Linas Kleiza - The Rising Star

[ontnut]

Linas Kleiza IS an average defender. There's nothing that supports that Kleiza is at least a big liability on the defensive end as you're suggesting.

Do you have any quotes that showed Linas was a poor defender in the 2008-2009 Playoffs thus resulting to him sitting on the bench? Because through 14 games of the '08-'09 post-season, Linas had a +/- of -6.8 per 100 possessions indicating he was no where near being a liability on defense.

30 seconds on Google is all you need. Here's a little snippet about Kleiza not getting PT in the playoffs because of his defense.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_1 ... source=pkg

And in the Nuggets pre-season previews for 2008-09, you can see analysis where it came down between Kleiza and JR Smith about who was actually willing to play more defense in order to get more playing time, clearly signalling that their defense had been a problem.

Look, Kleiza's offensive game is easily good enough to be an NBA starter at SF. His defense is the issue, and makes him a borderline starter. As a flawed player he would make a tremendous backup SF being able to provide a lot of scoring when needed off the bench, but going up against opposing starting SF's or sometimes PF's is going to be an issue.

If you want to look at it a certain way, he's sort of a Forward-version of Calderon: good offensively, bad defensively, and as a flawed player maybe better coming off the bench than starting. He's tougher though, and there is still some hope he can improve defensively.

After Linas Kleiza didn't play in Denver's final game of the first round, Nuggets coach George Karl suggested that Kleiza would play more in the Dallas series because of his ability to run the floor and knock down the 3-pointer. But after playing only seven scoreless minutes in the first game, he played just six Tuesday, scoring four points, missing two 3-point attempts.

Entering Game 2, Karl said Kleiza hadn't played much because of "just my feel of the game."

It's noted that Denver's "other" small forward, Carmelo Anthony, played 42 minutes Tuesday. And Kleiza has struggled defensively at times this season and has been overmatched, notably when Dirk Nowitzki pushed him down in the low post.

It's not really that strong a damning of Kleiza's defense imo. Karl didn't play him much at all, less than a third of the time he got during the regular season, but didn't directly cite his defense as the reason. I don't think it's because he let in say...10 points in 7 minutes, but rather that they wanted Anthony on the floor during the playoffs...which makes sense. Anthony has averaged 39mpg in the playoffs over his career, so 42 minutes isn't some crazy aberration. Also, 4 points in 6 minutes isn't too shabby, while a 6'8" 245lb Sf/Pf getting pushed down by 7'0" 245lb HOF Pf/C in the post isn't exactly earth shattering by any means. I still think Kleiza can hold his own on defense, with his size/intensity/toughness making up a bit for his lack of quickness.

[EZ]

LK is coming to a team that lacks a 'go-to-guy' or number 1 option. Calling him a star is way out there, however he can post solid numbers...I'm afraid he will catch the Mike James syndrome and have bloated stats, thus causing fans to believe he is the answer to our problems.

I'm not hating on the signing whatsoever, and feel he can contribute to the sucky Raps team.

[roundhead0]

After Linas Kleiza didn't play in Denver's final game of the first round, Nuggets coach George Karl suggested that Kleiza would play more in the Dallas series because of his ability to run the floor and knock down the 3-pointer. But after playing only seven scoreless minutes in the first game, he played just six Tuesday, scoring four points, missing two 3-point attempts.

Entering Game 2, Karl said Kleiza hadn't played much because of "just my feel of the game."

It's noted that Denver's "other" small forward, Carmelo Anthony, played 42 minutes Tuesday. And Kleiza has struggled defensively at times this season and has been overmatched, notably when Dirk Nowitzki pushed him down in the low post.

It's not really that strong a damning of Kleiza's defense imo. Karl didn't play him much at all, less than a third of the time he got during the regular season, but didn't directly cite his defense as the reason. I don't think it's because he let in say...10 points in 7 minutes, but rather that they wanted Anthony on the floor during the playoffs...which makes sense. Anthony has averaged 39mpg in the playoffs over his career, so 42 minutes isn't some crazy aberration. Also, 4 points in 6 minutes isn't too shabby, while a 6'8" 245lb Sf/Pf getting pushed down by 7'0" 245lb HOF Pf/C in the post isn't exactly earth shattering by any means. I still think Kleiza can hold his own on defense, with his size/intensity/toughness making up a bit for his lack of quickness.

