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Nurse is better on defense than we think

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Re: Nurse is better on defense than we think 

Post#21 » by pkiskool » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:20 pm

We honestly have one good mobile wing defender in OG and one o.k. weak side help defender in Bebe, and that's about it.
Delon is not bad I guess.
JV's defence is all size based, he is not a natural defender with quickness and instincts.
Demar is lazy af as duffman mentioned, and Lowry gambles too much AND he is too short to do anything.
I won't even get to the rest of the team.
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Re: Nurse is better on defense than we think 

Post#22 » by StopitLeo » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:25 pm

Are people just going to ignore that we objectively had a very good defense last season?

Defensive Rating = 5th best
Blocks = 2nd best
Opponent eFG%s = 3rd best

Of course, if you just check the overall numbers in the playoffs it doesn't look good. The 18 and 34 point losses to the Cavs are a big reason for that (there is no denying that they shot insanely well). The Cavs had an eFG% of 66% in those two blowout games, their only games with an eFG% over 60% in the playoffs. In the Cavs 12 playoff wins, however, we actually held them to the lowest eFG% in one game (5th in the other). If anything we can say that our defense against them was inconsistent.

If we look at the Wizards series our defensive rating was much more in line with what we did in the regular season and would have been middle of the pack in the playoffs Even going back two more seasons Cleveland just has our number (matchups, mental, whatever). Our DRtg against the Cavs has been awful but it has been good against the Bucks last year and both the Bucks and Heat the year before.

Cavs games aside, it's not just luck that we defended well even with the defensive limitations of several players on the roster. Our schemes worked well for our personnel. We really focussed on preventing 3s, especially from the corner. We gave up mid-range shots to make sure we could get to 3 point shooters as well as contest on the inside (we had the 2nd best opponent FG% inside 5 feet and the best from 5-9 feet).

Anyway, all of this is to say that while we certainly have players who are weak defensively, our collective team defense is pretty good.
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Re: Nurse is better on defense than we think 

Post#23 » by sca » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:28 pm

pkiskool wrote:We honestly have one good mobile wing defender in OG and one o.k. weak side help defender in Bebe, and that's about it.
Delon is not bad I guess.
JV's defence is all size based, he is not a natural defender with quickness and instincts.
Demar is lazy af as duffman mentioned, and Lowry gambles too much AND he is too short to do anything.
I won't even get to the rest of the team.

Oh please stop right there. Delon, Jakob and Siakam are also very good defenders. Ibaka, even though I hate the way he plays, is a great help defender. VanVleet is an incredibly smart defender as well.

You don’t get the 5th best DRTG in the regular season by playing mediocre defenders. All of our guys have their weaknesses that can be exploited by a smart game plan (maybe except for OG, who is very raw), and that’s what hurts us the most in the play-offs.

Anyway here are my ratings

player/ perimeter / off ball / help /post
valanciunas / D+ / F / B- / A-
ibaka C+ / C / A- / B-
anunoby A / B+ / B- / B-
derozan C+ / D- / C- / D+
lowry B+ / C+ / A- / C
poeltl D+ / D / A- / B-
siakam B / B / B+ / C+
miles C+ / B- / C / D-
wright B+ / B+ / B / D
vanvleet B / A- / B+ / D+
powell B+ / C+ / C+ / C-
nogueira D+ / D- / A / C+
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Re: Nurse is better on defense than we think 

Post#24 » by Psubs » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:38 pm

pkiskool wrote:We honestly have one good mobile wing defender in OG and one o.k. weak side help defender in Bebe, and that's about it.
Delon is not bad I guess.
JV's defence is all size based, he is not a natural defender with quickness and instincts.
Demar is lazy af as duffman mentioned, and Lowry gambles too much AND he is too short to do anything.
I won't even get to the rest of the team.


Delon and FVV seem to be above average defenders and same on offense. Siakam seems to be good too.
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Re: Nurse is better on defense than we think 

Post#25 » by Senbonzakura » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:26 am

Hansari wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote:
StopitLeo wrote:
Until this past season the offense fell off a cliff in the playoffs. Now that we have something that can work in the regular season and playoffs. It doesn't have to be retooled but now that Nurse has full control he can implement it fully.


Defense is what really needs to be reworked imo. Demar needs a bigger role, he's a lockdown defender let him guard Lebron/Durant . Start Van Vleet as well, let him and Lowry stop all dribble penetration from opposing guards. Maybe start OG at the 4, Ibaka at the 5. Hoooo man I'm getting goosebumps!


In what world is DeMar DeRozan a lockdown defender? Have we been watching the same teams the past 9 years?


He's almost certainly being sarcastic. The "Hoooo man" (who the **** says that lol?) is a dead giveaway. Nobody can possibly be that excited about the "lockdown" defense of a Lowry-FVV-DeRozan trio.
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Re: Nurse is better on defense than we think 

Post#26 » by Senbonzakura » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:29 am

StopitLeo wrote:Are people just going to ignore that we objectively had a very good defense last season?

