Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[Chalky_White]

Right now it's very clear where Barnes needs to improve and that's what the rest of the season will highlight.

He needs to work on his handles and develop a comfortable go to move that makes him confident enough to just shoot it rather than pass it back (something in the mid-range). The offensive scoring mentality also needs to change - he's overpassing and maybe part of that is him not feeling confident in his limited offensive arsenal. I always felt his midrange is what will really open up his game (not the 3) and I hope that's where the focus is this offseason.

Get in the gym again and keep getting better. But over the rest of the season he still needs to have more of an aggressive scoring mentality. He can't keep overpassing. He's overpassing and overthinking to the point where he's having us lose possessions.

Also, chill lol. Players get better. This isn't his peak. Some of the comments in here are so childish. How will some of you get through these years of losing? He's not a guy who came into their league as an elite shooter. He had and has tons of areas he can get better. The pick was a slam dunk. He has been the best in his class and imo also has the highest potential.

Feel the same. I think him taking the Embiid approach when it comes to the midrange would serve him well. Embiid has always been really good but he really took a leap offensively when he increased the frequency of his midrange attempts. Starting in 2020-2021, he started shooting midrange shots at an almost 2:1 ratio compared to threes and it made him unguardable. We remember Gasol holding him to that 0pt game at the start of the 2019 season, he's really evolved his game since then.

Scottie this year is at the opposite end with a 2:1 3pt to mid-range ratio and i think its making him easier to defend. During his rookie year he was at a 1:1 ratio.

Hopefully the team and Scottie realize the benefit of this approach sooner rather than later and adjust.

[sidsid]

Barnes has that Lowry quality where he can shoot 4-16 but still provide a positive impact because he does so many different things well, from the passing, the rebounding, the steals, the blocks, the POA defense. That's what really separates him from a lot of other guys, especially around his age.

Some people need to come to the realization that he isn't going to be a KD or Kawhi like offensive force. That's never been his game at any level. He will have his moments offensively, but his mindset is that of a playmaker and secondary creator, and there's nothing wrong with that. Just need to put the right players around him.

Yeah he can easily be the best player on a team and not be the highest scorer. We are right back where we have been for the last 10 years outside 1 year - looking for that real #1 option.

He's not Lebron or Magic, so i want to say that right off the top, but he has a similar mindset as those two guys. Magic's and Lebron's first instinct wasn't to score the ball like it is for a guy like Curry or KD. Lebron's and Magic's first instinct was to create the best possible shot, even if they didn't take it. They'd obviously step in offensively if they needed to, but it wasn't all about creating their own shot.

Barnes is going to drift in and out of games offensively, especially if he has a teammate or two going. But he has shown the ability to take over when he needs to. Is he consistently doing it? Nope, but I don't expect a finish product in year 3.

LeBron was absolutely roasted early in his career as a choker who was afraid of the spotlight because of his passing tendencies. It's just what great playmakers do. He still has some insane passes in his bag at his age. He learned to balance his offense as he got older, and after that first Heat season debacle there hasn't been that criticism since.

You're not going to need much help to be a good contender if Barnes puts it all together with a limited bag. Giannis did it with a couple fringe all stars.

[Chalky_White]

Barnes has that Lowry quality where he can shoot 4-16 but still provide a positive impact because he does so many different things well, from the passing, the rebounding, the steals, the blocks, the POA defense. That's what really separates him from a lot of other guys, especially around his age.

Some people need to come to the realization that he isn't going to be a KD or Kawhi like offensive force. That's never been his game at any level. He will have his moments offensively, but his mindset is that of a playmaker and secondary creator, and there's nothing wrong with that. Just need to put the right players around him.

Yeah he can easily be the best player on a team and not be the highest scorer. We are right back where we have been for the last 10 years outside 1 year - looking for that real #1 option.

He's not Lebron or Magic, so i want to say that right off the top, but he has a similar mindset as those two guys. Magic's and Lebron's first instinct wasn't to score the ball like it is for a guy like Curry or KD. Lebron's and Magic's first instinct was to create the best possible shot, even if they didn't take it. They'd obviously step in offensively if they needed to, but it wasn't all about creating their own shot.

Barnes is going to drift in and out of games offensively, especially if he has a teammate or two going. But he has shown the ability to take over when he needs to. Is he consistently doing it? Nope, but I don't expect a finish product in year 3.

