcast with Chad Ford and his comments about Bargs and how they still feel Bargs has all the tools to succeed. Sam also comes out and says that bargs can be part of a 'scary' good team. Hollinger depicts the same kind of vocabulary. It's interesting that ONE performance like that and everyone comes out and praises it. I also thought that Bargs was a huge key to the wide open offense and created all this space for Jose. This is what I want to see in the growing pains of this team.

[ScorKreaDagger]

Detroit definitely deserves to be in the conversation for title favourite. I think that this is the best team that they've had during their entire run.

Right now I'd include 5 teams. San Antonio, Detroit, Boston, Phoenix and Dallas as the teams that really have a chance to win it all. The Lakers, Hornets, Jazz, Nuggets and Rockets are the next best group and all of them could pull an upset in a playoff series but I can't see any of them crashing the party this year.

Don't look now but Boston's lost five of the last 10 games after only losing 3 in the first 31 games (including the loss to Toronto). They seem a little banged up and I think all those heavy minutes are finally taking their toll. The schedule is a big deal too because they were given one of the easiest ones with alot of home games early. who says that what was an accident. I'm starting to feel better about our team now that we're getting an easier schedule too and we're taking advantage of some teams.

[ldnk]

There are several things about this team:

1 - Last year was supposed to be a write-off. A good team, a competitive team, but one that lost a lot. Instead they kept on winning to the point that they made the playoffs and fought through youth problems in the post-season.

2 - The team is different from last year and they played an incredibly difficult schedule. Things get easier, and they are already slightly better than last years record. By the end of the year you should see the team at least match what they did, if not beat it by a game or two.

3 - Bargnani has struggled in his sophomore season. Lots of players do, it isn't like he has regressed in all aspects of his game. He has actually gotten better defensively and he is taking open shots...they aren't dropping. As a guy who shot over 50% in 3 years of pro ball in Italy (which is quite competitive basketball), I highly doubt that he will suck for the entire season, or at least beyond into next year when given open looks.

4 - Garbo is still out, he means a lot. As does the injury to Ford. Calderon has played incredibly well, but without Ford we have no backup PG and it screws to hell our bench. Our bench comes in and kills games, and then the starters have to play more to compensate for Dixon/Martin getting absolutely no ball movement.

5 - Last year the Raptors were the surprise team. They were the "easy" games circled on the calendar of other teams. This year that isn't the case. Teams will be ready to play against us because we are one of the 4-5 decent teams in the East.

[Bankai]

To hand out a simple fact, considering that the Raptors have lost their Starting PG in TJ Ford and Starting SF in Jorge Garbajosa and the Raptors with their depth have continued to hover above .500 is something i REALLY cannot complain about and im quite happy that it isint worse. If other teams lost 2 Starters, then they would struggle mightily, but the Raptors have continued to endure and I could see them possibly break the Win Record this year.

Coupled with a lingering foot injury on Bosh, a hand injury to Kapono, and a Offense regressed Bargnani (His D improved actually) and the tougher part of the schedule now gone, The Raptors have exceeded expectations (not like the Bulls and Heat who have disappointed theirs this year).

When TJ Ford comes back, and the other guys hopefully more healthy soon, this team is primed for a capable run to end the season. The Raptors forgotten man Jorge Garbajosa, if he somehow comes back before the playoff (maybe in the last month before the Playoffs to get him back in shape) I seriously think this team has a good chance to get past the First Round this year no matter who they face in the #3-#6 seed.

Ahh optimism at its finest...

[ScorKreaDagger]

To hand out a simple fact, considering that the Raptors have lost their Starting PG in TJ Ford and Starting SF in Jorge Garbajosa and the Raptors with their depth have continued to hover above .500 is something i REALLY cannot complain about and im quite happy that it isint worse. If other teams lost 2 Starters, then they would struggle mightily, but the Raptors have continued to endure and I could see them possibly break the Win Record this year.

Coupled with a lingering foot injury on Bosh, a hand injury to Kapono, and a Offense regressed Bargnani (His D improved actually) and the tougher part of the schedule now gone, The Raptors have exceeded expectations (not like the Bulls and Heat who have disappointed theirs this year).

When TJ Ford comes back, and the other guys hopefully more healthy soon, this team is primed for a capable run to end the season. The Raptors forgotten man Jorge Garbajosa, if he somehow comes back before the playoff (maybe in the last month before the Playoffs to get him back in shape) I seriously think this team has a good chance to get past the First Round this year no matter who they face in the #3-#6 seed.

Ahh optimism at its finest...

Not to be the bearer of bad news here, but TJ and Garbo duplicate and realistically don't measure up to the players who now occupy those positions. A healthy TJ wouldn't be playing any better than Jose is now. He would simply have the solid backup to go full tilt for the 28 minutes he was out there. Garbo wasn't even going to start for us and I'd argue he'd be a bit player for us this year behind Bosh and probably 4th/5th off the bench. It's not like these 2 guys will be magically inserted into the starting lineup anytime, if ever any time soon. It'd be different if we were taliking about Bosh or AP being injured where we would know we had an inferior player keeping their spot warm. We're manging to get by for the time being and have increased depth with TJ/Garbo, but let's not think they'd play appreciably better than the current starters at those positions. Now TJ off the bench and Garbo as the 10th man would help a lot.

