Prime Amir Johnson or Current Serge Ibaka?

[Slade3]

There's only a handful of people's opinions on here that I rate and this thread is a good example why. Even if serge is not as good as he was he's still better than Amir ever was. Amir could hardly handle the ball without turning it over. Defensively amir was better than serge but that's about it. The moment you see Amir getting ready to set a screen you knew it was a turnover waiting to happen. I've never seen a player in this league pick up more fouls than Amir on setting screens. Some of you guys have smoked yourselves silly. Then again there's people on here that don't like serge because he's the reason JV's minutes got cut even more and he'll be part of the reason JV will be gone by trade deadline.

Bro, that's half the game. Lol

That's not half the game smh there's many other factors to being a good player. Why do I even waste my time smh.

Are you even listening to yourself? Defense is half the game. Offense is the other half. The game is about scoring and stopping the other team from doing the same. Amir is better at almost every defensive stat than Serge. Deal with it.

[RaptorsNorth]

Bro, that's half the game. Lol

That's not half the game smh there's many other factors to being a good player. Why do I even waste my time smh.

Are you even listening to yourself? Defense is half the game. Offense is the other half. The game is about scoring and stopping the other team from doing the same. Amir is better at almost every defensive stat than Serge. Deal with it.

dude there's many players that are good offensive players and decent defensive players in the D league right now. That's not the only thing that factors into being a good NBA player lol Amir was never a better player than serge at any point in his career. NEVER!!!!!!!

[RaptorsNorth]

Prime amir wasn't even talked about around the league or even close to being a NBA allstar. These guys on here kill me with their overrating of energy guys. Let me guess the Junkyard Dog was a great player too right ?

[Slade3]

That's not half the game smh there's many other factors to being a good player. Why do I even waste my time smh.

Are you even listening to yourself? Defense is half the game. Offense is the other half. The game is about scoring and stopping the other team from doing the same. Amir is better at almost every defensive stat than Serge. Deal with it.

dude there's many players that are good offensive players and decent defensive players in the D league right now. That's not the only thing that factors into being a good NBA player lol Amir was never a better player than serge at any point in his career. NEVER!!!!!!!

Where did I say in any of my posts that Amir was a better player? I'm talking about Amir being a better defensive player and not just an energy or hustle guy.

[RaptorsNorth]

Are you even listening to yourself? Defense is half the game. Offense is the other half. The game is about scoring and stopping the other team from doing the same. Amir is better at almost every defensive stat than Serge. Deal with it.

dude there's many players that are good offensive players and decent defensive players in the D league right now. That's not the only thing that factors into being a good NBA player lol Amir was never a better player than serge at any point in his career. NEVER!!!!!!!

Where did I say in any of my posts that Amir was a better player? I'm talking about Amir being a better defensive player and not just an energy or hustle guy.

serge did things better than Amir defensively like shot blocking. He was a better rim protect than ever Amir was. Anyways the OP asked which was better. prime Amir or serge now ? Amir was never a better basketball player than serge at any point is his career. NEVER!!!!

[Double Helix]

Prediction: This will be Ibaka's best RPM year in over 2. The defence will be close to last year but with Patterson moved out the regression will credit some of what Patterson was credited for to Ibaka and even a slight boost there and he's moving up the board there.

Others will see RPM boosts as well. Will be interesting to see how it plays out mathematically by the end of next year and see which players on the Raptors move up the most.

[jonny three time]

While prime Amir's defense is clearly being underrated on here by many, his overall game is being overrated on here by the rest.

Consider this...we became a significantly better team the season after Amir moved on. The only additions of significance we made that year were Cory and Biz. So clearly he wasn't the game changer his stats made him look to be. He was a fantastic glue guy, but we were a bad team for years with him, so you can't say he was a star player who elevated his team all that much just because of advanced stats.

With Ibaka 3 pt shot being so key at the PF position in this era of basketball, you have to give him the edge. The effectiveness of both guys defense and intangibles might be comparable, but there's no way to justify killing a team's spacing for whatever difference there is with the rest of each guy's game.

[Brinbe]

They aren't even comparable, wth... I love Amir but he's so wildly overrated on here.

[CoachD]

[Kevin Willis]

Saying he was nothing more than an energy player is the only joke here.

He was though.

Saying he was nothing more than an energy player is the only joke here.

Yeah you're right he was super skilled.

The green font wasn't necessary. He was super skilled. Best defender we had, and it wasn't even close. We were significantly better with him on the floor every year. There was a real argument to be made that he was our second best player during his tenure here. His on/off numbers, screen assist numbers, and defensive metrics all speak for themselves.

It wasn't a coincidence that he was good at basically everything. I wouldn't say there was any "skill" he lacked aside from ball handling. His shooting, passing, screening, post defense, and pick and roll defense were all better than the average big and his metrics all reflected that.

He did all of this while playing through a bevy of injuries. The guy was a freaking rock, and the insinuation that he was some unskilled stiff is laughable.