Well said. Lebron entered the league as a playmaker first and took several seasons before he developed that killer instinct. Its why most fans had Kobe over him for the longest even though Lebron was more well rounded and way more efficient.

[Raps in 4]

Yeah he can easily be the best player on a team and not be the highest scorer. We are right back where we have been for the last 10 years outside 1 year - looking for that real #1 option.

He's not Lebron or Magic, so i want to say that right off the top, but he has a similar mindset as those two guys. Magic's and Lebron's first instinct wasn't to score the ball like it is for a guy like Curry or KD. Lebron's and Magic's first instinct was to create the best possible shot, even if they didn't take it. They'd obviously step in offensively if they needed to, but it wasn't all about creating their own shot.

Barnes is going to drift in and out of games offensively, especially if he has a teammate or two going. But he has shown the ability to take over when he needs to. Is he consistently doing it? Nope, but I don't expect a finish product in year 3.

Well said. Lebron entered the league as a playmaker first and took several seasons before he developed that killer instinct. Its why most fans had Kobe over him for the longest even though Lebron was more well rounded and way more efficient.

He was still deferring too much as late as 2011 (at 27 years old). In the 2011 finals, he averaged 17.8 PPG, with Wade and Bosh both outscoring him in that series (since he was playing the pass-first PG role).

[Chalky_White]

He's not Lebron or Magic, so i want to say that right off the top, but he has a similar mindset as those two guys. Magic's and Lebron's first instinct wasn't to score the ball like it is for a guy like Curry or KD. Lebron's and Magic's first instinct was to create the best possible shot, even if they didn't take it. They'd obviously step in offensively if they needed to, but it wasn't all about creating their own shot.

Barnes is going to drift in and out of games offensively, especially if he has a teammate or two going. But he has shown the ability to take over when he needs to. Is he consistently doing it? Nope, but I don't expect a finish product in year 3.

Yeah he is going to 100% be fine - but I take issue with people who are CONVINCED he is an elite offensive talent. The toxicity of this place from (mostly) Scottie super stans is just crazy. Especially when you know he is (PROBABLY) not going to reach those insane heights and those same people are gonna turn on him.

I think even his biggest fans now concede that his handle isn't good enough to be the main guy that runs the offense. And maybe he's never the main guy that runs the offense for the whole game. But even in crunch time....his handle is too loose to be that guy. I say that while acknowledging his handle is above average for his size. It's just that most players his size don't even sniff at running an offense. In anycase...if we could choose a skillset to boost by 5 to 10% during the off-season....his handle is a good choice.

The other thing that might rub some people the wrong way....his conditioning needs to be better. He consistently looks like the oldest player on the floor for us in terms of jump in his step and spring in his jump. There's too many stretches where he's kinda lumbering and laboring. The whole 'one of the last ones to arrive and one of the first ones to leave' at practices might be a factor in this. His diet and daily regiment are factors too. If he looks like THIS at 22 then what's he gonna look like at 30?

When Demar was in his 3rd year there were multiple beat-writer articles praising his work ethic, his off-season training and his gym-rat routines. It's basically radio-silence on these topics about Barnes. Ppl think our beat-writers have a bias against him...but they're the ones who are around the team and know this type of stuff. Derozan recently was on the Paul George podcast and they spoke about how young players aren't putting the same amount of work in compared to the previous generations.

In anycase...it's my opinion that Barnes shouldn't look this much like an old man during stretches of games. He's in good physical shape but his cardio just doesn't seem adequate.

So in light of all the leaps he's made both offensively AND defensively this season (his defensive improvements don't get talked about enough)....my opinion is that ball-handling and cardio are two things kinda holding him back. It's possible he might even benefit by slimming down a bit.

Ya, Chris Vernon mentioned on his podcast that he saw him in Memphis when we played the Grizzlies and observed the same. Said he's gotten much bigger since he came in the league and seems slower as a result.

I think playing him so much as a small ball 5 as a rookie convinced him to get bigger. Now that we're going to be using him as a 4 mostly i think he should slim down. Should help his quickness and transition speed overall.

[HumbleRen]

Yeah he can easily be the best player on a team and not be the highest scorer. We are right back where we have been for the last 10 years outside 1 year - looking for that real #1 option.

He's not Lebron or Magic, so i want to say that right off the top, but he has a similar mindset as those two guys. Magic's and Lebron's first instinct wasn't to score the ball like it is for a guy like Curry or KD. Lebron's and Magic's first instinct was to create the best possible shot, even if they didn't take it. They'd obviously step in offensively if they needed to, but it wasn't all about creating their own shot.

