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ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets

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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#101 » by Tommy Gun » Sat Jul 3, 2010 2:40 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Tommy Gun wrote:Scola/Bargs would be the worst rebounding and defending frontcourt in the league. Why the hell would we want that 30 year old role player?


Scola's rebounding rate isn't far off of Bosh's. I don't know what led you to come to this conclusion.


His rebounding and D are both OK taken in isolation, not good enough besides Bargs though
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Bargs will be an all-star while Bosh averages 10/6 in Miami
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#102 » by blueseeka » Sat Jul 3, 2010 2:46 pm

From Doug "I never have any real news" Smith http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/
A lot of sitting around Friday working the phones and gauging the wind, I’m told. Getting ready for whatever happens to happen and prepared to pounce immediately.

I will tell you this, though.

I imagine the news that Amare Stoudemire is leaning to New York (and I caution you, it’s not done until it’s done and these are “sourced” reports) had to be greeted with smiles at 20 Bay.

That would take the Houston Rockets out of the bidding for Stoudemire, allow them to go after Bosh even harder and if there’s a sign-and-trade already negotiated that includes Scola, Battier, maybe Trevor Ariza or another player or a pick, I think that’s about as good as it’ll get for the Raptors.

Now, I don’t know for 100 per cent certain that that’s the actual offer that’s on the table, it sure sounds good at this end.


I really hope they get more then that. Seems like a weak package
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#103 » by coldfish » Sat Jul 3, 2010 2:51 pm

blueseeka wrote:
rapsrealm wrote:I got this from clutchfans, but an interesting perspective
1. Bosh wants the full max, and preferably the full full max as in SnT 6-year deal. This may or may not have been enough of a priority for him to turn down the Miami deal as a result of having to sacrifice this component.

2. Chicago is trying hard to get Wade to sign straight up and Bosh to sign via SnT but Toronto is proving unwilling in this regard.

3. Bosh would prefer to be with Wade or Lebron as his top choice for future destinations. The Rockets are either a backup plan or a pawn being used for leverage and nothing else.

4. Everything's being held up by Lebron who can't make up his mind yet. But Wade is getting impatient and cannot rely on Miami being able to add other talent if it currently only has two players on rookie contracts on its roster, which is why the whole Chicago thing has come up so suddenly for him.

Up until now everything makes sense, is corroborated by stuff going on in the real world. Everything else in SAS' blog about Bosh trying to make SnT to Houston work, or about NY being a realistic backup for Wade (+ Stoudemire + Johnson) seems like pure conjecture at this point.

I could just as easily make up some logical conclusions like this:

5. At dinner Bosh and Wade talked about what Morey had told him, that three superstars and 9 minimums on a team would not lead to a title, and agreed that Miami was less likely and less prepared for a run than Chicago was. They both agreed to try to give it a shot to take turn their three-man summit into a two-man package to the best team that could support it. And Lebron didn't help either by being such a whiny little beeotch at their last summit meeting that did or did not happen. He can take his sob story for leaving the Cavaliers somewhere, anywhere else.

6. Chicago was deemed the team most prepared to win a title with the insertion of Bosh and Wade, and Henry Thomas was the guy driving this line of thinking from the beginning since he works in Chicago and is a closet Bulls fan though he can't tell his clients that. Bulls management jumped at the chance which they had just one day prior thought passed them by, and all sides were near an agreement until...

7. Toronto spit in their face and told them on no uncertain terms to screw themselves if Deng was their best offer for the SnT. Chicago reacted by hitting the phones hard, looking anywhere for someone that could take Deng off their hands the way Hinrich was moved. Hence that Portland rumor of Deng for Przybilla and Bayless. Chicago went to tell Toronto about the deal and got another flat out rejection since Przybilla and Bayless are even scrubbier than Deng (who isn't actually that scrubby but does make 12M per which would definitely harm a team trying to rebuild like the Raptors).

8. Chicago was left with no better options at the end of the night, and Bosh and Wade departed from the meeting with Henry Thomas and Bulls management without a commitment but a preliminary idea to start up negotiations again the next day with the Raptors and other teams to find a way to push through a SnT for Bosh.

