SOTD: Pascal is amazing

[Alfred]

I really don't know how much I want Siakam here should Kawhi leave.

He'll get paid and with no Kawhi he wont be looked at as the same type of asset that he is now.

With no Kawhi and a paid Siakam this might be a Heat situation post Lebron.

The Heat could offer their entire roster for Siakam and I wouldn’t take it.

It's not about the Heats roster. It's the Raptors ceiling as a number 1 option should Kawhi leave.

I really hope that the Raptors don't end in a Heat situation where if your superstar leaves the Raptors spend their cap on good players but their ceiling is limited.

In other words, another treadmill.

If it’s not about the Heat’s roster, then why are you comparing the situations? Their roster is why they’re a treadmill team.

[d00lttle]

People look at his age and don't take into account he's been playing organized bball for fewer years than guys younger than him, like Simmons and Tatum. I also think he has more upside on his body. Simmons and Tatum are already at their fully developed bodies, while Siakim could very well gain 15 more pounds and maintain his athleticism.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Pour vous.

Offense.

Spoiler:

Defense.

Spoiler:

Did you make this or is there a site with this? Great stuff either way.

Its straight from Synergy. Edit: Youre RaptorsFTW, or something like that right??

[vini_vidi_vici]

Pour vous.

Offense.

Spoiler:

Defense.

Spoiler:

Very impressive,

Just wondering, do you have the numbers for OG as well? Especially interested in his defensive numbers

Offense.

Spoiler:

Defense.

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If you guys ever want to see something, dont ever hesitate to ask and/or PM me. I usually pretty good about getting back to people.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Kinda crazy to think about, but Siakam was involved in 269 Possessions + ASTs this yr for the Raps. The leagues worst transition team is SAS, and they have 678 possessions. Its so nice to see us leveraging all this speed, and ball handling, instead of coming back to the ball like we used to do alot over the yrs.

3 guys in the top 25 in terms of Poss + ASTs (edit: were not talking efficiency, just volume).

[North_of_Border]

If Kwahi leaves. I salary dump Lowry and Ibaka. And build around Siakam and OG... plus Gasol as the veteran leader for the short term if he wants to stay. That team can still compete.

I am confident OG will make a huge jump in the next couple of years. I think he has HUGE potential to be a star alongside Siakam.

[Johnny Bball]

Pour vous.

Offense.

Spoiler:

Defense.

Spoiler:

Did you make this or is there a site with this? Great stuff either way.

Its straight from Synergy. Edit: Youre RaptorsFTW, or something like that right??

FTL

What is PP(P+A)? Points per possession +Assists ...or shot + assists?

[BoBBo!]

I was listening to a recent version of the NBA show podcast on the Ringer and Kevin O'Conner said he talked to a "a guy in the league" who liked but didn't love Pascal because he thought too much of his game is capitalizing on trying harder than other guys in the regular season. That a lot of his game will be taken away when everyone is going all out in the playoffs. Seems like the perspective of a loser (trump voice), discounting a guy because he tries hard but at the same time he still needs to show this improvement in the playoffs to take the next step.

That’s a misguided narrative IMO.

The reg season game which most closely resembled a playoff battle was versus MIL for the tiebreaker.

Watch on YouTube

TOR was getting starched by 24 and Pascal singlehandedly brought the Raptors back to down 6 early in the 4th. He also got Giannis in foul trouble with his quickness. Unfortunately it was then that Siakam took a breather & Kyle and Kawhi checked back in and laid an egg.

Shooters go hot and cold in the playoffs. Siakam’s overall game is low variance and will translate very well. He’s not a #1 option but he’s a damn good 2nd or 3rd.

[Zeno]

He’s faster and more athletic than pretty much anyone, let alone guys his size.

Yeah no doubt but playoffs are a different animal entirely. A lot of people forget that one of the reasons why OKC might have been willing to trade Harden was how awful he was in the finals for OKC. There was suddenly some doubt whether he should be maxed, especially in OKC which would have to go deep into the tax to keep him and Ibaka. In the end they opted for Ibaka which was obviously a mistake. But if teams in the playoffs decide to take Siakam out of his game as a primary focus of their game plan as the Cavs did with Harden in that series, I think it might be hard for him.

You could be right, but these are basically points of we need to see it before we know for sure.

He's going to be at worst an elite defensive player, who can do a bit of everything on O, but I don't like that he's just a try hard player, it's a cop out to me. He has an elite first step and can get to the basket so easily with one of the softest touches around the league.

He's getting better and better every month and without Kawhi has not shied away from the spotlight, in fact he's looked better.