I don't think anything had to be said about Kleiza's defense--it was understood. Heck, it was even the title of the mini-article.

But articles/previews/scouting reports aside, did you watch Kleiza play any games with Denver? I know with their style it is sometimes hard to evaluate a player's defense, but even by Denver's standards he was a liability, and enough so that they had to take a scorer out of a line-up focused on offense and scoring. In the 2008-09 playoffs he had an eye-popping 133 Ortg, and yet in their 16 playoff games he got under 9 minutes six times, including zero minutes twice. And it wasn't just because Melo was out there, because Melo got his 40+ minutes even in games where Kleiza got plenty of minutes.

I'm not trying to put Kleiza down. I just think that some of the expectations out there right now for him--and some of the other players--are complete fantasy.

[ontnut]

After Linas Kleiza didn't play in Denver's final game of the first round, Nuggets coach George Karl suggested that Kleiza would play more in the Dallas series because of his ability to run the floor and knock down the 3-pointer. But after playing only seven scoreless minutes in the first game, he played just six Tuesday, scoring four points, missing two 3-point attempts.

Entering Game 2, Karl said Kleiza hadn't played much because of "just my feel of the game."

It's noted that Denver's "other" small forward, Carmelo Anthony, played 42 minutes Tuesday. And Kleiza has struggled defensively at times this season and has been overmatched, notably when Dirk Nowitzki pushed him down in the low post.

It's not really that strong a damning of Kleiza's defense imo. Karl didn't play him much at all, less than a third of the time he got during the regular season, but didn't directly cite his defense as the reason. I don't think it's because he let in say...10 points in 7 minutes, but rather that they wanted Anthony on the floor during the playoffs...which makes sense. Anthony has averaged 39mpg in the playoffs over his career, so 42 minutes isn't some crazy aberration. Also, 4 points in 6 minutes isn't too shabby, while a 6'8" 245lb Sf/Pf getting pushed down by 7'0" 245lb HOF Pf/C in the post isn't exactly earth shattering by any means. I still think Kleiza can hold his own on defense, with his size/intensity/toughness making up a bit for his lack of quickness.

I don't think anything had to be said about Kleiza's defense--it was understood. Heck, it was even the title of the mini-article.

But articles/previews/scouting reports aside, did you watch Kleiza play any games with Denver? I know with their style it is sometimes hard to evaluate a player's defense, but even by Denver's standards he was a liability, and enough so that they had to take a scorer out of a line-up focused on offense and scoring. In the 2008-09 playoffs he had an eye-popping 133 Ortg, and yet in their 16 playoff games he got under 9 minutes six times, including zero minutes twice. And it wasn't just because Melo was out there, because Melo got his 40+ minutes even in games where Kleiza got plenty of minutes.

I'm not trying to put Kleiza down. I just think that some of the expectations out there right now for him--and some of the other players--are complete fantasy.

I did watch some Denver games and yes, he wasn't exactly a defensive stalwart but somehow I don't think it's SOLELY because of his defense that Karl decided not to play him (as quoted below).

Things can change: I mean, Jermaine O'Neal averaged 10 mpg for the first 4 years of his career on a team that went to conf. finals and didn't look like much of a defensive stalwart at the time either, and averaged worse scoring numbers/percentages per minute than Kleiza through 4 years...he turned out ok though. I know POR had Sheed and Sabonis to rob PT, but my point is that a quick change of scenery and role can really change a player and the way he is perceived. I'd like to see how he performs in Toronto's system before judging him entirely. I'm not saying he's going to become JO on defense, but if he can play with JO's toughness and grit, which I believe he has, that will be more than enough for a 5 million dollar player when added to his offensive game.

Karl said one of the reasons Linas Kleiza has played fewer minutes in the postseason is "for me, putting as many playmakers on the court, rather than scorers, makes us a better team. L.K., I think, is a runner and scorer and not a playmaker. So when I can get Anthony Carter, J.R. (Smith) and Chauncey (Billups) on the court together, I did it."

