2023 Draft Discussion Part 7 (Thurs June 22 @ 8pm)

[gha4life]

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Man these guys are soo huge even lu dory, on the court they look soo small

[billy_hoyle]

Circumstances play a factor too.

Charlotte has Bridges and Melo coming back. They were a playoff team previously with that core..and they don’t want to trade their pick.

Portland…Dame.

Houston…picks to OKC.

Detroit…been bad for years now with a core of youth already.

Yeah it has way less to do with the draft itself and just more about the specific teams.

Teams don't turn down the chance to draft young superstars. These picks don't move that often.

The teams in these positions have alot of young talent already. I agree with the other posters, I don't think teams wanting to trade out is an indictment of the talent available, it's purely circumstantial. Like Charlotte and Portland have their best players as PGs when the clear top talent is a PG. Sometimes you don't want to select redundant talent for fear of suppressing value and trade leverage.

Teams are willing to trade these guys, but for all NBA, and all defensive players.

The draft is always difficult to identify the elite talent, but it's historically always there.

[DreamTeam09]

2yrs ago, Mikey Williams vs Scoot Henderson, Scoot finished with 36 in a close victory, Mikey had 28

Mikey will be at Memphis this yr

Watch on YouTube

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

2yrs ago, Mikey Williams vs Scoot Henderson, Scoot finished with 36 in a close victory, Mikey had 28

Mikey will be at Memphis this yr

Watch on YouTube

By chance I just immediately fast forwarded to 8:15 in the video and it basically is why Scoot shouldn't go 2nd overall in a nutshell.

[deeps6x]

Teams will defend Amen like they did McCaw or Simmons. You don't need to bother with them on the perimeter.

Amen is going to be a borderline top 3 athlete in the NBA, which even Simmons couldn't claim. Giving him open space to operate along the perimeter shouldn't be that effective in theory, you're just inviting him to attack the rim which is his best skill at this point. The problem for the Raptors is that the lack of shooting is going to clog the paint and limit his effectiveness.

I think the discussion is "Is he athletic enough that his deficiencies won't stop him being a positive player and how confident are we can make him an average shooter?". There are always a couple guys in the league at a given time who are so athletically gifted that it doesn't matter if the other team knows exactly what's coming. Anyone who believes in Amen becoming a star is probably putting him into that group.

I spent more time yesterday going over advanced stats and looking at more footage of the Thompsons, I don't even know how the hell to grade them anymore. Maybe my Michael Vick comparison is accurate and not in a good way since Vick ultimately was a huge bust.

I'm worried about Amen even more than Ausar right now as I have started to question everything with them. They both rarely jack up shots when they're guarded by another player. Their shooting is bad enough when they're open, the fact they don't even try to shoot or just flat out struggle to score while being defended on the perimeter actually screams bust. If they have the ball in their hands late in the shot clock and are nowhere near the rim it's game over.

If the game of basketball were played exclusively in transition they should both be top 10 picks. Everything with Amen is at the rim, at the rim, at the rim, at the rim. Once NBA teams sag off what the hell is he going to do?

Interesting take on them. I wonder if Masai sees them the same way.

I watched high school games and it was the same story, everything at the rim and if they can't get there they overdribble or pick up the dribble pass and then reset to try to get to the rim again. That **** won't work in the NBA and they're already 20.5 years old and have been playing like that for years and years. If you draft them you need to rewire how they approach the game and given how long they have been playing this way with zero improvement in the shooting department the risk far outweighs the reward of magically getting them to be anything more than guys who try to pressure the rim in the halfcourt.

At the end of the day these kids are sick athletes, have great handles and are willing passers and defenders. I thought that alone should validate them as NBA prospects. But I'm trying to think to myself about how street ball players can also have sick skills and would never survive in the NBA. It's possible that because of his projected draft position we will see early flashes and highlight reel plays from Amen because of the compulsion a franchise will likely have to give him burn but that ultimately when we look at his stat line he'll be shooting 41/25/68 with ok contributions in other areas but a **** AST-TO ratio since he is turnover prone and ultimately he just fades away into the night sky. I don't even know if Udoka could save Amen's ass.