9. Secretly after the meeting, the Bulls management decide to try to talk to Wade alone and let him know that Rose Wade Deng Gibson and Noah are still a stacked Eastern Conf team, and that by adding a non-max but still star-quality PF like Boozer or David Lee they could be just as much title contenders as any other. Hence the Lee rumors that have sprung up.

And that's where we are now. You have the entire story more or less, and you didn't need a faker like Stephen A Smith to fill in the gaps for you either. The Rockets are still #3 on Bosh's list behind Chicago and whichever team Lebron decides to go to. We have to hope that Chicago can't find any way to get Toronto to agree to the SnT, since everyone knows our offer is much better and that Toronto will be pushing Bosh to take the Houston deal. We also have to hope that Lebron doesn't sign somewhere that could put together a pretty good package to offer to Toronto in a SnT for Bosh. My current fear is New Jersey who could serve up Favors + expirings.


You would think that Bulls were prepared as it never seemed that the Raps would be interested in Deng with that contract. I love how Bosh is seems like the greedy one when i havent heard anything about a S&T mentioned for either Miami or or Cleveland. If all the above is true or close to the truth, it does seem like Chicago has no interest in giving up Noah. I would guess if it meant the difference between Bosh and Wade or the status quo, they would give up on Noah. Time will tell


Bulls fan here. Great read. Thanks for that. Some other notes:
- It has been reported that the Bulls can have Boozer if they want him.
- Bulls have been adamant about Noah being untouchable and the fact that the Bulls actually have a legit center is their #2 selling point (behind Rose) over Miami and NY. I'm pretty confident that there was never a chance that Noah was going to get traded.
- Kudos to the Raptors for sticking to their guns. It seems that Raptor fans were right that they did have leverage and would use it.
- Its odd, but it seems that NY and Miami are going around trying to convince max free agents to take less than the 5 year max. NY finally caved and gave it to Amare, but Miami may have blown a hole in their own foot with this tactic.
- Given all of that, I would be shocked at this point if Bosh went to Chicago. IMHO, it will be some combination of Lebron, Wade and Boozer with no sign and trades.

Good luck guys. I'm enjoying Miami and NY twisting in the wind. Hopefully it stays that way.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#104 » by anj » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:03 pm

blueseeka wrote:From Doug "I never have any real news" Smith http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/
A lot of sitting around Friday working the phones and gauging the wind, I’m told. Getting ready for whatever happens to happen and prepared to pounce immediately.

I will tell you this, though.

I imagine the news that Amare Stoudemire is leaning to New York (and I caution you, it’s not done until it’s done and these are “sourced” reports) had to be greeted with smiles at 20 Bay.

That would take the Houston Rockets out of the bidding for Stoudemire, allow them to go after Bosh even harder and if there’s a sign-and-trade already negotiated that includes Scola, Battier, maybe Trevor Ariza or another player or a pick, I think that’s about as good as it’ll get for the Raptors.

Now, I don’t know for 100 per cent certain that that’s the actual offer that’s on the table, it sure sounds good at this end.


I really hope they get more then that. Seems like a weak package


If that is the package, and that's a BIG 'if' since this is The Doug Smith, we would have to flip at least two of those players to other teams since Ariza doesn't even want to be here, Battier will likely want a buyout, and we're stacked at PF already (re: Scola).

There better be more than just "a pick" in there, too.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#105 » by ATLTimekeeper » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:07 pm

No way to Ariza. If we're balking at Deng, then Ariza should definitely not be a part of anything (unless there's a Hedo-Ariza swap).

Battier, Jeffries and the two New York picks should be what BC insists on. It's not great, but the picks could end up as something. And Bosh goes to the West.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#106 » by Kreamy » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:09 pm

If all we'd be getting back from Houston is Battier, Scola and a pick, I'll take the TPE thank you very much. Battier and Scola are both 30+. Expiring contracts, Knicks picks, Jordan Hill and their ability to maybe absorb Hedo in an Ariza swap as well is what makes the Rockets really appealing.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#107 » by wtfbosh » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:11 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:Battier, Jeffries and the two New York picks should be what BC insists on. It's not great, but the picks could end up as something. And Bosh goes to the West.


