Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[Reignman]

IMO Williams will be someone who can play 2 position rather than a tweener who can't play either. And Bargnani and Randolph comparisons are kida unfair because Williams is a much better player than the two. Now Beasley was a stud but I think most can agree that if he had a brain he would have become something.

That's my question really, if he can play both positions then he's an excellent pick. I guess the workouts will have to determine that.

My whole concern here is improving our defensive outlook moving forward. We've been the worst defensive team two years running and we need to ensure these guys we draft have a defensive position in the league.

[Reignman]

i just did the espn draft lottery engine couple mins ago and damn we dropped from 3rd to 6th spot, that scares the hell out of me dang.

I found the majority of times I played with that thing, we fell to 4, 5 or 6. It's definitely a possibility -- we're more likely to be 5th or 4th than 3rd, 2nd or 1st.

Stop playing with your thing, you're causing bad vibes.

[Dr Positivity]

I think more often than not feel for the court and fluidity is the best indicator for translating to the NBA. The two guys who seem like they REALLY have that is Irving and Williams. Biyombo, Val and Vesely all have question marks in that area. Kanter I don't know, in all his old clips it seems like he has it Irving/Williams style but could not playing in college level basketball (Please Use More Appropriate Word) his development? I'm going to say he'll be fine

[Dr Positivity]

Not every player on a court has to be standout defensively, especially in the case of 20ppg stars because they use a lot of energy to score and then save other players energy. As long as he's not a liability great defensive teams can be built around D Will, IMO

It seems to me the model is getting offensive talent and then surrounded them with defenders. Offenisve all-stars is still the most important thing and hardest to get.

[fredericklove]

i just did the espn draft lottery engine couple mins ago and damn we dropped from 3rd to 6th spot, that scares the hell out of me dang.

I found the majority of times I played with that thing, we fell to 4, 5 or 6. It's definitely a possibility -- we're more likely to be 5th or 4th than 3rd, 2nd or 1st.

yea worried about that possibility. fortunately i played 10 times and 3 out of 10 were irving (1st), 2 out of 10 were DWill (2nd) and the rest were kanter at 4th and Kemba 6th.

Jonas brother is our last option.

[fredericklove]

Not every player on a court has to be standout defensively, especially in the case of 20ppg stars because they use a lot of energy to score and then save other players energy. As long as he's not a liability great defensive teams can be built around D Will, IMO

It seems to me the model is getting offensive talent and then surrounded them with defenders. Offenisve all-stars is still the most important thing and hardest to get.

If DWill can avg 20 and 7 for us I'd be happy.

[5DOM]

He probably has the best chance to be a 20 ppg scorer out of this draft. I don't see anyone else scoring that much tbh

[pspot]

not sure of the credibility of the source, i think its a local radio station

WCHL Sports

UNC freshman Harrison Barnes is reportedly enrolling in summer classes at Carolina, adding to widespread speculation that he’ll be returning to the Tar Heels next season.

The website ISportsWeb.com is reporting that Barnes will announce his return “no later than Thursday,” though that report is unconfirmed.

Barnes led the Heels with 15.7 points per game in his freshman year. Numerous analysts have projected he’d be a top-5 pick in the NBA Draft if he elected to turn pro.

panic

[bboyskinnylegs]

Any interest in Jeremy Tyler with a bought late 1st rounder/2nd rounder?

He measured out pretty well at the Reebok Eurocamp from a year ago: 6'10'.28" in shoes (6'9.10" w/o), 246lbs, with a 7'4" wingspan, 9'3" standing reach, 27.2" no-step vert, 33.1" max vert, and 11'11.73" max vert reach. It's been a rough two years for him since he skipped his senior year to play overseas (terrible recommendation by Sonny Vaccaro), but the kid has a lot of raw talent and physical tools, and if anything, the last two years should have been a humbling experience for him. In 33 games, he averaged 9.9pts/6.4rebs playing 15mpg.

