M.Scotto: Toronto made Powell available in trade discussions

[Johnny Bball]

Any progression to these discussions?

He. Can’t. Be. Traded. Until. Summer.

[lebron stopper]

Yeah so we should hang onto a player because of a handful of games right? the truth is he has been absolute trash all year long and its not even debatable.

On offense yes. He turns over the ball too much, can't finish a lot of times despite getting to the rim, can't shoot well at all. He's forced a ton of his shots to prove that he is worth his contract, and ended up doing the opposite.

On defense...well: he held CJ McCollum to 13 points in the first meeting this season between TOR/POR (the box score says 16 but 3 of those points came from Delon fouling CJ on a missed 3 pointer), he held Klay Thompson to 6 points in the second half as part of a 71-46 Raptors run that boiled down to the final possession (I wish Raptors won that game, but Norm clamping Klay was the reason why they were in it until the very end), he held Jimmy Butler to 10 points in the second half as Raps beat the Wolves earlier this week, Bradley Beal could barely score on Powell and needed to be open to make his shots, Gary Harris IIRC had a tough time against Powell's defense (that Denver blowout is permanently erased from my memory, though, aside from Ibaka being flaming trash as usual). And that was from just this season. Did I mention Powell made Khris "better than DeMar" Middling's life a living hell in the playoffs last year?

He's still great at clamping down other guards, many of whom can do a lot of damage otherwise. But turning over the ball and not making shots has phased him out of a backcourt/guard rotation of Lowry, DeRozan, CJ Miles, Delon Wright, and Fred VanVleet. Two of those guys form our All-Star backcourt, Wright and VanVleet played better than Powell on offense while still providing defense to secure their place in the rotation, Miles is a shooting threat whenever he's on the floor. If our team wasn't this deep at so many positions, Powell would still see playing time.

The move for Daniels would be to get shooting off the bench (40% 3 point shooter) on a cheap deal and gives us the ability to retain FVV in the offseason.

I think it's a shortsighted and reactionary move.

Is Troy Daniels a good enough defender to warrant his shooting? CJ Miles is not a very good defender either and when he's unable to shoot in some games, it's not worth keeping him on the floor. Raptors bench works because they can defend like crazy and not bleed points when they are fully engaged. If you want to trade for shooters, we can do that without trading away Powell. For example, Marco Belinelli can be acquired for Bruno, Bebe, and a second rounder or two. Those two are further behind the rotation than Powell is. If Masai can work his magic, Rodney Hood or Will Barton can be acquired for a couple of second rounders as well if Utah or Denver don't want to pay them. Those are better defenders or shooters than Troy Daniels.

If you want to retain FVV in the offseason without paying luxury tax, consider dumping Ibaka onto some team like Chicago along with another first (sigh). Ibaka has done nothing to warrant paying him $20 million, other than being a 7 footer who can shoot 3s (which he does at about a league average percentage). He's a mediocre defender and rebounder who gets beaten easily off the dribble, and he has no real offensive game outside of forcing up shots. He's a low IQ player who belongs on the bench, not on a top 2 team in the East. Siakam can easily start for us with little dropoff. If, for some reason you don't like that move, consider trading away JV or CJ Miles for a reasonable draft pick (I'd hate this but JV should have better trade value now).

I wonder when the day will come when we stop overrating the hell out of average role players especially when they can't even crack the rotation.

Well I'm sure Troy Daniels is the missing piece to lead the Raptors to the promised land, the NBA Finals. And all we have to do is trade away that bum, NormBrick Tunnel Vision Powell, who was overpaid by our trash GM Masai who has no clue how to evaluate talent!

[Mr Burns]

Yeah so we should hang onto a player because of a handful of games right? the truth is he has been absolute trash all year long and its not even debatable.

On offense yes. He turns over the ball too much, can't finish a lot of times despite getting to the rim, can't shoot well at all. He's forced a ton of his shots to prove that he is worth his contract, and ended up doing the opposite.

