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Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract

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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#61 » by RaptorsNorth » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:48 am

Syd-TK3 wrote:Needs to be less than that honestly
and why would he take less than that at his age with 2 small kids when guys like norm were overpaid when their contract came up for renewal ? Come on now the guy deserves more than that because that’s his value! The guy is not some old aging vet like ibaka. The guy is just entering his prime as a player in this league. If he’s taking less at age 26 he’s doing us a favor and should be commended for that but to say his offer should be less is ridiculous. Without Fred going beast mode in the late stages of the playoff this team doesn’t win a championship period. It’s crazy how this fan base rates guys like Gasol that showed up for 1 season on defense but forget who was scoring the points while players like him and Green were a negative on offense and putting up countless zero point games In last seasons playoffs. You think we were going to win without players like Fred contributing on offense ? The moment fred had his kid he was playing at an allstar level in the playoffs last season and was arguable the 2nd option scorer on this team behind kawhi. People forget all the big shots this guy hit with stitches under his eyes and a chipped tooth Smh if Fred leaves for more money I can understand that fully and respect it because another teams obviously see’s his value and wanted to offer him more but to say his contract should be less is ridiculous!! Him excepting Anything under that is doing us a big favor. Fred deserves more than that but if he takes this at his age then he’s doing us a solid.

It’s crazy how this fan base can overate bench warmers and Fight down anybody that says guys like Hernandez are scrubs or overrate guys that hardly get on the floor like brissett or whatever his name is and Paul Watson but act like Fred is some kind meh player that hasn’t proven Himself to be one of our better players that contributed to a championships here. These are the same people that want to ignore gasol being irrelevant in the playoffs this season because he was a good defender in the playoffs last season. Give me a f...... break man. This fan base has zero loyalty but complain when superstars bolt out of this place.

You know the guy or girl that used to always call you to hang out when you and them were trying to find your feet in life and once they found their feet they stopped calling you because now they feel like they’re too good for you ? that’s some of the people that make up this fan base. When this team hits rock bottom again as taste of reality then some of you will look back and appreciate certain things and certain players contributions to us being to team in this league. Some Fans around here are really getting too big for their britches.

There’s a difference between Kawhi as your first option teammate and pascal as your first option teammate!

FOH and Pay the man and cut corners somewhere else.

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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#62 » by mickie » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:53 pm

I don't see Bobby and Masai signing Freddy with a $20M+ per year with the uncertainty of the next few years' cap space. That's a lil too much for me for an undersize PG who didn't have a great playoff run in his contract year.

On the other hand, i'd love Freddy to get paid so if he can get it with the Knicks then good for him.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#63 » by bluerap23 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:18 pm

kalel123 wrote:
Steelo Green wrote:
bluerap23 wrote:
Um Thomas didn’t walk away he was traded away for Kyrie Irving. Good basketball executives don’t let assets walk for nothing.

The comparison to IT is ridiculous for other reasons as well.

Who is talking about that, he wanted to be extended and they said no, and rightfully so.

IT was an MVP candidate.

Plenty of executives have let assets walk for nothing that aren’t worth it.

Fred at 20+ mil means you can trade him for negative assets, similar when we traded Demarre.

The cap going down and this deal would be horrible.


Dude, you are talking about that. You are the one who brought up Thomas when he wasn't even a viable example due to obvious reasons. The biggest one being Ainge didn't let him walk away for nothing; never mind the fact that Isiah Thomas was a damaged goods coming off career-altering injury. And you can't even admit you are wrong when you get fact checked. And you wonder why you are considered to be hatin' troll.

The least you can do when talking about "plenty" of execs letting assets walk away for nothing is to prove your point with some actual examples especially when your one shining example was proven to be wrong.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#64 » by Zeno » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:48 pm

mickie wrote:I don't see Bobby and Masai signing Freddy with a $20M+ per year with the uncertainty of the next few years' cap space. That's a lil too much for me for an undersize PG who didn't have a great playoff run in his contract year.

On the other hand, i'd love Freddy to get paid so if he can get it with the Knicks then good for him.

The cap is being negotiated for next year and the year after likely right now. It will obviously effect what is available to players in contracts. It is expected that it will remain flat or even be artificially set to match previous projections.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#65 » by BBallG » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:54 pm

I don't care how much we pay him, but I am tired of having the smallest backcourt in the league so at least get him to be a 6th man until Lowry retires. Maybe when he gets paid he will be less inclined to play hero ball and will lead the bench like he did in the past.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#66 » by Oakvillehoops » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:03 pm

If we don’t sign FVV, Giannis won’t come lol. His turning point with the bucks will be that they let Brogdon Walk. He will look at this as the same
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#67 » by dacrusha » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:15 pm

BBallG wrote:I don't care how much we pay him, but I am tired of having the smallest backcourt in the league so at least get him to be a 6th man until Lowry retires. Maybe when he gets paid he will be less inclined to play hero ball and will lead the bench like he did in the past.


