Defensive Pride

[Local_NG_Idiot]

I just watched the entire game all over again. I wanted to do a writeup for the whole game, but got lazy by the time I got to the 2nd quarter. The below diagram basically shows which Raptor and the amount of mistakes they allowed whenever the Spurs either i) scored, ii) went to the free throw line, or iii) got an offensive rebound.

[url=http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/2/12/f_DefensiveRem_a846720.png](picture)[/URL]


EDIT: Some criteria that I used

a) Even if the defender played solid defense with their hands all up over the offensive player, and the latter still managed to score, I counted it as a mistake on the part of the defender. If you had told me before yesterday's game that Ginobili would've made 3 3 point shots with Delfino all over him, I wouldn't have believed you.

b) Everyone was judged based on the same standards. No leeway was given for Bargnani just because he was a sophomore player.

c) Lastly, and I want to stress this. I didn't note anything down during the times the Spurs didn't score or didn't get an offensive rebound. So that pic basically only provides half or 2/3s the story.

I hope this is your idea of a joke....

[3inakey]

Some people in this thread are reliving past years of the Raptors. The Raptors are not a terrible defensive team and watching other teams in the league more often should convince anyone of that.

Calling the Raptors a terrible defensive team is understandable when the blood is high after a loss. Analytically though, it's an untrue statement. Rasho, Bosh and Parker are all good at their positions. Delfino, and Moon are disruptive in their own ways.

Manu Ginobli is one of the best wing players on the planet, and when you allow a wing player to heat up, sometimes there is literally nothing you can do. It is a trend however that the Raptors can be intimidated or thrown off their game by a dominant wing player. This seems to be because they can't answer with their own.

We are not at the point where we can legitimately challenge the elite in the post-season. There are holes and experience deficits on this team that are well-known, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Death Knight]

Some people in this thread are reliving past years of the Raptors. The Raptors are not a terrible defensive team and watching other teams in the league more often should convince anyone of that.

Calling the Raptors a terrible defensive team is understandable when the blood is high after a loss. Analytically though, it's an untrue statement. Rasho, Bosh and Parker are all good at their positions. Delfino, and Moon are disruptive in their own ways.

Manu Ginobli is one of the best wing players on the planet, and when you allow a wing player to heat up, sometimes there is literally nothing you can do. It is a trend however that the Raptors can be intimidated or thrown off their game by a dominant wing player. This seems to be because they can't answer with their own.

We are not at the point where we can legitimately challenge the elite in the post-season. There are holes and experience deficits on this team that are well-known, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

No one is expecting a championship, but this team should have a better record that they do right now. When you consider that this team had a much worse of a start last season and compare the team to where they are right now, there isn't much improvement. Their record at this point in time and last season is actually the same or close to it. Raptors had a much better start this season and still haven't improved from last years record at this point in time.

[Death Knight]

And If I am correct, the Raptors might be the only team above 500 not to have at least a 5 game winning streak this season. Everyone else that is above 500 has gone on some streak. Shows how mediocre and inconsistent this team really is.

[3inakey]

-= original quote snipped =-



No one is expecting a championship, but this team should have a better record that they do right now. When you consider that this team had a much worse of a start last season and compare the team to where they are right now, there isn't much improvement. Their record at this point in time and last season is actually the same or close to it. Raptors had a much better start this season and still haven't improved from last years record at this point in time.

Granted. But how many more games were you expecting to win? I had them pegged at +/- 3 at most. Harder start last year, but easier schedule. Let's see how they do now that the schedule is softening up and especially after the all-star break. The biggest difference this year is that this team is practically the same in terms of record on the Road or at Home.

Obviously we're all waiting for the click moment, where the Raptors string together a stretch of games where they play consistently to their current potential. What is that? Possible second round exit. Post all-star and playoffs baby, hang on tight.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

-= original quote snipped =-
No one is expecting a championship, but this team should have a better record that they do right now. When you consider that this team had a much worse of a start last season and compare the team to where they are right now, there isn't much improvement. Their record at this point in time and last season is actually the same or close to it. Raptors had a much better start this season and still haven't improved from last years record at this point in time.

How quickly we forget this season has been played with 2 of the starters from last seasons team missing.

[Death Knight]

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How quickly we forget this season has been played with 2 of the starters from last seasons team missing.

Lets not pull a Toronto Blue Jays here. Always blaming things on healthy and making excuses...saying, once we get everyone back, we will compete. Even when the Blue Jays were healthy, the were still mediocre. Also, the replacement players actually did a pretty good job, if not better than what the injured players would have been able to do. The fact is, it's rare in sports that teams go through an entire season fully healthy with a full healthy roster.

[Death Knight]

-= original quote snipped =-



Granted. But how many more games were you expecting to win? I had them pegged at +/- 3 at most. Harder start last year, but easier schedule. Let's see how they do now that the schedule is softening up and especially after the all-star break. The biggest difference this year is that this team is practically the same in terms of record on the Road or at Home.

Obviously we're all waiting for the click moment, where the Raptors string together a stretch of games where they play consistently to their current potential. What is that? Possible second round exit. Post all-star and playoffs baby, hang on tight.

