Masai Ujiri: Raptors Will Change Defensive Scheme For JV

DreamTeam09 · Post #101 » by **DreamTeam09** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:14 pm

Why don't teams just zone up when the other teams go to small ball. Zone up and keep your big in the middle. Let them hoist long shots.

Morse Code · Post #102 » by **Morse Code** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:24 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:Why don't teams just zone up when the other teams go to small ball. Zone up and keep your big in the middle. Let them hoist long shots.

I've often wondered this too. One of the knocks on zone is giving up offensive rebounds, but if you're playing zone because the other team is going small, maybe that wouldn't be as much of a concern anyways. I liked Casey's man/zone hybrid defense he ran in his first year here. Jack Armstrong pointed it out many times last year during games and suggested they should re approach that strategy since we were getting eaten alive on the pnr. Casey gonna Casey tho. :banghead:

Post #103 » by **Duffman100** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:27 pm

After reading through this thread I think a lot of people are right, even those arguing with each other.

a) JV has to get better at defense, no question.
b) Casey has to have better defensive schemes, both for the team as a whole and and for JV.
c) While defensive schemes are important, we need more talent, plain and simple. Whether Casey is a good coach or not (and I'm starting to think I really just don't know), he needs better players.
d) JV is a good young center who is progressing nicely. He is not a franchise player and putting that label on him is setting yourself and JV up for failure.

DreamTeam09 · Post #104 » by **DreamTeam09** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:35 pm

Morse Code wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:Why don't teams just zone up when the other teams go to small ball. Zone up and keep your big in the middle. Let them hoist long shots.

I've often wondered this too. One of the knocks on zone is giving up offensive rebounds, but if you're playing zone because the other team is going small, maybe that wouldn't be as much of a concern anyways. I liked Casey's man/zone hybrid defense he ran in his first year here. Jack Armstrong pointed it out many times last year during games and suggested they should re approach that strategy since we were getting eaten alive on the pnr. Casey gonna Casey tho.

I never thought of running the zone to counter the pnr but a 1-3-1 works perfectly. It'll force the pnr to start higher and even then there should be 2 more lines of defense before the basket. I think that would force the ball to the wings/corner more too.

We definitely should zone up more. Use that man zone more that you mentioned.

Post #105 » by **Undefeated** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:59 pm

ICE defense is pretty much a hybrid man/zone defense since weak-side defense is "zoning".

Courtside · Post #106 » by **Courtside** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:05 pm

I didn't hear the original interview, but I have a hard time believing that Masai would word his comments to say "We're changing the defendive scheme for Jonas"... and would like to ask the OP (or others who heard it) whether or not Masai said something more along the lines of "We're changing our defensive schemes to make better use of our roster's abilities, and those changes will be a benefit to Jonas"?

The "for Jonas" seems to be the OPs interpretation (and possibly clickbait choice of headline?)

Post #107 » by **Undefeated** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:15 pm

Morse Code wrote:ICE is good for sideline screens but when the ball is up top, these C's like JV has almost no chance. I could see a smart young coach coming up with a new game plan to attack this trend, and I can't wait to see what/who it is.

Most teams "Weak" against the high pick-&-roll which is pretty much the same as ICE where the on-ball defender forces the ball-handler away from the screen and funnels him to the screen defender. Weak-side defenders play "up the line" essentially "flooding" the strong-side. You can hear a lot of teams communicating "Weak" during Summer League action. That's one of the reasons why I enjoy Summer League because you can hear all the play calls/defensive coverages since the camera is so close to the action.

Post #108 » by **Undefeated** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:19 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:I never thought of running the zone to counter the pnr but a 1-3-1 works perfectly. It'll force the pnr to start higher and even then there should be 2 more lines of defense before the basket. I think that would force the ball to the wings/corner more too.

We definitely should zone up more. Use that man zone more that you mentioned.

Teams can easily overload the bottom/top part of the zone.