He sounds a lot like a Kevin Garnett.

- Best defender
- Shooting
- Passing
- Screening
- Post Defense
- Pick and roll defense
- Weakness ball handling

I like Amir and he's a good pf but Serge Ibaka is borderline All-Star in the East. Amir was never that. He was our Bruce Bowen but Serge is our third option. Very different.

[Double Helix]

Oh, Keon. I think he's due to be released from prison in 2021 or so. Perhaps slightly earlier if he's been good while in there.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2013/12/04/keon_clark_former_raptors_forward_sentenced_to_eight_years_in_illinois_prison.html

[CoachD]

Oh, Keon. I think he's due to be released from prison in 2021 or so. Perhaps slightly earlier if he's been good while in there.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2013/12/04/keon_clark_former_raptors_forward_sentenced_to_eight_years_in_illinois_prison.html

Still smilin though!!

[rapcity10]

We all loved Amir but is this a joke?! He was nothing more than an energy player.

Saying he was nothing more than an energy player is the only joke here.

I don't think people understand how valuable this guy was too us when he was healthy and didn't have those recurring ankle injuries, and even when he did he still performed at a high level. His last year here with us wasn't that good, I'm not considering that part of his prime thought, first year we made it back to the playoffs against the Nets, and years before. The man was looked at in some analytical and advanced stats departments as one of the top Pf's in the game. He was really really good, calling him nothing more than an energy player is BS. Bismarck Biyombo is nothing more than an energy player.

[[SJJ]]

Love Amir but it's Ibaka 10 times out of 10 no? In what way is Amir better? Fan engagement?

[LBJKB24MJ23]

oh gosh. Amir Johnson overrated by Toronto fans again. he's a solid, energy player. nothing more, nothing much - developed a serviceable 3 point shot near his tenure but he is what he is. Ibaka Easily

3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012–2014)
2× NBA blocks leader (2012, 2013)

edit - didn't see "current Serge" but he's much better offensively than Amir could ever dream of. Still easily Ibaka.

If both were free agents right now (prime Amir vs current Ibaka) 11 out of 10 times Ibaka.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Love Amir but it's Ibaka 10 times out of 10 no? In what way is Amir better? Fan engagement?

haha i know, right?

[Double Helix]

I used to think Amir's RAPM data, which has been elite for years, may have been inflated just by playing beside so many other crap defenders on the Raptors and that perhaps his impact was felt more noticeably as a result of that than true defensive excellence but it's carried over in Boston for years.

He really does seem to find ways to help his team on every possession when he's out there. Been that way for years. He's a glue guy. Right place. Right time. Even with bum ankles he seems to help considerably.

But I'm intrigued to see how Lowry, Derozan and Ibaka can grow together. He us such a great 3 point shooter for a 4/5 and his defensive impact can be better if we use him in ways where he's best. Rebounding seems to be down in most stretch bigs not named Kevin Love. He rebounds as well as Horford and Marc Gasol do for example.

[Rapcity_11]

There's only a handful of people's opinions on here that I rate and this thread is a good example why. Even if serge is not as good as he was he's still better than Amir ever was. Amir could hardly handle the ball without turning it over. Defensively amir was better than serge but that's about it. The moment you see Amir getting ready to set a screen you knew it was a turnover waiting to happen. I've never seen a player in this league pick up more fouls than Amir on setting screens. Some of you guys have smoked yourselves silly. Then again there's people on here that don't like serge because he's the reason JV's minutes got cut even more and he'll be part of the reason JV will be gone by trade deadline.

Bro, that's half the game. Lol

Amir is better in almost every defensive stat. "Smoked yourselves silly", numbers don't lie. Read it and weep.

LOL, yes exactly. That quote was amazing. Clowning other people then coming out with the gem of “defensively, but that’s about it”.

Also, Amir could barely handle the ball without turning it over? Can Ibaka even dribble? We know he can barely pass.

Amir picked up a bunch of offensive fouls, but he was still a great screener. One of the best screen flippers in the league.

[Basketball_Jones]

Prime Ibaka over both. Prime Amir had star potential though, if we upped his usage and he was healthy he could have put up big numbers consistently, along with all of the little things he does.

[YogurtProducer]

While prime Amir's defense is clearly being underrated on here by many, his overall game is being overrated on here by the rest.

Consider this...we became a significantly better team the season after Amir moved on. The only additions of significance we made that year were Cory and Biz. So clearly he wasn't the game changer his stats made him look to be. He was a fantastic glue guy, but we were a bad team for years with him, so you can't say he was a star player who elevated his team all that much just because of advanced stats.

With Ibaka 3 pt shot being so key at the PF position in this era of basketball, you have to give him the edge. The effectiveness of both guys defense and intangibles might be comparable, but there's no way to justify killing a team's spacing for whatever difference there is with the rest of each guy's game.

We got significantly better probably because we also got rid of Vasquez and Williams & replaced them with Joseph and Powell. If im not mistaken, Lowry also completely transformed his body and came back a different player.