If he can get that in between game, pull ups, and shoot closer to 40% from distance, it will open up the passing lanes more because of the doubles and people cheating over to close out.

As I said, it comes out as a bit of a take of someone with a loser mindset. Effort is a skill and he's got plenty of other skills regardless. But it can't be completely discounted either because as you say we need to see it before we know for sure.

Whether he struggles this playoffs or not, Pascal is someone you want to invest in because he is certain to continue to work hard to improve.

[kirkwood]

Everyone here should disregard all stats that are over a period of an entire season. If you disect games against only contenders you will see the true value and stats of those players.

Leonard is the only player on our team that has game that does not drop off against the elite. I love pascal but he is not there yet when it comes to being a force against the best of the best, infact he becomes much like the Lowry and Derozans of the world.

I predict he will rise above the rest, but right now he is a helter skelter type player... Great in the flow of things against weak competition and out of control against the elite when the pressure is on.

[Zeno]

He’s faster and more athletic than pretty much anyone, let alone guys his size.

Yeah no doubt but playoffs are a different animal entirely. A lot of people forget that one of the reasons why OKC might have been willing to trade Harden was how awful he was in the finals for OKC. There was suddenly some doubt whether he should be maxed, especially in OKC which would have to go deep into the tax to keep him and Ibaka. In the end they opted for Ibaka which was obviously a mistake. But if teams in the playoffs decide to take Siakam out of his game as a primary focus of their game plan as the Cavs did with Harden in that series, I think it might be hard for him.

If teams are going to take Siakam out of his game as a primary focus of their game plan, Leonard is going to crush them.

A team might easily feel that with Siakam taken out of the game, Lowry perhaps taking himself out with cold playoff shooting, they can afford to let Kawhi crush them and still win. I'm not saying that's what teams will do but it's a possible strategy they'll try.

[Johnny Bball]

Yeah no doubt but playoffs are a different animal entirely. A lot of people forget that one of the reasons why OKC might have been willing to trade Harden was how awful he was in the finals for OKC. There was suddenly some doubt whether he should be maxed, especially in OKC which would have to go deep into the tax to keep him and Ibaka. In the end they opted for Ibaka which was obviously a mistake. But if teams in the playoffs decide to take Siakam out of his game as a primary focus of their game plan as the Cavs did with Harden in that series, I think it might be hard for him.

You could be right, but these are basically points of we need to see it before we know for sure.

He's going to be at worst an elite defensive player, who can do a bit of everything on O, but I don't like that he's just a try hard player, it's a cop out to me. He has an elite first step and can get to the basket so easily with one of the softest touches around the league.

He's getting better and better every month and without Kawhi has not shied away from the spotlight, in fact he's looked better.

If he can get that in between game, pull ups, and shoot closer to 40% from distance, it will open up the passing lanes more because of the doubles and people cheating over to close out.

As I said, it comes out as a bit of a take of someone with a loser mindset. Effort is a skill and he's got plenty of other skills regardless. But it can't be completely discounted either because as you say we need to see it before we know for sure.

Whether he struggles this playoffs or not, Pascal is someone you want to invest in because he is certain to continue to work hard to improve.

You can't fake a motor. I dunno about any of that where he's at top speed and others will catch up... I just don't see that kind of motor too often in the playoffs either.

[Vampirate]

The Heat could offer their entire roster for Siakam and I wouldn’t take it.

It's not about the Heats roster. It's the Raptors ceiling as a number 1 option should Kawhi leave.

I really hope that the Raptors don't end in a Heat situation where if your superstar leaves the Raptors spend their cap on good players but their ceiling is limited.

In other words, another treadmill.

If it’s not about the Heat’s roster, then why are you comparing the situations? Their roster is why they’re a treadmill team.

It's about the Raptors and where they would stand if Kawhi leaves. If we build around Siakam and the Rest how good is that moving forwards?

How far off would we be from the current Heat with Siakam making 25 million a year. I am basically asking how far can Siakam take us as the main piece.

[changes]

He's a superstar. Clowns here need to put some respect on his name.

[Steelo Green]

Pour vous.

Offense.

Spoiler:

Defense.

Spoiler:

Did you make this or is there a site with this? Great stuff either way.

Its straight from Synergy. Edit: Youre RaptorsFTW, or something like that right??

FTL, yes, decided to get the Raptors out of my name, didn't want to be confused with the other contingent

[Steelo Green]

Everyone here should disregard all stats that are over a period of an entire season. If you disect games against only contenders you will see the true value and stats of those players.

