Masai and Bobby are Asleep at the Wheel

[fbalmeida]

For the record, Giannis was definitely worth the risk. We would've established a categorical dynasty. No doubt in my mind.

[Dalek]

The biggest problem that I hope Bobby and Masai see is that this team which has Siakam, FVV, OG and Lowry who are all plus defenders, are still not a very good defensive team. Of course that team hasn't been together lately, but even when they were they were not leading an elite defensive team.

To me, that part of the championship identity has been eroding for a while and we have focused on being a team that tries to outscore its opponents despite not having the players who are creative and efficient scorers. Powell and Boucher have been consistent scorers, but that doesn't make up for their defensive failings.

Powell is near 99th ranked in defensive RPM for SGs, and Boucher 22 for PFs being just a slight positive on the floor despite averaging nearly 2 blocks. Boucher is likely miscast as a defender as his defensive field goal % is 27% on three point shots versus 56% on paint touches.

To me, Toronto needs to POA defenders, plus a player that can protect the rim and switch. Boucher is great for his money but we know he is not a C at this point and should be a SF/PF. Powell is a great 6th man type scorer but not a guy you want guarding elite players.

After that, the other role players need to actually be serviceable on both ends. TD is a turnover king and just has poor IQ both ways. Johnson and Bembry are completely replaceable as their impact on both ends is negligible. I'd keep Johnson just because he does appear to be able to space the floor a bit. Bembry only looks good when Lowry is spoonfeeding him the ball on cuts.

Toronto has to aim higher with its future roster.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Yes of course, and Baynes was easily one of the best available alternatives. Unfortunately his game has fallen off mightily, with career lows in efficiency and defensive impact. A confluence of misfortune to having lost Ibaka. So with Len playing poorly and eventually being waived, and Baynes falling decidedly short of expectations and playing very poorly early on, its like there's this permanent warning light that's been flashing and being purposely ignored far longer than it should have.

For whatever reason, they've opted to wait. I think a more balanced roster may have allowed us to have secured a 4-6 seed, instead of falling to 11th.

They were in that 4-6 seed before 3/5 of their starters got covid.

We're three/four games out of that 4-7 EC fracas. A balanced roster at the start of the season would've won those three/four games. We'd be facing the remaining schedule better prepared, more confident, and with a completely different outlook.

Instead we're pussy whipped and waiting on suitors for Lowry and Norm.

At the start of the season? Were they supposed to know that Baynes and Len would suck, but Hernangomez and Damion Jones would have been better?

This is completely irrational. They didn't sign these guys to suck, but sometimes that happens. They recovered, but then something else really bad happened that would devastate most teams. The Lowry/Norm situations would happen if we were good or bad.

[Slade3]

For the record, Giannis was definitely worth the risk. We would've established a categorical dynasty. No doubt in my mind.

Going after Giannis wasn't the problem. Not having a plan B is the issue.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Going after Giannis wasn't the problem. Not having a plan B is the issue.

That's the same reality the Heat have come to, there is no plan B.

[Slade3]

Going after Giannis wasn't the problem. Not having a plan B is the issue.

That's the same reality the Heat have come to, there is no plan B.

Yes, but it's the Front Office's job to have a plan B. Not having one means you failed at protecting your investment.

[Johnny Bball]

The Lakers won the title and added Gasol, Harrell and Schroeder.

The Raptors won the title and have gone 750+ days without making a trade. The biggest FA acquisition was Aron Baynes.

Even the best executives make mistakes and there is no question these past two years have been a run of bad decisions by the brain trust. It's unfortunate that a lot of people are unwilling to allow for any type of criticism around this team. Raptors fans have a right to be upset and they should be able to vent the frustrations.

How can you so disingenuously compare the two situations and try to be dead serious about it. Unreal.

After the Lakers last title window closed with Kobe tearing his achilles they rebuilt and picked up a ton of talent through the draft which then allowed them to be attractive to LeBron and then deal for AD.

Beyond that, it's not like last years Raptors were all that far from making real noise in the playoffs, yet nothing.

You have to choose a path.

No they didn't. They ran it back after 2013 and kept playing it out until Kobe retired in 2016 years later. Kind of like not blowing up a team after winning a title. Then after all that they didn't really even try to tank, the just sucked and had no choice. It truly unreal how you can warp that twice.

[DreamTeam09]

Going after Giannis wasn't the problem. Not having a plan B is the issue.

That's the same reality the Heat have come to, there is no plan B.

Yes, but it's the Front Office's job to have a plan B. Not having one means you failed at protecting your investment.

What makes you think that Plan B has to get done during the season and not in the offseason??

This season was always going to be a wash or throwaway season. Nothing we were going to do this year was going to impact the capspace on future years, and that was the right call to make, with or without Giannis signing his deal.

Plan B will be executed after the season is done.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

That's the same reality the Heat have come to, there is no plan B.

