Bosh and contact

jeffya2 · Post #21 » by **jeffya2** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:33 pm

Bosh has a huge problem ...... There's always 2-3 players surrounding him as we have NO big help down low for him. He's doing incredible work for us under the circumstances

MikeM · Post #22 » by **MikeM** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:23 pm

Bosh doesn't get fouled right under the rim like Amare. He still converts at a good percentage though.

WaltFrazier · Post #23 » by **WaltFrazier** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:49 pm

I don't deserve the hostility I've received here. I clearly stated that CB is doing a great job in general, and of getting to the line in particular. Maybe I am being too picky, but every game I say to the TV, c'mon finish that, a couple of times. But I guess 11th in the league isn't so bad.

Surely others can also see that if he was a bit stronger, he would power through some of those fouls and dunk the ball. Yes he's a great player now, and still young, but there's always room for improvement.

ruckus · Post #24 » by **ruckus** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:30 pm

I think a lot of times, Bosh goes into contact not even looking to make the basket but, first and foremost to hopefully get the call and go to the line. So, what you may call "not finishing after contact", I call "looking for contact not, looking to finish".

As long as he gets the calls, I don't see it to be a problem.

seanied · Post #25 » by **seanied** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:42 pm

tetley wrote:I guess I'm the only one who thinks the OP has a legit beef. I hate that Bosh can't finish after contact like a more powerful player like Amare or Dwight can. At the same time I realize that there are only a handful of players who can finish after getting hacked and I acknowledge that Bosh is one of the best bigmen in the league at getting to the line.

I don't think anyone can honestly say that they haven't wished Bosh was the same type finisher as, say, Amare, at one point or another.

I have a beef about his PG play too.

My point being that his slender build gives him some advantages and some disadvantages. I don't personally like to focus on an all-star's negatives. The guy's doing great.

LLJ · Post #26 » by **LLJ** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:56 pm

The reason why Bosh doesn't have and1s as often (although I think a lot of people are underestimating how much he really has, I think he has quite a lot) is that Bosh is built, strengthwise, a lot like swingmen. He's a pretty unique scorer in that he's applying mostly swingmen tactics against big men. Not a lot of bigs can get the ball from as far out as he can and just drive to the bucket Kobe style.

As such, when he gets knocked, it's usually by his own man, before he's gotten deep enough to finish.

And I think most coaches tell their opposing bigs to hack Bosh before he gets too deep. They can track his drives, even if they can't stop it. Therefore they'll usually hack him right at the point of liftoff.

bballin · Post #27 » by **bballin** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:20 pm

ruckus wrote:I think a lot of times, Bosh goes into contact not even looking to make the basket but, first and foremost to hopefully get the call and go to the line. So, what you may call "not finishing after contact", I call "looking for contact not, looking to finish".

As long as he gets the calls, I don't see it to be a problem.

Its generally not a problem in the regular season but if he does this in the playoffs it will become a concern as this is where the refs tend to put away the whistles

Raps_Swingman · Post #28 » by **Raps_Swingman** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:23 pm

I actually thing Bosh has showed more poise and strength when finishing between 2 defenders. He did it a couple times last night where Davis and Perkins were both there, bodying him. Bosh is still just 23, hes legitmately not even a man yet.

PopAGat · Post #29 » by **PopAGat** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:09 pm

Bosh has done everything we've needed. I don't see how you can complain about him. He gets and 1's when theres a good chance in him making it and if he doesn't he'll make both free throws most of the time.(Referring to OP)

jonny three time · Post #30 » by **jonny three time** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:16 pm

Where Bosh's offensive game is lacking is his passing game and the quickness in how he makes his moves. Last night versus Boston was a perfect example of how possessions are either "Bosh possessions" or "eveyone else possessions". He's never a part of the quick passing sets, only occasionaly starting them when passing out of a double team. If he could tap into the flow of the offense better rather than dedicating a certain amount of slowed-down Bosh ISO plays, we'd have one of the best offenses in the league.

