Has it not become overwhelmingly clear (even to management) it's time to blow this up?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The next time you think about tanking, look at yourself in the mirror and think about this...Jalen Suggs is a career .229 three point shooter. Just imagine if we listened to these people.

but the 8th overall pick in the draft is the future man!

It's sad, he's already getting labeled as a bust. The draft's a crap shoot.

[Los_29]

The next time you think about tanking, look at yourself in the mirror and think about this...Jalen Suggs is a career .229 three point shooter. Just imagine if we listened to these people.

but the 8th overall pick in the draft is the future man!

Everyone is a future superstar in the draft. The draft sells hope then reality kicks in. LOL.

[ItsDanger]

Good C's can provide a different type of spacing. But this roster has multiple problems.

[Mikistan]

Imagine the raptors reality without Barnes

[KL78192020]

Again showing your failed comprehension of what you're reading & watching with no actual understanding in the differences in roster construction that is REQUIRED to make it work ie/ BOS has MUCH better perimeter shooters all around as did Utah when they had Gobert & as the TWolves don't and exactly why they are struggling but stay racking up those Ls lol.

Sidebar, none of that should be considered a personal attack Duff, I'm literally pointing to a failed comprehension to understand the differences in roster construction that is at the core of a horribly flawed argument.

ok you win, my lack of comprehension is the issue.

Finally something we can all agree on

All he's saying is we need Jokic on this team and we'll be fine, pretty simple man, then we're easily a contender.

[KL78192020]

The next time you think about tanking, look at yourself in the mirror and think about this...Jalen Suggs is a career .229 three point shooter. Just imagine if we listened to these people.

but the 8th overall pick in the draft is the future man!

It's sad, he's already getting labeled as a bust. The draft's a crap shoot.

If the draft is a crap shoot why were anti tankers not willing to trade a bunch of picks for a guy like Mitchell.

[Spates]

Imagine the raptors reality without Barnes

We'd be obligated to go all-in and be in a bidding war for Jakob.

[KL78192020]

The next time you think about tanking, look at yourself in the mirror and think about this...Jalen Suggs is a career .229 three point shooter. Just imagine if we listened to these people.

but the 8th overall pick in the draft is the future man!

Everyone is a future superstar in the draft. The draft sells hope then reality kicks in. LOL.

Thad Young sells hope! Those leadership qualities really coming in handy this year! Look how great the team is doing without tanking! Better than OKC!

[mademan]

The draft is absolutely a crap shoot, the issue is this team doesnt have much going for it. We got 1 real star, 1 guy with good value in OG and 1 blue chip young talent....and theyre all forwards who will absolutely have trouble playing together.

It's not about tanking. We arent good, everyone is gonna want a raise and we have a starting lineup that doesnt fit. Something has to give, and tanking at this point is just looking like the best option. And sooner than later, a decision will need to be made between OG/Siakam/Barnes cause the 3 of them dont fit moving forward (and i honestly dont think Barnes/Siakam fits until Barnes develops a respectable shot)

[Los_29]

but the 8th overall pick in the draft is the future man!

Everyone is a future superstar in the draft. The draft sells hope then reality kicks in. LOL.

Thad Young sells hope! Those leadership qualities really coming in handy this year! Look how great the team is doing without tanking! Better than OKC!

Luckily we got him for free then. Masai and Bobby nailed it. They said there was very little difference between guys at 15 and guys at 35. Turned out to be right. Don't think they are losing any sleep over not drafting Malaki Branham and Christian Braun. LOL.

[agkagk]

but the 8th overall pick in the draft is the future man!

It's sad, he's already getting labeled as a bust. The draft's a crap shoot.

If the draft is a crap shoot why were anti tankers not willing to trade a bunch of picks for a guy like Mitchell.

using the recency bias of the raptors realgm chat forum to justify an opinion isnt the best measure.

spoiler warning: the same muppets that didnt want to trade barnes for kd or picks for mitchell are the same muppets calling for freds head and proposing we trade everyone for picks in the 20s.

PS: barnes + og for kd was a no brainer.

masai's lost his mind the last 12 months.

[KL78192020]

Everyone is a future superstar in the draft. The draft sells hope then reality kicks in. LOL.

Thad Young sells hope! Those leadership qualities really coming in handy this year! Look how great the team is doing without tanking! Better than OKC!

Luckily we got him for free then. Masai and Bobby nailed it. They said there was very little difference between guys at 15 and guys at 35. Turned out to be right. Don't think they are losing any sleep over not drafting Malaki Branham and Christian Braun. LOL.

Yea I mean theres no difference, Raptors are so great they are better than those tankers in OKC.

[mademan]

Everyone is a future superstar in the draft. The draft sells hope then reality kicks in. LOL.

Thad Young sells hope! Those leadership qualities really coming in handy this year! Look how great the team is doing without tanking! Better than OKC!