This season's early schedule is just as tough as last season. And same like last season, the schedule soften up in the 2nd half. It's already past the 2nd half and I don't see much improvement.

[Andiamo]

reuben patterson anyone?

[Death Knight]

And don't think that the upcoming games against the Knicks, Bobcats, Heat are going to be guarantee victories. With the inconsistency of the team and it's reputation to have let down games like no other team, they might not win enough of those "supposed to win" games to fully take advantage of a supposedly easier schedule.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

-= original quote snipped =-
Lets not pull a Toronto Blue Jays here. Always blaming things on healthy and making excuses...saying, once we get everyone back, we will compete. Even when the Blue Jays were healthy, the were still mediocre. Also, the replacement players actually did a pretty good job, if not better than what the injured players would have been able to do. The fact is, it's rare in sports that teams go through an entire season fully healthy with a full healthy roster.

First to second unit replacements no, there hasn't been much of a drop. Where it has hurt is second to third unit replacements. Plus with the shortened rotation of competent players for the extended injuries they are forced to play heavier minutes.

The second unit last season absolutely destroyed opposing second units. This year to date that just hasn't happened and it's because of the key guys missing (and not just a few games like Bosh and Bargs missed but large chunks, like TJ and Garbo have missed).

[reck0n3r]

Bosh can definitely be a better defensive player than he is right now, but I think that will only happen when he doesn't have to focus so much on the offensive end. A lot of the times I just get the impression he's afraid of picking up a foul.

It's a crying shame that someone with his athletic ability cannot provide any lane intimidation whatsoever. I believe his shot blocking numbers are similar to that of Dirk Nowitzki, as in, the lowest of any all-star bigmen.

Some people like to mention the fact that a lot of fans keep making excuses for bargnani. My main excuses for him were that a) he wasn't getting enough playing time and getting quick hooks and b) he's only been in the league for a short period of time and hasn't been given a fair shake as of yet while also trying to learn his new position.

What's bosh's excuse?

I really think he's capable of being a defensive force, but he needs to take it personally and stop worrying about fouls. Again, I think he may pick it up as the scoring load shifts moreso to bargs (hopefully that will happen sooner rather than later).

[99 Problems]

Some people in this thread are reliving past years of the Raptors. The Raptors are not a terrible defensive team and watching other teams in the league more often should convince anyone of that.

Calling the Raptors a terrible defensive team is understandable when the blood is high after a loss. Analytically though, it's an untrue statement. Rasho, Bosh and Parker are all good at their positions. Delfino, and Moon are disruptive in their own ways.

Manu Ginobli is one of the best wing players on the planet, and when you allow a wing player to heat up, sometimes there is literally nothing you can do. It is a trend however that the Raptors can be intimidated or thrown off their game by a dominant wing player. This seems to be because they can't answer with their own.



We are not at the point where we can legitimately challenge the elite in the post-season. There are holes and experience deficits on this team that are well-known, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

I disagree. I watch a lot of other games and I see a difference... Other teams usually have one or two strong defenders, even if their overall team defense sucks, we have nobody.....No need to sugarcoat anything, our defense is a joke more often than not... This excuse of 'player x' is an elite player is getting old... Its not really about whether a player drops 30-40 points.. Its about how easy they do it... Ginobili was WIDE OPEN for nearly half the game, and that allowed him to get into a rhythm...Hamilton got open shots off of nearly every screen, and later said the 39 he dropped on us was the easiest in his career... Kobe scored 46 so easily everybody on ESPN was making fun of our defense, how many dunks did he have uncontested?... Maggette didn't break a sweat....Our wins more often than not come from our offense.... And it seems that the consensus around the league and media is that we are still a subpar defensive team on most nights...

From watching this team, we have a long way to go... Our best players happen to be mediocre defenders, our system might be inherently flawed, too many mistakes occur that are a result of the players miscommunicating rather than the opposing player being unstoppable... Moon gambles and floats too much, Bargs hasn't realized he has to play help defense, Bosh fails to box out or gets caught out of position a lot, AP gets clowned every game, Delfino loves to hack and gamble, and Jose is just a pylon at this point... Rasho sadly might be our smartest defender...

We've improved a lot, I admit.. But I'm not ready to say we're an average defensive team....There are nights where I actually am impressed by our defense, like the San Antonio win on the road... But nights like are few and far between...we usually have 5 bad defensive games for every 1 good one... The plus is that defense is mostly experience, Moon has the potential to be a stopper with some years under his belt, and our core is young enough to improve as well... Also, as we get some new, younger, athletic blood over the next few years with Rasho, AP, Garbo being eased out of the rotation, we should get quicker and stronger defensively....The upcoming playoffs should help to raise everybody's defensive intensity, and hopefully it will carry on to next season...

[Duffman100]

Fairview, you around?

The first half of the NJ games was the defence I want to see from Bosh. He was active, boxing people out, and was playing smart. He let Boone by him once, but someone didn't rotate. And two Swift jumpers and one Sean Williams jumper which I'll live with for sure.