Agreed, that should be ideal. I don't know why people keep glamoring for Scola when we already have three natural PFs in Bargs, Amir and Ed. Scola did play centre last year (not to mention we already have 6 bigs on the roster), but he's really undersized still. If we're in rebuilding mode, the expirings and the likely high picks from NY (since it doesn't look like they'll land any of the premier free agents besides Amare) should come in handy.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#108 » by wtfbosh » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:12 pm

Kreamy wrote:If all we'd be getting back from Houston is Battier, Scola and a pick, I'll take the TPE thank you very much. Battier and Scola are both 30+. Expiring contracts, Knicks picks, Jordan Hill and their ability to maybe absorb Hedo in an Ariza swap as well is what makes the Rockets really appealing.


Scola's not an expiring, he's actually a RFA. If we wanted him here, we would have to sign him to a new deal and he'd probably ask for a lot considering what Gooden and Amir got.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#109 » by panthermark » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:20 pm

I only read the first few pages.....but...IF this is true (I doubt SAS), this is GREAT news for Chicago AND Toronto.

Houston is an excellent spot for Bosh (I love that city).

But....with Amare in NY adn Bosh in Houston.....Wade is pretty much GONE from Miami. Wade could team up with Boozer, while Bron could team up with Rose, Deng, Noan AND David Lee......or Wade could beat Bron to the punch and bring Boozer to Chicago.

Rose
Wade
Deng
Boozer
Noah

Or Wade and Bron team up in Chicago....


Why is Bosh being so greedy?
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#110 » by Fairview4Life » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:26 pm

panthermark wrote:Why is Bosh being so greedy?


Why shouldn't he be?
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#111 » by kush- » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:28 pm

Tommy Gun wrote:Scola/Bargs would be the worst rebounding and defending frontcourt in the league. Why the hell would we want that 30 year old role player?


scola is actually a very very good defender.. him and chuck hayes were the anchor to houston's defense. scola is also a very good rebounder and efficient scorer.

scola is basically a david lee with less touches and much better defense.

that being said, raptors are not going to be competitive, and should not be taking him back in a trade...
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#112 » by Tommy Gun » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:30 pm

kush- wrote:
Tommy Gun wrote:Scola/Bargs would be the worst rebounding and defending frontcourt in the league. Why the hell would we want that 30 year old role player?


scola is actually a very very good defender.. him and chuck hayes were the anchor to houston's defense. scola is also a very good rebounder and efficient scorer.

scola is basically a david lee with less touches and much better defense.

that being said, raptors are not going to be competitive, and should not be taking him back in a trade...


Not really. The Rockets D was better with him off the floor and Rockets fans certainly dont think he's much of a defender.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#113 » by D-Wins-RingsIMO » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:37 pm

Kreamy wrote:If all we'd be getting back from Houston is Battier, Scola and a pick, I'll take the TPE thank you very much. Battier and Scola are both 30+. Expiring contracts, Knicks picks, Jordan Hill and their ability to maybe absorb Hedo in an Ariza swap as well is what makes the Rockets really appealing.


Explain how we get a TPE back from a team that is over the cap?

I thought it was clear that we had to take back salary within 25%? No?

If we do need to match salary, the big question is:

Do we take back Scola on a sign and trade of his own ....... I'm not sure it's a sure "yes", especially if he's going to want say a 4 yr 40 mill contract.

But at the same time, I doubt Ariza is an option since he rejected us last summer. So what pieces do we get back? Is Jeffries expiring this year? Maybe Jeffries expiring junk + NY's pick + NY pick swap + Jordan Hill?

But then we already have a glut of PF's.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#114 » by Kreamy » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:44 pm

D-Wins-RingsIMO wrote:
Kreamy wrote:If all we'd be getting back from Houston is Battier, Scola and a pick, I'll take the TPE thank you very much. Battier and Scola are both 30+. Expiring contracts, Knicks picks, Jordan Hill and their ability to maybe absorb Hedo in an Ariza swap as well is what makes the Rockets really appealing.