That smallest backcourt in the league helped us win a championship.

Also one of the best defensive backcourt duos in the entire NBA.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#68 » by nobay » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:35 pm

Not worth the Brogdon deal. His size is a huge flaw and was exposed in the PO this year. And he's NOT a PG. I didn't see him successfully running the team this season. His best asset is his shooting and he was good at disruption on D during the RS. Most I'd pay him is 75/4 that's fair value. I wouldn't be surprised if Masai overpays as he's loyal to players.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#69 » by sidsid » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:52 pm

kalel123 wrote:Brogdan-level contract for Van Vleet IMO is still manageable. You always want to avoid losing talent for nothing, especially for a team like Raptors that always have hard time attracting free agents. As long as the contract is reasonably tradeable, I think you have to go for it.


A Brogdon level contract is in the danger zone where you go from manageable asset to immovable anchor.

The bigger the contacts are the harder it is to match salaries in a move, and if the players don't live up to them, you're likely stuck with it.

I'd compare this on a lower scale to the Rashard Lewis contract when he signed with the Magic. Solid player, but made more money than he was worth and prevented the Magic from making the team better around Howard.

And I mentioned this in another thread, but if this was hockey arbitration, the Raptors would point out that Brogdon was a 50-40-90 player with size, which Fred isn't even close to on 2pts (correlation/causation link there with size) and rationalize pinning his salary to 18 mil or lower range because of it. The real comp FVV's agent would point to is Scary Terry's overpayed contract as setting the new market for guards.

My conclusion always gets back to the fact that we are planning for a Giannis offseason and you don't gamble that future away just so you can retain and overpay role players. Not worth it.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#70 » by Psubs » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:33 pm

As long as he doubles his salary I think we can retain him. 19-17-19-21 Player option 4th so he can sign a potentially larger contract at age 28. He's going to win and going to start and help to get Giannis here by earning $17 million for 2021/2022. Maybe he takes a 20-18-20 deal with 3rd year player option? If he becomes an allstar taking over for Lowry he can command over $20 million.

He did only shoot 41% overall so not good scoring inside. Also pointing out that Brogdon's number's dropped going to a team where he had a larger role.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#71 » by Basketball_Jones » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:46 pm

How’s Brogdons shooting nowadays? Yeah, Fred is around the same caliber of player. A bit better defensively despite being smaller and a bit worse offensively.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#72 » by dagger » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:00 pm

ballislife89 wrote:Yikes, a little rich for me. But granted the raptors record attracting free agents, this is probably the best we can get lol.



Right now, Masai would want to be able to present the Raptors as contenders to the summer/2021 freewheeled agents. If they lose too much talent this offseason, they might have a mountain of cap space, but it might be hard to get an upper level FA with lots of options to be part of mid-level team with an aging PG to boot. Also, Fred at that price is probably trade-able for value if things go south or if someone else is a better PG option through trade or free agency.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#73 » by Psubs » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:07 pm

Basketball_Jones wrote:How’s Brogdons shooting nowadays? Yeah, Fred is around the same caliber of player. A bit better defensively despite being smaller and a bit worse offensively.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brogdma01.html

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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#74 » by Skeezo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:11 pm

It really all depends on how the cap shakes out and what the new league projections are over the next several years... Still, 4yrs/85m seems too rich for my blood... I'd give FVV a 4-year offer at 18m per year with the fourth year Player option as an out, if he is exceeding his contract or league revenues bounce back. I honestly don't think FVV walks away from a winning organization that developed and gave him an opportunity for a few million more per year, but I could be wrong. :dontknow:
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#75 » by Syd-TK3 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:15 pm

RaptorsNorth wrote:
Syd-TK3 wrote:Needs to be less than that honestly
and why would he take less than that at his age with 2 small kids when guys like norm were overpaid when their contract came up for renewal ? Come on now the guy deserves more than that because that’s his value! The guy is not some old aging vet like ibaka. The guy is just entering his prime as a player in this league. If he’s taking less at age 26 he’s doing us a favor and should be commended for that but to say his offer should be less is ridiculous. Without Fred going beast mode in the late stages of the playoff this team doesn’t win a championship period. It’s crazy how this fan base rates guys like Gasol that showed up for 1 season on defense but forget who was scoring the points while players like him and Green were a negative on offense and putting up countless zero point games In last seasons playoffs. You think we were going to win without players like Fred contributing on offense ? The moment fred had his kid he was playing at an allstar level in the playoffs last season and was arguable the 2nd option scorer on this team behind kawhi. People forget all the big shots this guy hit with stitches under his eyes and a chipped tooth Smh if Fred leaves for more money I can understand that fully and respect it because another teams obviously see’s his value and wanted to offer him more but to say his contract should be less is ridiculous!! Him excepting Anything under that is doing us a big favor. Fred deserves more than that but if he takes this at his age then he’s doing us a solid.

