REBOUNDS anyone???

El Presidente · Post #41 » by **El Presidente** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:09 pm

How bad does it have to get before BC realizes that this team can't rebound as it is and needs help. What's this nonsense of Damon Stoudamire coming here, we need a PF/C more than another PG, Dixon isn't that terrible and Calderon can play minutes. We need to prioritize our needs and address them sequentially starting with rebounding.

The worst part about this situation is that this just didn't prop up last week, we've been like all season and even last year we had issues. Don't tell me the Garbajosa injury is holding us back because he was injured a looooong time ago an BC has had ample time to make a move. He just hasn't for whatever reason and continues to hope Bargnani will become a 10 rebound which might never happen.

RapsVC15 · Post #42 » by **RapsVC15** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:10 pm

We're a horrible rebounding team.

This ain't a individual, point the finger at one guy thing.

Joker · Post #43 » by **Joker** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:38 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Indeed we do. So let's take a look at opponent offensive rebounding %'s, which have nothing to do with pace and then calm down from the frustraing loss last night.

According to that page:

OREB% = Percentage of offensive rebounds (OREB/(OREB+opposition DREB))

So if I'm understanding this correctly, the more DEFENSIVE rebounds the opposing team gets against us, the lower/better our defensive OREB% is? So if we never get offensive rebounds, then that actually helps our OREB%, correct? And are we not a bad offensive rebounding team?

This stat seems pretty fishy to me.

rocket2981 · Post #44 » by **rocket2981** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:56 pm

One guy who was very disapointing last night in my opinion is Humphries. He played a good offensive game but he's supposed to be our best rebounder and he was constantly overmatched.

By the way, Bargs got 6 rebounds in 17 minutes and he was AWOL in the 4th quarter.

Fairview4Life · Post #45 » by **Fairview4Life** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:37 pm

Joker wrote:According to that page:

OREB% = Percentage of offensive rebounds (OREB/(OREB+opposition DREB))

So if I'm understanding this correctly, the more DEFENSIVE rebounds the opposing team gets against us, the lower/better our defensive OREB% is? So if we never get offensive rebounds, then that actually helps our OREB%, correct? And are we not a bad offensive rebounding team?

This stat seems pretty fishy to me.

You misunderstand. OREB% is the percentage of a teams offensive rebounds divided by the total available rebounds. So, when you look at the offensive side (the 4 left columns) the OREB% is the Raps offensive rebounds divided by (Raps offensive rebounds + opponent defensive rebounds). Everything gets inversed in the right hand defensive "OREB%" column, it's the opponent offensive rebounds divided by (opponent offensive rebounds + Raps defensive rebounds). It's literally just the % of offensive rebounds given up out of the total number of rebounds available on either end.

Despite that paragraph, it's pretty simple, and not fishy at all. The Raps had a **** game last night on the defensive boards, but over the course of the season they've been the 9th best team in the NBA, % wise.

Edit: the Raps were also 12th I believe last year, but are again near the bottom on the offensive glass (last year they were dead last). Defensive rebounding over the past two years has not been the problem. Obviously things can improve, but it's not the huge issue everyone seems to be making it. One bad game doesn't change how things have gone over the course of 1.5 seasons.

Post #46 » by **Shaazzam** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:50 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:
You misunderstand. OREB% is the percentage of a teams offensive rebounds divided by the total available rebounds. So, when you look at the offensive side (the 4 left columns) the OREB% is the Raps offensive rebounds divided by (Raps offensive rebounds + opponent defensive rebounds). Everything gets inversed in the right hand defensive "OREB%" column, it's the opponent offensive rebounds divided by (opponent offensive rebounds + Raps defensive rebounds). It's literally just the % of offensive rebounds given up out of the total number of rebounds available on either end.

Despite that paragraph, it's pretty simple, and not fishy at all. The Raps had a **** game last night on the defensive boards, but over the course of the season they've been the 9th best team in the NBA, % wise.

Edit: the Raps were also 12th I believe last year, but are again near the bottom on the offensive glass (last year they were dead last). Defensive rebounding over the past two years has not been the problem. Obviously things can improve, but it's not the huge issue everyone seems to be making it. One bad game doesn't change how things have gone over the course of 1.5 seasons.

I think what drives people mental is that is seems like we will surrender key defensive rebounds. And those aren't really quantifiable, because they don't always occur in the same points in the game and I'm not sure if you can measure momentum.

Fairview4Life · Post #47 » by **Fairview4Life** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:56 pm

Shaazzam wrote:I think what drives people mental is that is seems like we will surrender key defensive rebounds. And those aren't really quantifiable, because they don't always occur in the same points in the game and I'm not sure if you can measure momentum.

I disagree. I've seen (and made) numerous comments about Moon (this year), and Bosh and AP in particular over the past two years, grabbing key defensive boards in close games/clutch situations. I think what drives people mental are games like last night when an opposing team ends up with 3-4 shots in one possession, and that happens like 6-7 times in the 4th quarter and OT. This makes people forget the previous 40 games and rant about the Raps terrible defensive rebounding. Perspective sometimes flies out the window after a frustrating performance like last night.

anon2222 · Post #48 » by **anon2222** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:37 pm

Sean Williams from the nets. He can rebound and block shots plus he is young.

Post #49 » by **Shaazzam** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:46 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:
I disagree. I've seen (and made) numerous comments about Moon (this year), and Bosh and AP in particular over the past two years, grabbing key defensive boards in close games/clutch situations. I think what drives people mental are games like last night when an opposing team ends up with 3-4 shots in one possession, and that happens like 6-7 times in the 4th quarter and OT. This makes people forget the previous 40 games and rant about the Raps terrible defensive rebounding. Perspective sometimes flies out the window after a frustrating performance like last night.

That's a good point.

kavan · Post #50 » by **kavan** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:58 pm

We gota use Bargniani make him drop 20 points or so a couple games and get everyone thinking stupid and just move him and just make a strong run at the playoffs we have all but the C we need. Nestro would make a great guy off the bench.

3inakey · Post #51 » by **3inakey** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:42 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I disagree. I've seen (and made) numerous comments about Moon (this year), and Bosh and AP in particular over the past two years, grabbing key defensive boards in close games/clutch situations. I think what drives people mental are games like last night when an opposing team ends up with 3-4 shots in one possession, and that happens like 6-7 times in the 4th quarter and OT. This makes people forget the previous 40 games and rant about the Raps terrible defensive rebounding. Perspective sometimes flies out the window after a frustrating performance like last night.

It was frustrating, but in any season, there are games like this. In other news the Spurs lost to the Sonics. Yes rebounding in general is a problem for the Raptors, but so far, their strengths outweigh their weaknesses. Thanks for the reality check Fairview.