Here's a blog that's been tracking his play with the Tokyo Apache this year, with some little snippets of him playing:
http://www.asiabasketballupdate.com/jeremy-tyler.html

Here's his best performance with the Apache, putting in 27/11 (he's #8):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHibSXCrIL8&feature=related[/youtube]

And for fun, some youtube videos of him from his earlier years, as well as a (somewhat amusing) promo from the movie/documentary that is being made about him:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-IqkW8rhrY&feature=relmfu[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ99_F5iQ-4&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aevBoY5IaxA&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39qbsiWFUZw&feature=related[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdc9FLt1Ovc&feature=related[/youtube]

You can't gather much from watching him play against smaller players in high school, but he certainly appears to be comfortable handling the ball, has a decent looking jumper, and looks very mobile/athletic with some nimble footwork.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Barnes took summer classes last year, too, he likes school. He's going to get his degree(s) no matter what, he'll do it Bayless-style in the NBA if he wants to. I don't think it means anything.

[Lionel Messi]

You guys are basically putting an Antawn Jamison type ceiling on D-Will. Jamison isn't bad or anything, but he was basically a better version of Bargs his whole career.

[MinnyMo]

i just did the espn draft lottery engine couple mins ago and damn we dropped from 3rd to 6th spot, that scares the hell out of me dang.

I found the majority of times I played with that thing, we fell to 4, 5 or 6. It's definitely a possibility -- we're more likely to be 5th or 4th than 3rd, 2nd or 1st.

yea worried about that possibility. fortunately i played 10 times and 3 out of 10 were irving (1st), 2 out of 10 were DWill (2nd) and the rest were kanter at 4th and Kemba 6th.

Jonas brother is our last option.

That's exactly what I got

[Dr Positivity]

You guys are basically putting an Antawn Jamison type ceiling on D-Will. Jamison isn't bad or anything, but he was basically a better version of Bargs his whole career.

A defensive liability at SF and then PF is not as bad as at C. Well maybe the old PF version of Jamison had that negative impact. But that's because he's been undersized AND slow the last few years. Williams should at least have PF+ footspeed. Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if he played more like a less explosive Amare than Beasley or Jamison, as a pnr PF with mobility and fluidity.

We would be in very good shape if we had Demar as a 20ppg SG and Williams as a 20ppg PF. You can build 50 W teams with two all-stars surrounded by the right role players. Then we'd need one more guy

[Silk Wilkes]

You guys are basically putting an Antawn Jamison type ceiling on D-Will. Jamison isn't bad or anything, but he was basically a better version of Bargs his whole career.

Antawn is not bad, but I'd put a Michael Beasley with his head on straight ceiling on DWill.

[Reignman]

You guys are basically putting an Antawn Jamison type ceiling on D-Will. Jamison isn't bad or anything, but he was basically a better version of Bargs his whole career.

A defensive liability at SF and then PF is not as bad as at C. Well maybe the old PF version of Jamison had that negative impact. But that's because he's been undersized AND slow the last few years. Williams should at least have PF+ footspeed. Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if he played more like a less explosive Amare than Beasley or Jamison, as a pnr PF with mobility and fluidity.

We would be in very good shape if we had Demar as a 20ppg SG and Williams as a 20ppg PF. You can build 50 W teams with two all-stars surrounded by the right role players. Then we'd need one more guy

This type of thinking is what has plagued the BC era. Hell, isn't that what Bosh/Bargs was envisioned to be? 2 20ppg scorers in the frontcourt dominating everyone else?

Let's start thinking about defense folks, I know it's a hard thing to do after the last few years. 20 ppg means NOTHING if the team can't defend.

We need two-way players. D Will may/may not be that guy and if he's not then I don't give a rats ass about 20 ppg and would rather roll with a defender like Kanter or Val who the potential to give 15-17 ppg down the road.

Defense should be very high on the list of priorities for this team.

[pspot]

You guys are basically putting an Antawn Jamison type ceiling on D-Will. Jamison isn't bad or anything, but he was basically a better version of Bargs his whole career.

A defensive liability at SF and then PF is not as bad as at C. Well maybe the old PF version of Jamison had that negative impact. But that's because he's been undersized AND slow the last few years. Williams should at least have PF+ footspeed. Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if he played more like a less explosive Amare than Beasley or Jamison, as a pnr PF with mobility and fluidity.