Luckily we got him for free then. Masai and Bobby nailed it. They said there was very little difference between guys at 15 and guys at 35. Turned out to be right. Don't think they are losing any sleep over not drafting Malaki Branham and Christian Braun. LOL.

Koloko is a G-league player while Walker Kessler is actually good.

But ya, we didnt miss out at all dropping 15 spots in the draft for a nothing player who was gonna get bought out. It was a terrible move then and even if they ranked the same, moving down in the draft for a 15 min role aging role player who was getting cut is ridiculous. There is no defending that move. The best you can say about it is that we didnt lose out too much, lol

[raptor jesus]

I assume they are aware, but it takes two to make a trade - and the Raps could be holding out to maximize value as we approach the trade deadline. The risk in that is obviously winning too many games, but with the way this team is playing, and the upcoming sched, it's probably safe to wait it out.

[agkagk]

I assume they are aware, but it takes two to make a trade - and the Raps could be holding out to maximize value as we approach the trade deadline. The risk in that is obviously winning too many games, but with the way this team is playing, and the upcoming sched, it's probably safe to wait it out.

we've been losing badly and consistently to teams that were starting 3 or 4 bench pieces.

dont worry, we got this!

[OakleyDokely]

I think most people here are actually on the same page, posters are just explaining themselves slightly differently.

There aren't only two choices here. There's a lot you can do in-between gutting the team to its bare bones and keep limping along with the same roster.

If you polled the board, I'd say the vast majority would agree that you need to deal with the pending FA's immediately (GTJ/VV). If you don't intend to sign them long term, they need to be moved. You also have listen to offers on Siakam/OG, but you only deal them if you get a great package.

The people who believe that the team should be gutted down to just Scottie and those who believe that no changes to the core are necessary are a very small minority.

[Dalek]

The next time you think about tanking, look at yourself in the mirror and think about this...Jalen Suggs is a career .229 three point shooter. Just imagine if we listened to these people.

but the 8th overall pick in the draft is the future man!

It's sad, he's already getting labeled as a bust. The draft's a crap shoot.

I would not give up on Suggs so early in the process. I mean, Markelle Fultz looks like a legit quality starting PG and is looking more like the guy he was supposed to be.

Suggs has had a number of injuries stall his career, but he is still without a doubt has the size and athleticism to be a starting PG. He is a very good defender, and just needs to keep developing his offense.

The hard part about developing on a constantly tanking team is there can be a lot of overlap in your position with young guards who need minutes. It has to be hard to be great with Fultz back and Cole Anthony playing well.

[Dalek]

After so many post-championship years we have a bit of perspective on management. They managed this mediocrity since the title.

They have not gone into the luxury tax once to seriously pursue any title hopes.

They haven't made any trades to take a step back or show any sort of direction towards building their prospect/draft assets.

Instead they have preached organic growth the entire time and worked with Nurse to construct this weird roster of forwards with overlapping skillsets and no guards with rim attacking ability and zero viable Cs.

To me, the clear change is needed from the top-down. They have to dump the front-office and Nurse. Bobby and Nurse have managed to ruin this team with their utter nonsense approach which basically has amounted to this team being bottom five in the league overall.

We have good assets in Pascal, OG, Trent and FVV that need to be traded, but I want another front office doing that work. And I definitely don't want Nurse coaching the next crop of talent. I have to admit, he is such a smooth, straight-shooter that you can't help but hope the best with him, but his results have been pretty weak given the skilled players he has had.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

If the draft is a crap shoot why were anti tankers not willing to trade a bunch of picks for a guy like Mitchell.

The ask was too high, they got a monster haul. Trading with Ainge is like pulling teeth.

I would not give up on Suggs so early in the process. I mean, Markelle Fultz looks like a legit quality starting PG and is looking more like the guy he was supposed to be.

Suggs has had a number of injuries stall his career, but he is still without a doubt has the size and athleticism to be a starting PG. He is a very good defender, and just needs to keep developing his offense.

The hard part about developing on a constantly tanking team is there can be a lot of overlap in your position with young guards who need minutes. It has to be hard to be great with Fultz back and Cole Anthony playing well.

Oh, I totally agree. It's just the nature of the system though. History's full of these examples, sadly.

[DelAbbot]

Based on some of these responses I think we can keep this core together and win about 35-45 games a year for the next 5 years. And the posters who oppose to losing games this season / TANKING, will continue to believe this core is 1/2 piece away from truly contending, and never complain about not making past 2nd round in the next 5 years.

Then natural progression of this core over those 5 years, will end up with bloated contracts and age-related declining performance, and we naturally end up in the high lottery from losing 50+ games a season. When we select lottery level prospects and become good again after another 3-4 years, the same posters will celebrate that we became good without TANKING