Johnny Bball · Post #109 » by **Johnny Bball** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:47 pm

Lateral Quicks wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
Lateral Quicks wrote:
Have you looked at his advanced stats? Show me other centres in NBA history that put up a PER of 20.6, a WS/48 of .189, and a TS% of 62.3% in their age 22 years. Unlike most big men, he shoots a good FT%. He put up 16.5 and 11.9 boards on a PER36 basis last year, with 1.6 blocks for good measure. And that's against starters, not bench scrubs.

This fan base has essentially zero patience. Bigs take time to develop.

You mean besides Drummond, Davis, Gobert this year alone and countless others in NBA history that put up similar numbers? Or the bigs in that draft alone that have figured out how to play defense? There's patience and then there's fantasy like waiting 6 years and still talking about Bargnani's potential. This is the last year I wait for JV to show something.

Drummond has, with little exaggeration, no offensive game. He's nothing more than a dunker at this point. And even when gets to the line, he shoots free throws at an abysmal rate. His stats last year: 21.4 PER, .504 TS%, .147 WS/48. JV's are significantly better.

Davis is a (1) a generational talent and (2) a PF. If he's your benchmark for evaluating a frontcourt player, you're always going to be disappointed.

Rudy Gobert is a great player. No argument there from me.

I'm not saying JV is going to be the best centre in NBA history here. But the fact is he's already a pretty solid player, and the base is there to turn into a star as early as this year. We all know he needs to cut down on the body fat and improve his explosiveness. If he's able to do that while retaining most of the muscle he's added the last few years, he could be a beast.

As for your criticism of his defense, did you watch any games last year? Our perimeter D was just awful. And when opposing guards glide by our porous defenders, who's made to look the worst? That's right, the last line of defense - your centre. Obviously JV has work to do defensively, and I doubt he'll ever be a big-time shot-blocker, but he was made to look much worse than he actually is defensively last year.

If you can't really figure out why our defense was bad you can go on thinking this, but I'm not having this discussion again.

Morse Code · Post #110 » by **Morse Code** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:53 pm

Undefeated wrote:
Morse Code wrote:ICE is good for sideline screens but when the ball is up top, these C's like JV has almost no chance. I could see a smart young coach coming up with a new game plan to attack this trend, and I can't wait to see what/who it is.

Most teams "Weak" against the high pick-&-roll which is pretty much the same as ICE where the on-ball defender forces the ball-handler away from the screen and funnels him to the screen defender. Weak-side defenders play "up the line" essentially "flooding" the strong-side. You can hear a lot of teams communicating "Weak" during Summer League action. That's one of the reasons why I enjoy Summer League because you can hear all the play calls/defensive coverages since the camera is so close to the action.

I'm not familiar with that concept. Would it require a 3rd defender to sag to the middle? My biggest worry with ICE, although its less of a concern than the trap that Casey sent out last year, is that 1. JV won't be quick enough to get back to his man once the screener pops, and 2. Kyle isn't quick enough to get level with the ball handler quick enough so JV can move to the top. I picture JV having to stay there too long, to cut off the angle, and that leaving the screener wide open. Maybe Casey will implement a series of rotations where JV can just move to the offensive player under the rim, and each perimeter defender slides over one. I'm not sure how it's going to work but I can't imagine it being a seamless transition considering Lowry's quickness getting around the screen, and JV's quickness to recover to his man. With regards to the high screen and roll though, what are you suggesting we do there to avoid using a 3rd defender?

Edit: Btw thanks for your insight man, you're a highly valuable poster to this board.

Saciid11 · Post #111 » by **Saciid11** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:41 pm

MEDIC wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:
Gntts wrote:
Well, Saciid11 should now post the advanced stats for Bosh, when he was 22 in his 4th season:
PER of 22.6, a WS/48 of .174, and a TS% of 57.1%. He put up 21.1 and 10 boards on a PER36 basis, with 1.2 blocks...
and forget to mention that Bosh was playing 38.5 min per game with 14.8 FGA vs 26.2 MPG with 8.2 FGA of JV's.