His ability to finish And 1s will improve as he gets stronger. But if he loses agility and athleticism trying to gain strength its just not worth it. Playmaking and playing at a consisitent quick-pace are his biggest need for improvement.

Post #31 » by **HiJiNX** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:46 am

To expect Bosh to finish as well as Amare or DHoward or Tim Duncan, the best finishers in the league, is pretty ridiculous. Could Bosh finish better around the rim? Of course, but no player is perfect (except for maybe MJ who had seemingly no holes in his game), so we shouldn't ride him for one of his few weaknesses when he does so many other things very well.

99 Problems · Post #32 » by **99 Problems** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:12 am

Man a lot of people have serious reading comprehension issues, no need to get so hostile...

I agree with the OP, I used to think Bosh had a good feel for the basket inside but lately he has been missing easy layups around the basket after a really soft touch foul... Last night he drove around Big Baby and had a wide open layup, but Tony Allen happened to bump him a little bit and CB4 missed the layup point blank...

I think its pretty simple, he's not really putting the ball up strong enough... he's getting a little too finesse when sometimes you have to just power your way through... fatigue may be a factor as well........ Also I don't think he's strong enough to do that consistently over a 48 min game at this point in his career... He probably gets tired just defending the bigger post guys all night... maybe in a couple of years when he hopefully adds a few more pounds of muscle and gets chiseled like a KG or JO....

99 Problems · Post #33 » by **99 Problems** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:20 am

jonny three time wrote:Where Bosh's offensive game is lacking is his passing game and the quickness in how he makes his moves. Last night versus Boston was a perfect example of how possessions are either "Bosh possessions" or "eveyone else possessions". He's never a part of the quick passing sets, only occasionaly starting them when passing out of a double team. If he could tap into the flow of the offense better rather than dedicating a certain amount of slowed-down Bosh ISO plays, we'd have one of the best offenses in the league.

His ability to finish And 1s will improve as he gets stronger. But if he loses agility and athleticism trying to gain strength its just not worth it. Playmaking and playing at a consisitent quick-pace are his biggest need for improvement.

Man that was a great post.. I've never thought of that...

I think we could do a lot more in pick and roll situations with CB, but pick and ROLL not pick and POP, which encourages him to take the shot... I like how Nash and Amare/Marion have that quick pick and pop where they just go over the defender and roll to the basket, drawing the defense... If we could incorporate that into our offense, I think guys like Kapono would get a lot more open 3's, and Hump and Bargs would have a lot of point blank layups and dunks around the basket since their man would help out on Bosh and they could cut in....

Smitch is probably going to take 2 more years to figure out anything more complex than the basic pick and roll we have going though....

WaltFrazier · Post #34 » by **WaltFrazier** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:10 am

jonny three time wrote:Where Bosh's offensive game is lacking is his passing game and the quickness in how he makes his moves. Last night versus Boston was a perfect example of how possessions are either "Bosh possessions" or "eveyone else possessions". He's never a part of the quick passing sets, only occasionaly starting them when passing out of a double team. If he could tap into the flow of the offense better rather than dedicating a certain amount of slowed-down Bosh ISO plays, we'd have one of the best offenses in the league.

Tonight there were too many "Bosh possessions" and not enough "quick passing sets". The offense completely bogged down in the 2nd half, especially the OT. Bosh tried hard and played great despite some turnovers and a few times settling for jumpers. But Sam needs to diversify the offense more. It's too much stand around, throw it to CB.

dinosaur_dan · Post #35 » by **dinosaur_dan** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:30 am

Well, it just so happens that 82 games studied this very thing 2 years ago.:

http://www.82games.com/andone.htm

In 2005-2006 Chris Bosh was 11th in the league for and-1 free throws attempted, though his percentage of shooting fouls leading to an and-1 attempt was not in the top 20. In other words, this tells us that Bosh gets fouled. A lot. Which we already knew.

Sadly, it has not been updated since then, so we are left to argue.