It’s crazy how this fan base can overate bench warmers and Fight down anybody that says guys like Hernandez are scrubs or overrate guys that hardly get on the floor like brissett or whatever his name is and Paul Watson but act like Fred is some kind meh player that hasn’t proven Himself to be one of our better players that contributed to a championships here. These are the same people that want to ignore gasol being irrelevant in the playoffs this season because he was a good defender in the playoffs last season. Give me a f...... break man. This fan base has zero loyalty but complain when superstars bolt out of this place.

You know the guy or girl that used to always call you to hang out when you and them were trying to find your feet in life and once they found their feet they stopped calling you because now they feel like they’re too good for you ? that’s some of the people that make up this fan base. When this team hits rock bottom again as taste of reality then some of you will look back and appreciate certain things and certain players contributions to us being to team in this league. Some Fans around here are really getting too big for their britches.

There’s a difference between Kawhi as your first option teammate and pascal as your first option teammate!

FOH and Pay the man and cut corners somewhere else.


No one is saying don't pay him that. I'm just saying ideally you wanna pay him less, if that's his number then you gotta pay it you don't just lose an asset for nothing. Maybe just a couple millions less and you can feel better, he atleast gonna double his salary either way.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#76 » by tecumseh18 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:21 pm

AkelaLoneWolf wrote:
OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Brinbe wrote:masai/bobby and co got some huge decisions to make very shortly.

personally, i'd let him go and go with the young guys.

i really like fred, but there's better uses for that 20+ mill over the next four years.


Just remember you are not paying him Brogdan money because of what he brings as a two guard. You are paying him to be Lowry's successor at point guard. Masai will pay him 21.5 in a heartbeat.

except he isn't. he's best playing off the ball.


Fred was great this regular season when Kyle was out, and in the bubble win against the Heat. Raptors won some big games with him on the ball. His bad game was the last half the Clippers game at Staples, but that was on a B2B. Some of you seem to forget that we finished second overall despite significant injuries. Masai is not letting young guys walk for nothing.

Kyle's aging, so signing Fred for a Brogdon deal is a no brainer. There will be an 8% dip in 2021 to preserve the max contract cap space. Over the four years, it will be something like 21, 19, 21, 23 mill per year.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#77 » by Basketball_Jones » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:25 pm

Fred has always played pretty well when Kyle was out. Certainly we could use another creator (Siakam ain’t it) come playoff time though.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#78 » by NotMyKawhi » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:32 pm

I think the lakers are a good sign and trade destination
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#79 » by AkelaLoneWolf » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:40 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
AkelaLoneWolf wrote:
OAKLEY_2 wrote:
Just remember you are not paying him Brogdan money because of what he brings as a two guard. You are paying him to be Lowry's successor at point guard. Masai will pay him 21.5 in a heartbeat.

except he isn't. he's best playing off the ball.


Fred was great this regular season when Kyle was out, and in the bubble win against the Heat. Raptors won some big games with him on the ball. His bad game was the last half the Clippers game at Staples, but that was on a B2B. Some of you seem to forget that we finished second overall despite significant injuries. Masai is not letting young guys walk for nothing.

Kyle's aging, so signing Fred for a Brogdon deal is a no brainer. There will be an 8% dip in 2021 to preserve the max contract cap space. Over the four years, it will be something like 21, 19, 21, 23 mill per year.

do we know what the cap number will be. I think FA starts tonight, correct?
also no one's advocating for Fred to walk; just to be signed to a reasonable contract esp in these lean times.
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Re: Raptors favorites to re-sign FVV, expected to receive a Brogdon contract 

Post#80 » by pr0gr4m » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:59 pm

AkelaLoneWolf wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
AkelaLoneWolf wrote:except he isn't. he's best playing off the ball.


Fred was great this regular season when Kyle was out, and in the bubble win against the Heat. Raptors won some big games with him on the ball. His bad game was the last half the Clippers game at Staples, but that was on a B2B. Some of you seem to forget that we finished second overall despite significant injuries. Masai is not letting young guys walk for nothing.

Kyle's aging, so signing Fred for a Brogdon deal is a no brainer. There will be an 8% dip in 2021 to preserve the max contract cap space. Over the four years, it will be something like 21, 19, 21, 23 mill per year.

do we know what the cap number will be. I think FA starts tonight, correct?
also no one's advocating for Fred to walk; just to be signed to a reasonable contract esp in these lean times.

The only reason FVV is good is because he plays next to Lowry. Lowry helped CoJo and DeMar get a big contracts as well.

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