Just like Barkley said advanced stats is for nerds who don't watch the game or understand the game... Bosh and JV are not the same league, Bosh carried his team as number one option and put up important stats... on the other JV puts up garbage stats and never plays when the game is on the line ... 4th Q...

Bosh was also force fed minutes on bad teams. Bosh played over 33MPG as a rookie (when he wasn't ready to contribute) & hasn't averaged any less than than his whole career. JV's career high is 8.3 FGA. Bosh's career low as a rookie is 9.5FGA.

Give JV the same opportunity Bosh had & his offensive numbers would be impressive.

Bosh force feed minute??? When we drafted Bosh, he was what 19 year old who weight like what 200 to 210... If I remember correctly they said he wouldn't contribute for at least 5 years... just like Bruno .. But Bosh, because of his hard work, skills, heart earned minute under Keven O'neil. The reason he earned minutes wasn't because of his offense, it was because of his D that Bosh got playing time under O'neil... To compare JV to Bosh , just shows how delusional JV defenders are...

Lets remember that we were told JV was supposed to be NBA ready as soon as he enters the league and by year two he should surpass Bosh... I think they said that he was Duncan lite..

Bosh as Raptor was probably top 5 power forward in the league and yet fans never gave the guy the same respect scrubs like JV and Bargnani got ...
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm-Z5cNxb5c[/youtube]

Post #112 » by **Duffman100** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:56 pm

Saciid11 wrote:
Bosh force feed minute??? When we drafted Bosh, he was what 19 year old who weight like what 200 to 210... If I remember correctly they said he wouldn't contribute for at least 5 years... just like Bruno ..

You remember incorrectly.

Clutch Carter · Post #113 » by **Clutch Carter** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:57 pm

Courtside wrote:I didn't hear the original interview, but I have a hard time believing that Masai would word his comments to say "We're changing the defendive scheme for Jonas"... and would like to ask the OP (or others who heard it) whether or not Masai said something more along the lines of "We're changing our defensive schemes to make better use of our roster's abilities, and those changes will be a benefit to Jonas"?

The "for Jonas" seems to be the OPs interpretation (and possibly clickbait choice of headline?)

Pretty sure OP is accurate, from what I remember Masai was asked about specifically about JV and he mentioned how what we were doing as a team wasn't suitable for him at times and how we'd be changing things in the future to make it easier for him.... something like that.

Oh yeah, he also said something about how he'll be playing 4th quarter minutes for sure this year, something like that.

Saciid11 · Post #114 » by **Saciid11** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:04 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:
Bosh force feed minute??? When we drafted Bosh, he was what 19 year old who weight like what 200 to 210... If I remember correctly they said he wouldn't contribute for at least 5 years... just like Bruno ..

You remember incorrectly.

I remember correctly, Rookie Bosh earned his minutes and half way his second year he took over the reign as number one option... This is the same player the scouts said is 5 years away from contributing anything, because he was soo skinny to play the power forward let alone Center position which he played allot of the time in his rookie year... Bosh has always been underrated, hated like Derozen on this board, but as Raptor Bosh gave 100% unlike Vince who basically forced a trade ....

Post #115 » by **Duffman100** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:06 pm

Saciid11 wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:
Bosh force feed minute??? When we drafted Bosh, he was what 19 year old who weight like what 200 to 210... If I remember correctly they said he wouldn't contribute for at least 5 years... just like Bruno ..

You remember incorrectly.

I remember correctly, Rookie Bosh earned his minutes and half way his second year he took over the reign as number one option... This is the same player the scouts said is 5 years away from contributing anything, because he was soo skinny to play the power forward let alone Center position which he played allot of the time in his rookie year... Bosh has always been underrated, hated like Derozen on this board, but as Raptor Bosh gave 100% unlike Vince who basically forced a trade ....

Please find me a quote of someone saying Bosh was 5 years away from contributing. It would be incredible if we spent the 4th pick on guy who was 5 years away.