Ultimately the Thompson haters are beyond justified in their concerns and after watching their high school tape and considering the circumstances I might have to join you. I'll still root for them because a guy like Amen panning out would be great for the league but yeah.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[TronoWrappers]

Has Masai ever made a draft night trade? Seems we get a lot of smoke each year and it never gets to the finish line.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

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Masai knows a thing or two about point guards who rarely finish at the rim in the halfcourt

[ATLTimekeeper]

So Matt Moore confirms that Washington screwed this Beal thing up badly from the start. Went in asking for #3 and is now trying to insist on Duncan Robinson

Masai wants Scoot. Don't blame him. He's a franchise personality. Charlotte is bluffing Scoot to try and get an offer for #2, but they want Miller. Masai calls bluff and deals directly with Portland and we'll have Scoot + Simons, imo. Charlotte deals #2 to NOP, and there's no deal for the Raptors with Portland.

[CoinTossRoss31]

Realistically what would be our offer for #2?

Does it have to include Scottie?

Pascal?
OG + Firsts?

[ItsDanger]

Has Masai ever made a draft night trade? Seems we get a lot of smoke each year and it never gets to the finish line.

Vasquez for a 1st & 2nd in 2015. But that was 8 years ago.

[ArthurVandelay]

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I don’t know what it is, but Scoot doesn’t excite me at all. I think it is the lack of a 3. If Scottie and Poeltl weren’t the 4/5 combo, I’d be more interested. But I can’t see starting 3 guys with little to no range.

Now…flipping 2 to NO does excite me.

[bboyskinnylegs]

the fact that we've been mentioned in discussions for #2, #3, and #4 is good. I guess we'll find out how real any of this is soon enough.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

If Scottie is a guy who has come out along with his trainer about operating from the elbows and the elbow jumpshot is clearly looking like a part of his arsenal why would we add a point guard who hasn't demonstrated the ability to space the floor whose biggest strength is his jump shooting from the elbows? Makes no sense to me.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Also WOW this is the most damning statement on the Raps FO I've ever read:

"Speaking of Anunoby, there is a growing sense among executives who have called the Raptors (albeit with some caution) that Pascal Siakam may be easier to deal with than Anunoby currently. One savvy executive did mention that he felt that was a means to judge market value if and when the Raptors do decide to trade Anunoby. However, it’s fair to say front offices are pretty worn out on the attempts by Toronto to get “blood from a stone” as one executive put it at the deadline in any deal. Multiple sources have described the Raptors as frustrating to deal with. So why keep calling? “There are only 29 teams to work with.”

[Syd-TK3]

Circumstances play a factor too.

Charlotte has Bridges and Melo coming back. They were a playoff team previously with that core..and they don’t want to trade their pick.

Portland…Dame.

Houston…picks to OKC.

Detroit…been bad for years now with a core of youth already.

Yeah it has way less to do with the draft itself and just more about the specific teams.

Teams don't turn down the chance to draft young superstars. These picks don't move that often.

The picks haven't moved yet though as of right now it's all discussion but for specific teams in certain situations

[ATLTimekeeper]

Also WOW this is the most damning statement on the Raps FO I've ever read:

"Speaking of Anunoby, there is a growing sense among executives who have called the Raptors (albeit with some caution) that Pascal Siakam may be easier to deal with than Anunoby currently. One savvy executive did mention that he felt that was a means to judge market value if and when the Raptors do decide to trade Anunoby. However, it’s fair to say front offices are pretty worn out on the attempts by Toronto to get “blood from a stone” as one executive put it at the deadline in any deal. Multiple sources have described the Raptors as frustrating to deal with. So why keep calling? “There are only 29 teams to work with.”

You should have read to the end of the quote

[Tortiglioni]

If the Raptors trade up to 2 or 3, it's to take Miller, not Scoot.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Yeah it has way less to do with the draft itself and just more about the specific teams.

Teams don't turn down the chance to draft young superstars. These picks don't move that often.

The picks haven't moved yet though as of right now it's all discussion but for specific teams in certain situations

Fair enough. I'm not implying these teams would be right to move their picks, but there isn't a 'can't miss' feel at the top which has led them to be amenable to trade discussions.