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_12 ... source=rss

[Kabookalu]

After Linas Kleiza didn't play in Denver's final game of the first round, Nuggets coach George Karl suggested that Kleiza would play more in the Dallas series because of his ability to run the floor and knock down the 3-pointer. But after playing only seven scoreless minutes in the first game, he played just six Tuesday, scoring four points, missing two 3-point attempts.

Entering Game 2, Karl said Kleiza hadn't played much because of "just my feel of the game."

It's noted that Denver's "other" small forward, Carmelo Anthony, played 42 minutes Tuesday. And Kleiza has struggled defensively at times this season and has been overmatched, notably when Dirk Nowitzki pushed him down in the low post.

It's not really that strong a damning of Kleiza's defense imo. Karl didn't play him much at all, less than a third of the time he got during the regular season, but didn't directly cite his defense as the reason. I don't think it's because he let in say...10 points in 7 minutes, but rather that they wanted Anthony on the floor during the playoffs...which makes sense. Anthony has averaged 39mpg in the playoffs over his career, so 42 minutes isn't some crazy aberration. Also, 4 points in 6 minutes isn't too shabby, while a 6'8" 245lb Sf/Pf getting pushed down by 7'0" 245lb HOF Pf/C in the post isn't exactly earth shattering by any means. I still think Kleiza can hold his own on defense, with his size/intensity/toughness making up a bit for his lack of quickness.

This is exactly what I was thinking upon reading the article. Headlines are always deceiving; they'll do anything to get your attention to read the article itself. Kleiza isn't some juggernaut on defense as noted many times in this thread, he's also not terrible either. In the playoffs there's no way Carmelo Anthony should be getting less than 35 minutes a game, so the only way Kleiza was going to see minutes was at Carmelo's resting periods and at PF. At PF Kleiza's defense is definitely a problem as the article cites; Dirk just overpowers him. The article didn't say Kleiza's defense in general was a problem, but his defense in context of the time it was written was the problem.

[ansoncarter]

athleticism is pretty low on the list of most important qualities for good d
tim duncan >= dwight at defence

[Kabookalu]

athleticism is pretty low on the list of most important qualities for good d
tim duncan >= dwight at defence

Firstly, Tim Duncan in his prime was a very underrated athlete. Secondly, athleticism for defense is much more important on the perimeter than in the low post. Anthony Parker is a skilled defender but when he lost his athleticism (shortly after his first year of return too), he was a terrible defender. Bruce Bowen is also skilled, but in his latter years when he lost much of his athleticism, he was virtually useless on the court.

[Valard]

athleticism is pretty low on the list of most important qualities for good d
tim duncan >= dwight at defence

Firstly, Tim Duncan in his prime was a very underrated athlete. Secondly, athleticism for defense is much more important on the perimeter than in the low post. Anthony Parker is a skilled defender but when he lost his athleticism (shortly after his first year of return too), he was a terrible defender. Bruce Bowen is also skilled, but in his latter years when he lost much of his athleticism, he was virtually useless on the court.

I would disagree with your assertion that Parker was a terrible defender after his first year

[ansoncarter]

regardless when bowen's body broke down he had his best D years as he got older, which is pretty much the norm in the nba

smarts/experience/intuition>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>athleticism

at least as far as the run/jump athleticism everyone is referring to when they mention it in regards to D. There have been a wack-load of good defensive players over the years who most would consider pretty ordinary athletes by nba standards

[R1G]

Lithuania just routed France 69-55 to go undefeated in pool play and take 1st place.

Kleiza 15 points all in the 2nd half

[ontnut]

Lithuania just routed France 69-55 to go undefeated in pool play and take 1st place.

Kleiza 15 points all in the 2nd half

Kleiza has been a scoring MACHINE this tourney. Wonder if this is going to make him turn into chukfino.