Yes, but it's the Front Office's job to have a plan B. Not having one means you failed at protecting your investment.

What makes you think that Plan B has to get done during the season and not in the offseason??

This season was always going to be a wash or throwaway season. Nothing we were going to do this year was going to impact the capspace on future years, and that was the right call to make, with or without Giannis signing his deal.

Plan B will be executed after the season is done.

The problem is there isn't anything to pivot into at this point. Harden was the last big name, unless another team blows it up...it's holding pattern time.

[carnage24]

"For the record, Giannis was definitely worth the risk. We would've established a categorical dynasty. No doubt in my mind"

[Tacoma]

After the Lakers last title window closed with Kobe tearing his achilles they rebuilt and picked up a ton of talent through the draft which then allowed them to be attractive to LeBron and then deal for AD.

Beyond that, it's not like last years Raptors were all that far from making real noise in the playoffs, yet nothing.

You have to choose a path.

They did choose a path, you just don't like it.

What path did they choose? Organic growth?

The last time Masai had a true path was around 2013 when he tried to trade Lowry to NYK that was supposed to start his tanking strategy, but Dolan vetoed it. Since the veto, there has been no true path guided by a discernible strategy. Masai talked a lot about needing time to evaluate and he said that so much that media and posters here were joking about it.

Masai's modus operandi has been heavy on being tactical and transactional, and light on having a set strategy towards a clear path. He wasn't dead set on trading DeRozan until Kawhi demanded a trade from SAS and Masai saw an opportunity to strike. The Gasol trade was also tactical because the team needed more leadership at the time and Nurse believed Gasol's experience would give the Raptors "a settling force" come playoff time (which ended up being true).

Hence my take on this is Masai doesn't choose a path, but rather he sits and waits patiently for the next opportunity (or when he is forced to take action like when FVV's contract came due) and the path reveals itself to him. And I think this is where he is now.

So to the OP, if Masai is sleeping, then he's doing it with one eye opened, looking for the next opportunity to pounce. In classic Masai fashion, he's evaluating.

[fbalmeida]

The biggest problem that I hope Bobby and Masai see is that this team which has Siakam, FVV, OG and Lowry who are all plus defenders, are still not a very good defensive team. Of course that team hasn't been together lately, but even when they were they were not leading an elite defensive team.

To me, that part of the championship identity has been eroding for a while and we have focused on being a team that tries to outscore its opponents despite not having the players who are creative and efficient scorers. Powell and Boucher have been consistent scorers, but that doesn't make up for their defensive failings.

Powell is near 99th ranked in defensive RPM for SGs, and Boucher 22 for PFs being just a slight positive on the floor despite averaging nearly 2 blocks. Boucher is likely miscast as a defender as his defensive field goal % is 27% on three point shots versus 56% on paint touches.

To me, Toronto needs to POA defenders, plus a player that can protect the rim and switch. Boucher is great for his money but we know he is not a C at this point and should be a SF/PF. Powell is a great 6th man type scorer but not a guy you want guarding elite players.

After that, the other role players need to actually be serviceable on both ends. TD is a turnover king and just has poor IQ both ways. Johnson and Bembry are completely replaceable as their impact on both ends is negligible. I'd keep Johnson just because he does appear to be able to space the floor a bit. Bembry only looks good when Lowry is spoonfeeding him the ball on cuts.

Toronto has to aim higher with its future roster.

Didn't want this to become an all purpose front-office critique thread, but now that you've mentioned it, if you're Masai and Bobby, you have also got to be planning on how to bring in better depth players that can provide you with superior rates of internal improvement.

The drop-off in year-on improvement, if any, from Thomas, TD, Stanimal, and Watson, in comparison to the previous cohort of Fred, Norm, OG, and Siakam, is an outright embarrassment. Boucher is the only standout.

[Marty_Budda]

For the record, Giannis was definitely worth the risk. We would've established a categorical dynasty. No doubt in my mind.

Going after Giannis wasn't the problem. Not having a plan B is the issue.

Just because you haven’t seen the fruits of a plan B yet doesn’t mean there isn’t one. You think Masai doesn’t know that our C rotation is pure doo doo? Maybe he’s trying to tank for the best pick. But he can’t really go out in public and say “hey guys we’re tanking”. If he saw this team as win now he would’ve upgraded the C spot by now.

Plan A was always giannis and plan B is something not as good or obvious (that’s why it’s a plan B and not a plan A) people have no patience I swear.

[will]

I would argue Ole is asleep at the wheel.

Christ, how he has Donny van de Beek nailed to the bench is incredible.

I know! Wrong sport.

[fbalmeida]

They were in that 4-6 seed before 3/5 of their starters got covid.

We're three/four games out of that 4-7 EC fracas. A balanced roster at the start of the season would've won those three/four games. We'd be facing the remaining schedule better prepared, more confident, and with a completely different outlook.