On defense...well: he held CJ McCollum to 13 points in the first meeting this season between TOR/POR (the box score says 16 but 3 of those points came from Delon fouling CJ on a missed 3 pointer), he held Klay Thompson to 6 points in the second half as part of a 71-46 Raptors run that boiled down to the final possession (I wish Raptors won that game, but Norm clamping Klay was the reason why they were in it until the very end), he held Jimmy Butler to 10 points in the second half as Raps beat the Wolves earlier this week, Bradley Beal could barely score on Powell and needed to be open to make his shots, Gary Harris IIRC had a tough time against Powell's defense (that Denver blowout is permanently erased from my memory, though, aside from Ibaka being flaming trash as usual). And that was from just this season. Did I mention Powell made Khris "better than DeMar" Middling's life a living hell in the playoffs last year?

He's still great at clamping down other guards, many of whom can do a lot of damage otherwise. But turning over the ball and not making shots has phased him out of a backcourt/guard rotation of Lowry, DeRozan, CJ Miles, Delon Wright, and Fred VanVleet. Two of those guys form our All-Star backcourt, Wright and VanVleet played better than Powell on offense while still providing defense to secure their place in the rotation, Miles is a shooting threat whenever he's on the floor. If our team wasn't this deep at so many positions, Powell would still see playing time.

The move for Daniels would be to get shooting off the bench (40% 3 point shooter) on a cheap deal and gives us the ability to retain FVV in the offseason.

I think it's a shortsighted and reactionary move.

Is Troy Daniels a good enough defender to warrant his shooting? CJ Miles is not a very good defender either and when he's unable to shoot in some games, it's not worth keeping him on the floor. Raptors bench works because they can defend like crazy and not bleed points when they are fully engaged. If you want to trade for shooters, we can do that without trading away Powell. For example, Marco Belinelli can be acquired for Bruno, Bebe, and a second rounder or two. Those two are further behind the rotation than Powell is. If Masai can work his magic, Rodney Hood or Will Barton can be acquired for a couple of second rounders as well if Utah or Denver don't want to pay them. Those are better defenders or shooters than Troy Daniels.

If you want to retain FVV in the offseason without paying luxury tax, consider dumping Ibaka onto some team like Chicago along with another first (sigh). Ibaka has done nothing to warrant paying him $20 million, other than being a 7 footer who can shoot 3s (which he does at about a league average percentage). He's a mediocre defender and rebounder who gets beaten easily off the dribble, and he has no real offensive game outside of forcing up shots. He's a low IQ player who belongs on the bench, not on a top 2 team in the East. Siakam can easily start for us with little dropoff. If, for some reason you don't like that move, consider trading away JV or CJ Miles for a reasonable draft pick (I'd hate this but JV should have better trade value now).

I wonder when the day will come when we stop overrating the hell out of average role players especially when they can't even crack the rotation.

Well I'm sure Troy Daniels is the missing piece to lead the Raptors to the promised land, the NBA Finals. And all we have to do is trade away that bum, NormBrick Tunnel Vision Powell, who was overpaid by our trash GM Masai who has no clue how to evaluate talent!

Please show me one post where I said Daniels was going to put us over the top? You contradict yourself through out your post its actually ridiculous.

1)You are calling other players low IQ players when the truth is Powell has one of the lowest IQs on this team and its not even close. They guy lacks vision and is an absolute black hole on offence (either a straight line drive for a trash layup or a forced three point brick). His defence is good but does that make up for his trash offence? if you are going to call out players for their defence I think its fair to say that having Powell on the floor when his shot isn't falling(which is more often than not) is like playing the game with a handicap. Forced shots and consistent turn overs. I love the dude but got to call it like it is.

2) you fail to recognize how badly Masai overpays players 1) Carroll 2) Ibaka 3) Lowry 4) Powell and thats just in Toronto. Go back to Denver and you have McGee, Lawson, Chandler to name a few. The guy is notorious for overpaying players just to retain them. Powell got a **** ton of money based off a handful of games and I'm the one that is short sighted? The guy is glued to the bench and barely gets any playing time after he was handed the starting spot.


