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The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread

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Who ya got?

Suggs
126
36%
Barnes
221
64%
 
Total votes: 347

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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#101 » by PT416 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:31 am

NinjaBro wrote:That said I do like Barnes and I do feel like we kind of won the offseason because we got Masai back and he's going to be our leader for a very long time with some very big ambitions for our organization going forward, so it's really hard to get me down on that.

Had we drafted Suggs there would be no angst and the summer would've been perfect. Now we have to hold on to our butts that Barnes works out.

The good news is Barnes is probably much less of a project than we think. He seems NBA ready and has that alpha dog mentality as well. I truly believe this draft is going to produce 5-6 All-Stars and Barnes and Suggs will be 2 of them.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#102 » by Jenga_tDot » Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:34 am

Barnes is the better playmaker but offensively its not close. Suggs is years ahead.
I wanted Suggs the entire draft but I really hope Masai and Barnes prove me wrong
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#103 » by Madhouse » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:49 am

The Raptors were not the only team sky high on Barnes. So I don't know why there would be angst. If Toronto picked Suggs and Barnes turned into a monster, I would be just as pissed.

When you are in the top 5 you pick the guy with the highest ceiling who will be great in 5,6 years. Suggs might very well do better for the first 2-3 years.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#104 » by tradejosehesux » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:57 am

Nice surprised by the ice cold takes itt.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#105 » by God Squad » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:01 am

Madhouse wrote:The Raptors were not the only team sky high on Barnes. So I don't know why there would be angst. If Toronto picked Suggs and Barnes turned into a monster, I would be just as pissed.

When you are in the top 5 you pick the guy with the highest ceiling who will be great in 5,6 years. Suggs might very well do better for the first 2-3 years.

Exactly, If Suggs turns into athletic Jrue/Lowry (which is a star IMO) vs Barnes who turns into Kawhi/Jumper Simmons we'd lose our collective minds saying Masai fooked up. This could sound dumb, but after one summer league game I see what Masai and others see in Barnes. IMO he was that impressive for someone as raw on offense as he is. I'm fully aware he's a project and they'll be lots of growing pains, but I see it. Even from watching Suggs, Green, and even Mobley I see it. I see what had everyone so enamored with them and their potential.

Cade is the one that kind of left a sour taste in my mouth. Looks way smaller than advertised, turnover machine and couldn't turn the corner or blow past a pylon. I guess it's the hype didn't match the eye test or production. Hope he bounces back next game, but I think it's only going to get worse for him on Realgm going against Green who is clearly NBA ready in terms of offense.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#106 » by RoyceDa59 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:04 am

I would draft Scottie 10 times out of 10.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#107 » by God Squad » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:04 am

Mobley's going to take sometime, but we all knew this going into the draft. He was moving very well on the perimeter and effecting shots with his length. But what didn't sit well with me is that Sengun thoroughly looked like the better C even though he plays ground-bound. It made me temper my expectations ever so slightly with Mobley and landing on the Cavaliers doesn't help his cause at all.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#108 » by God Squad » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:06 am

I'm firmly in the Scotty Barnes BPA camp!

I see what Masai and others see, the potential is real.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#109 » by anotherhomer » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:40 am

God Squad wrote:I'm firmly in the Scotty Barnes BPA camp!

I see what Masai and others see, the potential is real.


BPA in terms of potential....
but very risky to pass on a guy very much likely to be a Jrue 2.0/Billups

that said, Raps organization is invested in getting scottie barnes to improve his offense
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#110 » by FluLikeSymptoms » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:46 am

Hopefully by part 5-6 of this thread we’ll be feeling good.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#111 » by Oakvillehoops » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:20 pm

OhCanada1091 wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:Just think. If we had drafted Suggs, there wouldn't be all this doubt and hand wringing about Barnes. There wouldn't be a season long debate shaping up. We'd be thrilled with our new Kyle replacement, and Barnes would be another 6'8 athlete. Who might not shine on the inferior Magic the way Suggs will.