Explain how we get a TPE back from a team that is over the cap?


I was talking about my preference for dealing Bosh to one of the teams under the cap if Battier and Scola was Houston's offer.

thought it was clear that we had to take back salary within 25%? No?

If we do need to match salary, the big question is:

Do we take back Scola on a sign and trade of his own ....... I'm not sure it's a sure "yes", especially if he's going to want say a 4 yr 40 mill contract.

But at the same time, I doubt Ariza is an option since he rejected us last summer. So what pieces do we get back? Is Jeffries expiring this year? Maybe Jeffries expiring junk + NY's pick + NY pick swap + Jordan Hill?

But then we already have a glut of PF's.


For me, the thing that's always been appealing about the Rockets is the Knicks picks and their ability to absorb Hedo with all their expiring contracts. Replacing Bosh with players on the wrong side of 30 would be stupid.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#115 » by D-Wins-RingsIMO » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:45 pm

kush- wrote:
Tommy Gun wrote:Scola/Bargs would be the worst rebounding and defending frontcourt in the league. Why the hell would we want that 30 year old role player?


scola is actually a very very good defender.. him and chuck hayes were the anchor to houston's defense. scola is also a very good rebounder and efficient scorer.

scola is basically a david lee with less touches and much better defense.

that being said, raptors are not going to be competitive, and should not be taking him back in a trade...


To say he's a "very very good defender" is completely false. If you said he's mediocre to average than I would say you're right, if you said he's slightly above average I'd have a quibble but wouldn't argue too much.

But to say very very good is just not true. His On/Off and adj. +/- stats suggest otherwise. So do the observations of Houston fans.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#116 » by LarsV8 » Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:57 pm

Scola is an average defender and elite rebounder.

He isnt quick or strong enough to defend most players but he hustles a ton so he rarely gives up easy baskets. He also never leaves the paint so its a problem when you have finese big men, pnr roll defense, etc.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#117 » by RomaniaLuvTR » Sat Jul 3, 2010 4:22 pm

to be honest i don`t know anymore where i want bosh to go..i want a good prospect,1or 2 1st round picks and at least a 10 mil TPE..
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#118 » by rashiv05 » Sat Jul 3, 2010 4:34 pm

get whoever from houston .. but please, no more euro's ... sheeeeez. scola is alright, but i hope we trade em somewhere if we do get em .... no more euros! ahhhhh!
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#119 » by ak06ma » Sat Jul 3, 2010 4:38 pm

If Bosh goes to Houston I just want both of the Knicks picks. I don't really care what else we get.
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Re: ESPN Radio: Bosh in negotiations with Rockets 

Post#120 » by panthermark » Sat Jul 3, 2010 5:04 pm

coldfish wrote:
Bulls fan here. Great read. Thanks for that. Some other notes:
- It has been reported that the Bulls can have Boozer if they want him.
- Bulls have been adamant about Noah being untouchable and the fact that the Bulls actually have a legit center is their #2 selling point (behind Rose) over Miami and NY. I'm pretty confident that there was never a chance that Noah was going to get traded.
- Kudos to the Raptors for sticking to their guns. It seems that Raptor fans were right that they did have leverage and would use it.
- Its odd, but it seems that NY and Miami are going around trying to convince max free agents to take less than the 5 year max. NY finally caved and gave it to Amare, but Miami may have blown a hole in their own foot with this tactic.
- Given all of that, I would be shocked at this point if Bosh went to Chicago. IMHO, it will be some combination of Lebron, Wade and Boozer with no sign and trades.

Good luck guys. I'm enjoying Miami and NY twisting in the wind. Hopefully it stays that way.


Agreed, that was a great read, and the Bulls are not giving up Noah.

I'm really starting to hope that Bosh will take the money and go to Houston. Which is just fine, Chicago will gladly accept Wade at SG and Lee at PF....unless Boozer and or Bron is willing to take a slight pay-cut.
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