This is the problem with Raptor fans tbh... never know when its time to just let go. Powell had his run with the team he is nothing more than what Ross was for this team at this point and the quicker people start to understand this the better.

[StopitLeo]

Norm cannot he traded until 6 months after the extension was signed because it was a 4 year deal.

Here is the relevant part from the actual CBA (not cbafaq):

Section 8. Trade Rules

(f) (i)
In the event a player enters into an Extension pursuant to Section 7(a) above (other than a Designated Veteran Player Extension governed by Section (f)(ii) below) that covers four (4) or more Seasons and/or provides for Salary and Unlikely Bonuses or annual increases in the player’s Salary and Unlikely Bonuses in excess of the amounts permissible in connection with Extensions entered in connection with an agreement to trade the Contract pursuant to Section 8(e)(2) above, the player may not be traded before six (6) months following the date on which such Extension was signed

Extension - > 4 or more seasons -> cannot be traded before 6 months

Seems pretty clear to me.

[mieshpal]

trey lyles trade would be nice but his contract is unreal and doesn't match. Would have to be fillers. Also Darrell Arthur is a nice pickup imo, but obviously not in a Powell deal. Also Powell can't be dealt right now

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[Hassassin]

Raptors probably just gauging his value around the league.

[RyderMike]

This scotto dude is actually pretty legit. Can someone actually confirm wether or not we can trade Powell this season

I reread Larry Coon's FAQ, and there is some ambiguity, but I believe we can - it's just that the poison pill provision applies. In essence, you have to create an average annual salary of his current salary and his extension - which works out to about $8.7 million. In trading him, his outgoing salary for the receiving team would be $8.7 million, but the Raptors can only take back $1.6 million. So normally, the receiving team has to have either enough cap space or a trade exception to absorb that. For sake of argument, the Bulls are one such team with a lot of cap space. But getting a play worth $1.6m would unlikely do much for the Raptors, except lighten their salaries situation for next year (which is one reason Powell might have been put on the market). However, the Raptors also have the Carroll trade exception which would allow them to take on a bigger salary, so a trade for current value might utilizing cap space and trade exceptions, but you need to have a willing trade partner with the requisite cap/exception flexibility to do that. And of course, this would put the Raptors into a tax position, and not just by a few dollars.

I don't think we can pair up the exception with a player to trade. I'll have to check.

Could always do "two" trades. Powell to a team with an 8million exception for their 2nd top 59 protected. Then we acquire player b in a second trade for our second top 59 protected using the dmc exception. Loophole

[MavCarter]

Not sure why we should have to choose between fvv and norm btw. It's time for MLSE to pay the tax. I'm sure they can survive paying it for 2 years until the trio is off the books.

[fouronesix22]

please do it masai. fvv is the guy i would want to keep and yeah og will get better

[MavCarter]

I bet half the people on here want to trade norm just for the sake of making a trade lmao

[lebron stopper]

Please show me one post where I said Daniels was going to put us over the top?

It's called exaggeration. I just thought it was funny that you would swap Powell aka "absolute trash all year long and its not even debatable" for Daniels aka "more shooting off the bench" at a 40% rate (which is ostensibly supposed to help, compared to "absolute trash all year long and its not even debatable") and then proceed to complain about overrating average role players.

You contradict yourself through out your post its actually ridiculous.

Nope, not at all. I said he's been great on defense and trash on offense, which is far from the "absolute trash all year long and its not even debatable" "truth" you labeled him with. I also said there are better ways to improve the team than to trade away Powell for peanuts like Daniels.

1)You are calling other players low IQ players when the truth is Powell has one of the lowest IQs on this team and its not even close. They guy lacks vision and is an absolute black hole on offence (either a straight line drive for a trash layup or a forced three point brick).