I'm not too sure Suggs shines in Toronto the way he's going to shine in Orlando. He would join the Raptors as the 4th option at best behind OG, Siakam, Van Vleet. Then you gotta take Trent into consideration and also your pretty much just giving up on Malachi who at this point in his development looks a bit more polished skill wise, while he will never be the physical athlete Suggs is.

Suggs says some odd stuff sometimes too about leadership and being able to lead veterans. Like after this game he was talking about pulling guys aside in Summer League and telling them where they need to be. Bruh, these guys want your shots lol. Thats all great, its what he should be doing, but I don't see why he has to go tell the postgame interviewer how he was pulling guys aside and telling them their role. Just seems like a corny thing to do.

I'd imagine he would get iced out by Freddy and Siakam doing things like that and would not be good for team chemistry. Either that or he would be humbled quickly. He's great for Orlando but I don't think Toronto would have been an excellent fit for him to do his thing.



That’s not at all what he said. They asked him about being a leader, and he said it’s different and with all new guys he needs to learn and figure out which of the guys he can lead by getting in their faces, and which guys respond to being pulled aside and talked to privately. Which is actually a very intelligent form of leadership to be concerned about what style gets a response out of someone
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#112 » by Indeed » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:34 pm

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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#113 » by flipside21 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:36 pm

I am going to love Scottie and what he does for the profile of this team, but watching Suggs I can't believe we let that guy go.

We haven't had a player like that in the backcourt since Vince.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#114 » by Harold_and_Kumar » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:47 pm

Oakvillehoops wrote:
OhCanada1091 wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:Just think. If we had drafted Suggs, there wouldn't be all this doubt and hand wringing about Barnes. There wouldn't be a season long debate shaping up. We'd be thrilled with our new Kyle replacement, and Barnes would be another 6'8 athlete. Who might not shine on the inferior Magic the way Suggs will.

I'm not too sure Suggs shines in Toronto the way he's going to shine in Orlando. He would join the Raptors as the 4th option at best behind OG, Siakam, Van Vleet. Then you gotta take Trent into consideration and also your pretty much just giving up on Malachi who at this point in his development looks a bit more polished skill wise, while he will never be the physical athlete Suggs is.

Suggs says some odd stuff sometimes too about leadership and being able to lead veterans. Like after this game he was talking about pulling guys aside in Summer League and telling them where they need to be. Bruh, these guys want your shots lol. Thats all great, its what he should be doing, but I don't see why he has to go tell the postgame interviewer how he was pulling guys aside and telling them their role. Just seems like a corny thing to do.

I'd imagine he would get iced out by Freddy and Siakam doing things like that and would not be good for team chemistry. Either that or he would be humbled quickly. He's great for Orlando but I don't think Toronto would have been an excellent fit for him to do his thing.



That’s not at all what he said. They asked him about being a leader, and he said it’s different and with all new guys he needs to learn and figure out which of the guys he can lead by getting in their faces, and which guys respond to being pulled aside and talked to privately. Which is actually a very intelligent form of leadership to be concerned about what style gets a response out of someone


I get what you're saying, but I agree with OhCanada.

I actually think it's a sneaky reason the Raptors didn't draft him. He has an arrogance about him that's definitely gotten him to this point and will likely make him a very good player in the NBA, but he'll need to reign it in as well. When he starts getting more talent around him not everyone is going to react well to it, and it may not be conducive to winning unless he has the talent to back it up. I get some Westbrook vibes from him at times, and not the good Westbrook, the one who's arrogance allows him to shoot playoff games away. Maybe I'm wrong and it becomes a more a Lillard-like quiet confidence, but that's a risk in my mind.

My own preference both in my career and playing competitive sports, is to work with the Barnes-type who is humble, but exudes confidence and people gravitate towards him naturally. It feels far more organic and he's also built the rapport and relationship to knock people down a peg without it killing their confidence.