Defensive Rating = 5th best
Blocks = 2nd best
Opponent eFG%s = 3rd best

Of course, if you just check the overall numbers in the playoffs it doesn't look good. The 18 and 34 point losses to the Cavs are a big reason for that (there is no denying that they shot insanely well). The Cavs had an eFG% of 66% in those two blowout games, their only games with an eFG% over 60% in the playoffs. In the Cavs 12 playoff wins, however, we actually held them to the lowest eFG% in one game (5th in the other). If anything we can say that our defense against them was inconsistent.

If we look at the Wizards series our defensive rating was much more in line with what we did in the regular season and would have been middle of the pack in the playoffs Even going back two more seasons Cleveland just has our number (matchups, mental, whatever). Our DRtg against the Cavs has been awful but it has been good against the Bucks last year and both the Bucks and Heat the year before.

Cavs games aside, it's not just luck that we defended well even with the defensive limitations of several players on the roster. Our schemes worked well for our personnel. We really focussed on preventing 3s, especially from the corner. We gave up mid-range shots to make sure we could get to 3 point shooters as well as contest on the inside (we had the 2nd best opponent FG% inside 5 feet and the best from 5-9 feet).

Anyway, all of this is to say that while we certainly have players who are weak defensively, our collective team defense is pretty good.


You can bull and lie all you want but here's the reality.

Read on Twitter


2nd worst defense in the league against top 10 offenses. This is why our defense was piss poor in the playoffs. Yeah, we're flat track bullies and can shut down mediocre or bad offensive teams, but when it comes to the best offenses who can really expose your weaknesses and isolate defensive liabilities, we were atrocious.

This team doesn't have the personnel to shut down the best offensive teams. Our starting lineup has 3 defensive liabilities, one average defender and one good but inexperienced defender. Not sure how the **** you think that makes a great defensive team, but hey keep drinking the MLSE/Masai Kool-Aid right up until we get swept by Boston in the 2nd round.
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Re: Nurse is better on defense than we think 

Post#27 » by Basketball_Jones » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:39 am

Top 5 defense...and y’all talking about you upset...push...
2019 Eastern Conference All Stars

Derozan
Lowry
Ibaka
Valanciunas
Van Vleet
Delon Wright
Lebron
Embiid

There are only 2 teams in the league that rank in the top 6 in offensive and defensive efficiency: the Golden State Warriors and the Toronto Raptors.
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Re: Nurse is better on defense than we think 

Post#28 » by Veggamattic » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:45 am

Senbonzakura wrote:
Hansari wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote:
Defense is what really needs to be reworked imo. Demar needs a bigger role, he's a lockdown defender let him guard Lebron/Durant . Start Van Vleet as well, let him and Lowry stop all dribble penetration from opposing guards. Maybe start OG at the 4, Ibaka at the 5. Hoooo man I'm getting goosebumps!


In what world is DeMar DeRozan a lockdown defender? Have we been watching the same teams the past 9 years?


He's almost certainly being sarcastic. The "Hoooo man" (who the **** says that lol?) is a dead giveaway. Nobody can possibly be that excited about the "lockdown" defense of a Lowry-FVV-DeRozan trio.


Don't be too certain...I've read some of his other work.
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Re: Nurse is better on defense than we think 

Post#29 » by Dr Positivity » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:51 am

Sounds good
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Re: Nurse is better on defense than we think 

Post#30 » by StopitLeo » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:06 pm

Senbonzakura wrote:[
You can bull and lie all you want but here's the reality.

Read on Twitter


2nd worst defense in the league against top 10 offenses. This is why our defense was piss poor in the playoffs. Yeah, we're flat track bullies and can shut down mediocre or bad offensive teams, but when it comes to the best offenses who can really expose your weaknesses and isolate defensive liabilities, we were atrocious.

This team doesn't have the personnel to shut down the best offensive teams. Our starting lineup has 3 defensive liabilities, one average defender and one good but inexperienced defender. Not sure how the **** you think that makes a great defensive team, but hey keep drinking the MLSE/Masai Kool-Aid right up until we get swept by Boston in the 2nd round.


You can't rank defensive rating in a meaningful way when you are comparing to a subset of teams. If you are playing against a top 10 offense you have to allocate more resources to scoring in order to keep up with the other team; this would certainly impact defense.

I went through the stats and looked at every team's average Net Rating against the teams in the top 10 for offensive rating. Toronto ranked 6th in the league. That's pretty good especially when you consider that there were only 6 teams in the league with a positive net rating against the top 10 offenses. The best Net Ratings in order were GSW, HOU, OKC, MIN, PHI, and TOR.

Those results are consistent with the top overall season Net Rating adjusted for strength of opponent. The ranking differs but those are the top teams, with the exception of Minnesota.
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Re: Nurse is better on defense than we think 

Post#31 » by mrdressup » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:32 pm

What? Is he going to be playing too? Didn't see that coming. I also fail to see how he's going to make JV, DD and Ibaka play defense together. That actually has to happen on the court. I have next to zero hope he can achieve much better than what we have seen. Has he been known to do successful brain transplants?

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