[99 Problems]

TJ I can understand but the Garbo thing is beyond me... All these sportswriters and some fans talking about how we're missing two key guys in Garbo and TJ..

TJ was our starting point guard and playing terrific before he was injured... Garbo stunk up the building and was whining on the bench before he had to have that surgery, and everybody knew he wasn't going to be the same as before that nasty leg injury...He became a glorified jump shooting big who lost all of his lateral quickness... And now Garbo is not one of our key players, there's no position he can be a starter in, and at best he's a tough minded backup PF/SF who would be fighting with Hump, who's improved tremendously and Rasho, who used to be starting, for spot minutes off the bench...

If you consider Garbo a SF then Jamario is by far an upgrade, if he's a PF then Smitch would put him behind CB4 and Hump, and as C behind Andrea and Rasho... I honestly can't see him in any significant role other than special matchups or injuries...

[Bankai]

-= original quote snipped =-



Not to be the bearer of bad news here, but TJ and Garbo duplicate and realistically don't measure up to the players who now occupy those positions. A healthy TJ wouldn't be playing any better than Jose is now. He would simply have the solid backup to go full tilt for the 28 minutes he was out there. Garbo wasn't even going to start for us and I'd argue he'd be a bit player for us this year behind Bosh and probably 4th/5th off the bench. It's not like these 2 guys will be magically inserted into the starting lineup anytime, if ever any time soon. It'd be different if we were taliking about Bosh or AP being injured where we would know we had an inferior player keeping their spot warm. We're manging to get by for the time being and have increased depth with TJ/Garbo, but let's not think they'd play appreciably better than the current starters at those positions. Now TJ off the bench and Garbo as the 10th man would help a lot.

I dont agree with most of this. TJ has been our starting PG before he went down, and for most of the 82 games last year Garbajosa was our starting SF before he went down with that leg injury. Now, the point was that when teams lost 2 starters, they struggle. But I commended the depth that the Raptors have. We are talking starters here, of course if Bosh goes down, it almost equals another team losing their best player, but we are not talking Franchise/Max Money type players here.

Next, I am well aware that when TJ comes back he will most likely be coming off the bench till further notice. But most can agree that they would rather have these 2 guys together for 48 minutes of solid PG play. Jose is playing real well right now, I cant say otherwise. But TJ was no slouch either before he went down. I still do expect TJ coming back for PG depth will help in creating a Raptors winning streak. He is invaluble to us as any of our spotlight players.

Garbajosa on the other hand is another story. Jorge brings alot to the table, but like you said, Moon has most of that covered. I dont he is as valuable to the Raptors as Ford is, but he is still a good asset. Sam Mitchell also must have felt so too keeping him in the games, where most of us see alot of bricks. I feel Garbajosa is the JoeyG-MoPete situation I thought last year. Most people ripped me when I said that I expect Mo Pete to have an impact in the playoffs, and said Joey Graham is enough. But surprise, Mo Pete experience came into play and it did pay off. I predict that Garbajosa will be useful in the playoffs as well as all those guys who said the Raptors missed Jorge in the playoffs before the start of this season.

I am not talking about blasphemy if Jose and Moon lose their starting roles. Im talking about wanting Raptor players back and healthy and feeling that they are in position to make some noise. Whats the beef here?

[ScorKreaDagger]

[quote="Bankai"][/quote]

I think that's the point of my argument. They were starters last year and good ones for the team. But, they're not returning as the same players and probably will have minimal impact compared to last year's contributions. So to project last years' TJ and last years Garbo onto this team is misleading. I wish that could happen. Their presence adds depth to our team and relieves our 'new' starters that have held the ship together. The Bosh refernece was extreme but agent Zero was lost to washington and they haven't fallen apart. So, when he comes back, will that not add a jolt because he'll be appreciably better than Daniels? Granted it may talke awhile.

[magani]

This was a game that definitely highlights the holes on this club right now going forward. There is no consistency in a winning streak when we are so dependent on our jumpshots going in to compete. We're fine if we hit them like we did in the first half. I don't know if this current crop can overcome the offensive rebounds they give up every night. We routinely outshoot the other team, but still end up squeaking a win or losing like tonight. Thank God we aren't turnover prone or the other team would have 20 more shot attempts than us every night (turovers plus rebounding differential). Some balance is needed so we don't have to shoot the lights out every night. Bargs was actually a plus player tonight and again was taken out for what reason? Sam talks about enduring these 'growing pains' but when he gets a little uncomfortable about the game, he chucks player development out the window. We're going to burn out Bosh and Jose the way we're going and they won't have anything left for the playoffs.