Leonard is the only player on our team that has game that does not drop off against the elite. I love pascal but he is not there yet when it comes to being a force against the best of the best, infact he becomes much like the Lowry and Derozans of the world.

I predict he will rise above the rest, but right now he is a helter skelter type player... Great in the flow of things against weak competition and out of control against the elite when the pressure is on.

What?

Against the Warriors, the first game he had 26 with 3 triples, Houston 22 and 12, Milwaukee 28 and 30...

I just quickly looked at a few games but there a plethora of examples against the best (I believe he had a really good night against Denver as well) where he was excellent.

[Basketball_Jones]

Everyone here should disregard all stats that are over a period of an entire season. If you disect games against only contenders you will see the true value and stats of those players.

Leonard is the only player on our team that has game that does not drop off against the elite. I love pascal but he is not there yet when it comes to being a force against the best of the best, infact he becomes much like the Lowry and Derozans of the world.

I predict he will rise above the rest, but right now he is a helter skelter type player... Great in the flow of things against weak competition and out of control against the elite when the pressure is on.

He’s had good games against Milwaukee/golden state/Philly. I think Boston has him covered but otherwise he’s been good against everybody. He could shrink in the playoffs like your theory suggests, but so far I don’t see any reason to think so.

[gp2015]

I think the problem people have is trying to find a comparable player and him falling short of it. He's not Green, he's not Marion, he's not Kevin Garnett. He carves out a different niche. Hopefully one day people will be comparing young players to his unique skill set.

I said this in another thread, but the one thing he does so well at his size is finish at the rim at full speed. I've seen smaller players do it, but for a guy his size he's incredible at it. He finishes like a guard near the rim, and he's so quick he gets there so easily.

He reminds me of Odom.

[GRMIKE]

There are a few seemingly who believe that Pascal is a mediocre defender and he is poor on O/disappears so I did some digging, not to put noses in the air, but just get excited at how PS is, and even I myself am surprised.

Defensive Net Rating (for players who play 30+ minutes): 16th in the NBA

RPM: Third in NBA for forwards (behind AD and Giannis)

Defensive DG% differential (his opponent FG% versus their average: -6.4, FIRST in the NBA

WS/48: 7th in the NBA for forwards (adjusted for minutes played)

VORP (value over replacement player): 24th in the league, ahead of Embiid, Butler, Adams, Conley, Gasol

Clutch Stats (adjusted for minutes and games played): 9th in FG%, 16th in BPM, 6th in TS, for players who play 4 plus minutes of clutch time he is 6th in the league, the top 5 having 3 Warriors.

He is 25. He started playing basketball very late in life so his mileage means he probably will go longer than if he started playing younger, and even if that isn't the case, the best of him is in 2-3 years. We have a legitimate star. I was a skeptic with all the Draymond talk at the beginning of the year, but he's a legitimate DPOY candidate today, and his offense which is still very raw is somehow growing daily (20 points last month shooting 50%).

Best hit in the history of the Raptors draft by far.

you used to say lowry was better than guys like lillard. I'll wait until he has more than 1 season as a top option (in a conference where half the teams are tanking) before giving him props (g league doesn't count).

[pingpongrac]

Everyone here should disregard all stats that are over a period of an entire season. If you disect games against only contenders you will see the true value and stats of those players.

Leonard is the only player on our team that has game that does not drop off against the elite. I love pascal but he is not there yet when it comes to being a force against the best of the best, infact he becomes much like the Lowry and Derozans of the world.

I predict he will rise above the rest, but right now he is a helter skelter type player... Great in the flow of things against weak competition and out of control against the elite when the pressure is on.

Huh? Against top 10 teams, Siakam has generally elevated his game.

vs MIL: 24.3 PPG (64.5 FG%), 5.5 REB, 2.5 AST
vs GSW: 19.5 PPG (65.0 FG%), 2.5 REB, 2.0 AST
vs DEN: 14.0 PPG (70.0 FG%), 6.0 REB, 7.0 AST
vs IND: 15.0 PPG (44.1 FG%), 8.7 REB, 4.0 AST
vs BOS: 8.7 PPG (47.8 FG%), 6.0 REB, 4.3 AST
vs PHI: 15.8 PPG (51.9 FG%), 8.8 REB, 3.0 AST
vs POR: 10.0 PPG (37.5 FG%), 4.0 REB, 1.0 AST
vs HOU: 22.0 PPG (60.0 FG%), 12.0 REB, 3.0 AST

Some of his best games this season have come against the Bucks, Warriors and Rockets. He also had some huge games against the Sixers. Really, the only team that has "shut him down" so far is Boston, and two of those matchups came in the first few weeks of the season.