We would be in very good shape if we had Demar as a 20ppg SG and Williams as a 20ppg PF. You can build 50 W teams with two all-stars surrounded by the right role players. Then we'd need one more guy

This type of thinking is what has plagued the BC era. Hell, isn't that what Bosh/Bargs was envisioned to be? 2 20ppg scorers in the frontcourt dominating everyone else?

Let's start thinking about defense folks, I know it's a hard thing to do after the last few years. 20 ppg means NOTHING if the team can't defend.

We need two-way players. D Will may/may not be that guy and if he's not then I don't give a rats ass about 20 ppg and would rather roll with a defender like Kanter or Val who the potential to give 15-17 ppg down the road.

Defense should be very high on the list of priorities for this team.

I'm ready for a defensive era of Raps ball for sure and I think the fans would respond and support a team that shuts others down. Also hard nosed d usually leads to fast break dunks. Fans would eat
that **** up

Block party leads to dunk party leads to happy fans

[Dr Positivity]

Well Bosh and Bargnani in a frontcourt was clearly not going to work defensively. Bargnani is in a different planet of liability for Cs

I have no qualms saying

Athletic PG
Derozan
Athletic SF
Williams
Defensive center

Defensive coach, transition d over offensive rebounding, accountability and commitment

Can d up. Demar and Williams might not be all defensive team guys but they can rotate fast with their athleticism which is the most important thing. The 7th-12th ranked defenses right now are New Orleans, Memphis, Philly, Dallas, San Antonio and Indiana with West, Zbo, Brand, Dirk, Blair and Psycho T as PFs. If they can do it Williams can

I don't think we're in a position to turn down all-star offensive talent because they don't have All-D team potential.

[5DOM]

Again, defense at the SF position is not as important as at 4 or 5. In Bosh and Bargnani, we had one average defender who the peers picked on because he was too soft and one who would challenge for the worst defender of all time. Williams may be average or slightly below average, but I haven't seen anything that suggested that he will be a Bargnani level defender. Hell, if defense was so important, we should get rid of DeMar too now. He's a couple years older than Williams, and he's pretty **** at D himself.

[Silk Wilkes]

Again, defense at the SF position is not as important as at 4 or 5. In Bosh and Bargnani, we had one average defender who the peers picked on because he was too soft and one who would challenge for the worst defender of all time. Williams may be average or slightly below average, but I haven't seen anything that suggested that he will be a Bargnani level defender. Hell, if defense was so important, we should get rid of DeMar too now. He's a couple years older than Williams, and he's pretty **** at D himself.

Well, DeMar has shown the will to win and get better. Bargnani never showed that to me at least. Getting DWill means he's a 3, Ed is our 4. I don't know where people are getting the idea that drafting DWill means demoting Ed. No, they play together. Williams has a great work ethic just like DeMar and with the right coach I have no doubt they will be at least solid defensively with Ed and a good Centre to compliment them in the front court. Guys like Bargnani are hard to hide because they're so lazy, but drafting guys like DeMar and Williams who would struggle defensively at first is not bad because they'll try and can be hidden in a team defense.

[Rejected]

I really hope Barnes enters the draft. I'm not sold on Williams. I'm not a fan of having someone at that tweener position. If he is a small forward I think that can work but, I don't want him at PF. If he is a small forward he will be in the Jamison, Beasley, Marion roll. A bigger SF who will back defenders down more then break them down, but I don't think he can defend that position.

The PF positions is also probably already our greatest strength with Davis and Amir. I like those two much better at that spot for there help defense, shot blocking, rebounding, length, athleticism and hustle on the glass. Picking Williams to me will be like when we picked Charlie V when we already had Bosh and needed anything else (granger cough), Then we followed that by picking another pf in Bargs. Thank god we picked Derozen instead of like a Jordan Hill if he fell. Im sick of picking power forwards. We should definitely draft on talent, but I hope theres a better talent available at a different position when we pick.