Tacoma · Post #116 » by **Tacoma** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:08 pm

Saciid11 wrote:
MEDIC wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:
Just like Barkley said advanced stats is for nerds who don't watch the game or understand the game... Bosh and JV are not the same league, Bosh carried his team as number one option and put up important stats... on the other JV puts up garbage stats and never plays when the game is on the line ... 4th Q...

Bosh was also force fed minutes on bad teams. Bosh played over 33MPG as a rookie (when he wasn't ready to contribute) & hasn't averaged any less than than his whole career. JV's career high is 8.3 FGA. Bosh's career low as a rookie is 9.5FGA.

Give JV the same opportunity Bosh had & his offensive numbers would be impressive.

Bosh force feed minute??? When we drafted Bosh, he was what 19 year old who weight like what 200 to 210... If I remember correctly they said he wouldn't contribute for at least 5 years... just like Bruno .. But Bosh, because of his hard work, skills, heart earned minute under Keven O'neil. The reason he earned minutes wasn't because of his offense, it was because of his D that Bosh got playing time under O'neil... To compare JV to Bosh , just shows how delusional JV defenders are...

Lets remember that we were told JV was supposed to be NBA ready as soon as he enters the league and by year two he should surpass Bosh... I think they said that he was Duncan lite..

Bosh as Raptor was probably top 5 power forward in the league and yet fans never gave the guy the same respect scrubs like JV and Bargnani got ...

Bosh played the C position in his rookie season (Donyell was the starting PF). There was absolutely no need to force feed him minutes because the other Centers were Moiso and Bateer.

Bosh doesn't get enough credit for always being the team player. He was constantly being asked to play out of position (he's a natural PF) in Toronto and he did it with gusto, 100% effort and no complaining. His minutes were absolutely earned.

Saciid11 · Post #117 » by **Saciid11** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:23 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
You remember incorrectly.

I remember correctly, Rookie Bosh earned his minutes and half way his second year he took over the reign as number one option... This is the same player the scouts said is 5 years away from contributing anything, because he was soo skinny to play the power forward let alone Center position which he played allot of the time in his rookie year... Bosh has always been underrated, hated like Derozen on this board, but as Raptor Bosh gave 100% unlike Vince who basically forced a trade ....

Please find me a quote of someone saying Bosh was 5 years away from contributing. It would be incredible if we spent the 4th pick on guy who was 5 years away.

I'm not making this up, I was watching that draft ... The scouts thought Bosh had allot of potential, but they believed he was at least couple years if not more to really contribute anything.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RfBbfvKTkM[/youtube]

Post #118 » by **Duffman100** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:35 pm

Saciid11 wrote:
I'm not making this up, I was watching that draft ... The scouts thought Bosh had allot of potential, but they believed he was at least couple years if not more to really contribute anything.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RfBbfvKTkM[/youtube]

So where in that video do they say that?

Saciid11 · Post #119 » by **Saciid11** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:39 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Saciid11 wrote:
I'm not making this up, I was watching that draft ... The scouts thought Bosh had allot of potential, but they believed he was at least couple years if not more to really contribute anything.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RfBbfvKTkM[/youtube]

So where in that video do they say that?

That video say that, but they said Bosh wouldn't be ready anything soon and but I'm not making this up scouts at the time were saying Bosh wasn't gone be ready years to contribute... 5 might have exaggerated little bit, but I'm not far off...

Post #120 » by **Duffman100** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:45 pm

Saciid11 wrote:That video say that, but they said Bosh wouldn't be ready anything soon and but I'm not making this up scouts at the time were saying Bosh wasn't gone be ready years to contribute... 5 might have exaggerated little bit, but I'm not far off...

Okay, well I was just as obsessed with the NBA draft then, as I am now, and that definitely wasn't the scouting report of Bosh coming out. Sure, he was young and skinny and he needed to put on weight, but all the scouting reports said he was going to contribute, on both ends, right away.

He played, started and was a good player in the NCAA to the point where he was drafted 4th overall before Wade. He wasn't a raw project like Bruno.