[Kabookalu]

I would disagree with your assertion that Parker was a terrible defender after his first year

Point taken, he was bad, not terrible.

regardless when bowen's body broke down he had his best D years as he got older, which is pretty much the norm in the nba

smarts/experience/intuition>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>athleticism

at least as far as the run/jump athleticism everyone is referring to when they mention it in regards to D. There have been a wack-load of good defensive players over the years who most would consider pretty ordinary athletes by nba standards

Shane Battier is the exception, not the rule, and he plays great defense by excessively studying his opponent. And Bruce Bowen didn't become better as he grew older. Instead he became more known. He was already known for his defense even before joining the Spurs, made An All Defensive Team iirc. Joining a defensive minded team is what really allowed his defense to flourish. And smarts, experience, intuition and all that isn't going to help you if you've lost your athleticism and are too slow to guard your man. That's why I used Parker as an example; his first year with us he was a great defender, arguably one of the best in the league. He was even celebrated for having played great defense on Kobe Bryant. The very next year? Just go into any Raptors game thread and there have been cries and cries of people complaining of Parker's defense. Parker has a lot more of this smarts/experience/intuition than Sonny Weems and you wouldn't dare say Weems is a worse defender.

[largib]

Lithuania just routed France 69-55 to go undefeated in pool play and take 1st place.

Kleiza 15 points all in the 2nd half

Kleiza has been a scoring MACHINE this tourney. Wonder if this is going to make him turn into chukfino.

Why is it that all players not named Kobe, Lebron, Wade, or other franchise players, referred to as "chuckers". I thought chuckers were players who sought opportunities to shoot regardless of the situation, and have no regard for other team mates in respect to passing the ball. Delfino, or Kleiza certainly don't qualify in that regard.

[ontnut]

Lithuania just routed France 69-55 to go undefeated in pool play and take 1st place.

Kleiza 15 points all in the 2nd half

Kleiza has been a scoring MACHINE this tourney. Wonder if this is going to make him turn into chukfino.

Why is it that all players not named Kobe, Lebron, Wade, or other franchise players, referred to as "chuckers". I thought chuckers were players who sought opportunities to shoot regardless of the situation, and have no regard for other team mates in respect to passing the ball. Delfino, or Kleiza certainly don't qualify in that regard.

Uh Delfino was most certainly a chucker...he shot what, under 40% for the Raps and took 8 shots a game? Last year he shot 40% and took 10 shots a game. Is that not chucking, especially given that half his shots come from distance and fairly early in the clock? People call JR Smith a chucker, but his career fg% is 3 percent better than Delfino. It's chucking if you shoot often and don't make the shots, but continue shooting anyways.
I'm just saying I wonder if all this offensive goodness will go to Kleiza's head. Just because you perceive that people use the word chucker frequently doesn't mean that everyone always labels anybody other than franchise players as chuckers - such generalization.

[Boogie!]

To be honest, he is no franchise player. Both are role players, one might be a "good" role player and the other might be a "decent" role player.
Neither would be a top 3 option on a championship team.

right now, there's probably only one or two players that are franchise players on championship teams.

[Laowai]

I wonder if Phoenix is now kicking themselves in the ass at not resigning Klieza.
I know they would have liked him but they already had a $80 million payroll.
With Melo wanting out he would have been one of the few bright spots on there team.

[ghuytro]

I wonder if Phoenix is now kicking themselves in the ass at not resigning Klieza.I know they would have liked him but they already had a $80 million payroll.
With Melo wanting out he would have been one of the few bright spots on there team.

You mean Denver?

[J Dilla]

This **** happens every year. We get a player on the cheap, then the Raptor fans add their unrealistic expectations on the player only to be disappointed during the season.

It's been the same with Chuckfino, Belinelli, Adams and Will Solomon. Please be realistic and let the man play his game.

[notskeebs]

This **** happens every year. We get a player on the cheap, then the Raptor fans add their unrealistic expectations on the player only to be disappointed during the season.

It's been the same with Chuckfino, Belinelli, Adams and Will Solomon. Please be realistic and let the man play his game.

Ya because BC has never pulled out a gem before.

[Laowai]

I wonder if Phoenix is now kicking themselves in the ass at not resigning Klieza.I know they would have liked him but they already had a $80 million payroll.
With Melo wanting out he would have been one of the few bright spots on there team.

You mean Denver?

Exactly brain cramp.