Instead we're pussy whipped and waiting on suitors for Lowry and Norm.

At the start of the season? Were they supposed to know that Baynes and Len would suck, but Hernangomez and Damion Jones would have been better?

This is completely irrational. They didn't sign these guys to suck, but sometimes that happens. They recovered, but then something else really bad happened that would devastate most teams. The Lowry/Norm situations would happen if we were good or bad.

It really didn't take that long to understand that reliance on Baynes as an everyday starter was going to be a bad idea. We might not have averted the 2-8 start. But we were 2-8, Len starts getting DNP-CDs until being waived on January 19th and and they waited until the 2nd week of March to add another C to the roster.

[ATLTimekeeper]

We're three/four games out of that 4-7 EC fracas. A balanced roster at the start of the season would've won those three/four games. We'd be facing the remaining schedule better prepared, more confident, and with a completely different outlook.

Instead we're pussy whipped and waiting on suitors for Lowry and Norm.

At the start of the season? Were they supposed to know that Baynes and Len would suck, but Hernangomez and Damion Jones would have been better?

This is completely irrational. They didn't sign these guys to suck, but sometimes that happens. They recovered, but then something else really bad happened that would devastate most teams. The Lowry/Norm situations would happen if we were good or bad.

It really didn't take that long to understand that reliance on Baynes as an everyday starter was going to be a bad idea. We might not have averted the 2-8 start. But we were 2-8, Len starts getting DNP-CDs until being waived on January 19th and and they waited until the 2nd week of March to add another C to the roster.

And in that stretch they were above .500.

[MixxSRC]

[Pooh_Jeter]

No they didn't. They ran it back after 2013 and kept playing it out until Kobe retired in 2016 years later. Kind of like not blowing up a team after winning a title. Then after all that they didn't really even try to tank, the just sucked and had no choice. It truly unreal how you can warp that twice.

The year after Kobe's achilles injury was both Nash and Gasol' final with the Lakers. From there until the 2016 off-season they took on no long term money because they were aiming to be players in free agency. Kobe was brought back on a huge contract basically to have an extended farewell and retire as a Laker. They were barely pretending to compete and instead made a bunch of excellent draft picks.

The 2016 off season was disastrous and led to a bunch of upheavel until they landed LeBron and then AD. Their draft record is overall outstanding in and out of the lottery and allowed them to construct the current version of their team.

[Johnny Bball]

No they didn't. They ran it back after 2013 and kept playing it out until Kobe retired in 2016 years later. Kind of like not blowing up a team after winning a title. Then after all that they didn't really even try to tank, the just sucked and had no choice. It truly unreal how you can warp that twice.

The year after Kobe's achilles injury was both Nash and Gasol' final with the Lakers. From there until the 2016 off-season they took on no long term money because they were aiming to be players in free agency. Kobe was brought back on a huge contract basically to have an extended farewell and retire as a Laker. They were barely pretending to compete and instead made a bunch of excellent draft picks.

The 2016 off season was disastrous and led to a bunch of upheavel until they landed LeBron and then AD. Their draft record is overall outstanding in and out of the lottery and allowed them to construct the current version of their team.

Yeah, extended farewell, just like running it back after a championship and not blowing it up immediately. If you aren't going to admit the blatant hypocrisy, why even bother to respond. They did not blow it up right away, again, just another thing that's not true.

As for losing Kawhi and James staying... how is that not trolling if you can't admit it's not the same. How.

[Pooh_Jeter]

No they didn't. They ran it back after 2013 and kept playing it out until Kobe retired in 2016 years later. Kind of like not blowing up a team after winning a title. Then after all that they didn't really even try to tank, the just sucked and had no choice. It truly unreal how you can warp that twice.

The year after Kobe's achilles injury was both Nash and Gasol' final with the Lakers. From there until the 2016 off-season they took on no long term money because they were aiming to be players in free agency. Kobe was brought back on a huge contract basically to have an extended farewell and retire as a Laker. They were barely pretending to compete and instead made a bunch of excellent draft picks.

The 2016 off season was disastrous and led to a bunch of upheavel until they landed LeBron and then AD. Their draft record is overall outstanding in and out of the lottery and allowed them to construct the current version of their team.

Yeah, extended farewell, just like running it back after a championship and not blowing it up immediately. If you aren't going to admit the blatant hypocrisy, why even bother to respond. They did not blow it up right away, again, just another thing that's not true.

As for losing Kawhi and James staying... how is that not trolling if you can't admit it's not the same. How.

You're using the terminology of "blowing it up," not me. When Kobe gets hurt, Dwight Howard leaves and you have an injured Nash and one year left of Gasol there isn't much to "blow up." They clearly pivoted to a rebuild.

It's unfortunate you are attempting to deny how history actually played out in an attempt to call me a troll and slander me.