In my mind, as soon as you need to tell people you're the leader, you're probably not the real leader.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#115 » by Gavin_TDThree » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:29 pm

Sandman88 wrote:Suggs a -20 at the end of regulation and was clanking. Mans got outplayed by Kyle Guy


He showed flashes for sure. I can see him having a lot of ups and downs this year

Some decent clips I saw of him:

His handles still need to tighten up. It lacked the smoothness that I expected


His shooting form looks real solid though. I remember reading that this was an area of development for him

from 3


mid range



I can definitely see the George Hill comparisons. However, as other posters noted, it's easier to find a guard than it is a 6'8 player that profiles the way Barnes does.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#116 » by Oakvillehoops » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:33 pm

Harold_and_Kumar wrote:
Oakvillehoops wrote:
OhCanada1091 wrote:I'm not too sure Suggs shines in Toronto the way he's going to shine in Orlando. He would join the Raptors as the 4th option at best behind OG, Siakam, Van Vleet. Then you gotta take Trent into consideration and also your pretty much just giving up on Malachi who at this point in his development looks a bit more polished skill wise, while he will never be the physical athlete Suggs is.

Suggs says some odd stuff sometimes too about leadership and being able to lead veterans. Like after this game he was talking about pulling guys aside in Summer League and telling them where they need to be. Bruh, these guys want your shots lol. Thats all great, its what he should be doing, but I don't see why he has to go tell the postgame interviewer how he was pulling guys aside and telling them their role. Just seems like a corny thing to do.

I'd imagine he would get iced out by Freddy and Siakam doing things like that and would not be good for team chemistry. Either that or he would be humbled quickly. He's great for Orlando but I don't think Toronto would have been an excellent fit for him to do his thing.



That’s not at all what he said. They asked him about being a leader, and he said it’s different and with all new guys he needs to learn and figure out which of the guys he can lead by getting in their faces, and which guys respond to being pulled aside and talked to privately. Which is actually a very intelligent form of leadership to be concerned about what style gets a response out of someone


I get what you're saying, but I agree with OhCanada.

I actually think it's a sneaky reason the Raptors didn't draft him. He has an arrogance about him that's definitely gotten him to this point and will likely make him a very good player in the NBA, but he'll need to reign it in as well. When he starts getting more talent around him not everyone is going to react well to it, and it may not be conducive to winning unless he has the talent to back it up. I get some Westbrook vibes from him at times, and not the good Westbrook, the one who's arrogance allows him to shoot playoff games away. Maybe I'm wrong and it becomes a more a Lillard-like quiet confidence, but that's a risk in my mind.

My own preference both in my career and playing competitive sports, is to work with the Barnes-type who is humble, but exudes confidence and people gravitate towards him naturally. It feels far more organic and he's also built the rapport and relationship to knock people down a peg without it killing their confidence.

In my mind, as soon as you need to tell people you're the leader, you're probably not the real leader.


I mean he’s not out there just claiming to be the leader. People keep giving him that title and he just answers their questions. Different opinions though, if I draft a top 5 pick, I expect them to take control of my team and play the superstar in all ways. If you’re not a little bit arrogant, you’re probably not a super star.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#117 » by djsunyc » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:33 pm

there's a lot of hypocritical feelings by the pro-suggs crowd.

many of them are willing to trade a known quantity like siakam for draft picks (unknowns) b/c the mystery behind the closed door is more tantalizing than what you have in front of you - an all star quality player who was the #2 usage guy on a chip team.

yet they are very upset that we chose barnes (the unknown w/ crazy potential) instead of suggs b/c suggs to them was the known commodity.

two opposing feelings on display.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#118 » by arbsn » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:36 pm

Suggs is an insanely good player. I’m a huge fan of him regardless of us not picking him.

We will almost certainly regret taking him this year. Maybe not in 5 years. I think he was a no brainer pick and Masai and co decided to be cute. Time will tell.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#119 » by ItsDanger » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:36 pm

Suggs will be a good player, not sure if some just want to justify our pick of Barnes. But these are really quite different players. The value of Barnes will be seen against top wing scorers.
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Re: The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread 

Post#120 » by SalamiNcheese » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:38 pm

This site sucks. I had a long post but the site crashed on my mobile and I lost it all...

Anyone my tldr is Barnes with he difference maker and make everyone around him better. I am not sure green and Suggs will do that yet. I don’t watch Suggs but green looked like James harden. Can ge actually win though or is he going to just look good like Westbrook’s, beals, Lavines, Irving’s. I rather have the leonard, butlers, lowrys on my team over the Melos.

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