Does that make me wrong about Rudy "Serge Ibaka" Bargnani though? Is this the contradiction you were telling me about? LOL

Tell me, who should we dump onto someone else's lap to get farther away from luxury tax (which is what you want). Ibaka $20 million a year, or Powell $10 million a year? Choose wisely, one is a young player who saved Casey's job twice in the first round despite being in the league for three seasons now, the other is a starting player posing as THE third fiddle to Lowry and DeRozan.

His defence is good

So he is not "absolute trash all year long and its not even debatable" as you put it?

but does that make up for his trash offence? if you are going to call out players for their defence I think its fair to say that having Powell on the floor when his shot isn't falling(which is more often than not) is like playing the game with a handicap. Forced shots and consistent turn overs. I love the dude but got to call it like it is.

It's worth it if you can make the lives of Klay Thompson, Bradley Beal, CJ McCollum miserable and stop them from stepping all over the opposing team. So it looks like he is not "absolute trash all year long and its not even debatable" like you said.

Powell got a **** ton of money based off a handful of games and I'm the one that is short sighted?

Yes. Trading Powell for Daniels is shortsighted. We should get more value for Powell than that and not sell low on him and not have another James Johnson to Miami situation where we let a useful player slip away for nothing because he looked terrible at the time.

The guy is glued to the bench and barely gets any playing time after he was handed the starting spot.

Because we have depth and not every single damn team Raptors face has a monster at shooting guard who needs to be contained?

This is the problem with Raptor fans tbh... never know when its time to just let go. Powell had his run with the team he is nothing more than what Ross was for this team at this point and the quicker people start to understand this the better.

Did you just compare Terrence Ross, a guy who completely shat the bed in the playoffs multiple times and contributed to Raptors exiting the first round, to Norman Powell, a guy who has had impressive playoff performances and saved Casey's job and saved the Raptors from first round exits? LOL

[lebron stopper]

I bet half the people on here want to trade norm just for the sake of making a trade lmao

We should absolutely mortgage our future (dump young players onto other teams) just to stay out of the luxury tax. Just ask Oklahoma City Thunder GM Sam Presti how that went.

[Kinger95]

Norm still has great value around the league in my opinion. At least to certain teams.

Look at the contracts that guys like Evan turner, Allen crabbe, biz, mozgov, deng, Tyler Johnson, George hill.

They all make like twice what norm does and half of them are washed up only 1 year into new deals. When all the “stars” are gone in free agency the teams with tons of space left start throwing money at whoever will take it not wanting to strike out. Heaven forbid we would have let norm enter free agency as a restricted and some team throw Tyler Johnson/crabbe/ Otto Porter money at him then he’s gone for nothin. At least now you will always be able to flip him to a team that’s willing to take a gamble and get a pick/player back

[TheAlchemist]

An actual great trade would be Norm + other contracts for Aaron Gordon.

I see the trade profitable for both teams.

[mappiah19]

I know Powell can't be dealt but I'd only consider trading him if we could get Julius Randle. Other than that, I'd keep him

[DreamTeam09]

This is crazy to me because FVV despite how good he is playing is a 3rd string pg here. I’m taking Delon and norm and would much rather pay them their value rather than FVV and pay him whatever he is going to get. Y’all are in the what have you done for me lately stage, which is fine and fair. FVV has outplayed both of them this year and I’d much rather go fwd with both Delon and Norm rather than FVV.

[RaptorsLife]

I would much rather trade Cj miles. let Powell gets mins after that. raise his value than trade him at draft

[douggood]

An actual great trade would be Norm + other contracts for Aaron Gordon.

I see the trade profitable for both teams.

Off-season sure, but right now norm can't be traded and we are not allowed to trade with orlando till off-season. By then Aaron will be a rfa.

[The Duke]

powells value is at his lowest
our goal should be to move bench talents plus a starter minutes guy, for a much better starter ... then we up powells bench minutes, as there would be less good bench players around him after the trade.

if we cant work out a deal, fitting this recipe, we're not actually taking steps to improve the roster for the finals run, and we might as well just stand with what we got

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Draft night trade, boyeee. We need Fred.