Barnes is going to drift in and out of games offensively, especially if he has a teammate or two going. But he has shown the ability to take over when he needs to. Is he consistently doing it? Nope, but I don't expect a finish product in year 3.

Well said. Lebron entered the league as a playmaker first and took several seasons before he developed that killer instinct. Its why most fans had Kobe over him for the longest even though Lebron was more well rounded and way more efficient.

Lebron was a playmaker first, sure but he still averaged near 30 in his 2nd year and that was in the era where there was only like 10-15 dudes averaging 20 or more.

The issue was his lack of an in between game and killer instinct, not being a playmaker first.

[ItsDanger]

Scottie sees the play happen quickly and is a good help defender. Build the team accordingly and stop forcing him to do too much.

[MainEvent]

Barnes has that Lowry quality where he can shoot 4-16 but still provide a positive impact because he does so many different things well, from the passing, the rebounding, the steals, the blocks, the POA defense. That's what really separates him from a lot of other guys, especially around his age.

Some people need to come to the realization that he isn't going to be a KD or Kawhi like offensive force. That's never been his game at any level. He will have his moments offensively, but his mindset is that of a playmaker and secondary creator, and there's nothing wrong with that. Just need to put the right players around him.

100%

[tdotrep2]

He needs to start trusting the middy. On post ups as well, if he backs down a shorter guy he should try some post fades. Now is the time to start letting these fly.

[ATLTimekeeper]

LeBron was never a passive player Some kids are showing their age. Passing doesn't = passive. LeBron's handle for his size and frame is unparalleled, and he was aggressively attacking from the day he stepped onto and NBA court. I watched him courtside as a rookie, before the roids, and he got everywhere he wanted. This year Duncan Robinson was able to turn Scottie 2X before the free throw line.

To his credit it looks like Scottie is focussed on slowing the half court down and overhandling a little more to help himself get into more dangerous positions. I actually didn't mind his game last night. He was getting where he needed to be and making good reads, not throwing possessions away. I think he got hacked a lot and the refs were trying to get Houston to make a game of it and his jumper was a little flat.

[Scase]

He's not Lebron or Magic, so i want to say that right off the top, but he has a similar mindset as those two guys. Magic's and Lebron's first instinct wasn't to score the ball like it is for a guy like Curry or KD. Lebron's and Magic's first instinct was to create the best possible shot, even if they didn't take it. They'd obviously step in offensively if they needed to, but it wasn't all about creating their own shot.

Barnes is going to drift in and out of games offensively, especially if he has a teammate or two going. But he has shown the ability to take over when he needs to. Is he consistently doing it? Nope, but I don't expect a finish product in year 3.

Well said. Lebron entered the league as a playmaker first and took several seasons before he developed that killer instinct. Its why most fans had Kobe over him for the longest even though Lebron was more well rounded and way more efficient.

He was still deferring too much as late as 2011 (at 27 years old). In the 2011 finals, he averaged 17.8 PPG, with Wade and Bosh both outscoring him in that series (since he was playing the pass-first PG role).

IMO 14ppg or 40ppg, doesn't matter as long as it leads to wins. I'd rather seeing him put up 17/8/8 and us walking teams over 25/10/10 and losing over and over.

People focus too much on the numbers and not the outcome, right now we're seeing how he can contribute even when he's not scoring. Seeing that at 22 has me worry free.

[Scase]

LeBron was never a passive player Some kids are showing their age. Passing doesn't = passive. LeBron's handle for his size and frame is unparalleled, and he was aggressively attacking from the day he stepped onto and NBA court. I watched him courtside as a rookie, before the roids, and he got everywhere he wanted. This year Duncan Robinson was able to turn Scottie 2X before the free throw line.

To his credit it looks like Scottie is focussed on slowing the half court down and overhandling a little more to help himself get into more dangerous positions. I actually didn't mind his game last night. He was getting where he needed to be and making good reads, not throwing possessions away. I think he got hacked a lot and the refs were trying to get Houston to make a game of it and his jumper was a little flat.

His shot was definitely not falling, and the refs were blind, but you're absolutely right. He was constantly in the right place, making great reads leading to plenty of open shots. Watching him make a read to RJ cutting, and then RJ seeing Jak rolling was fantastic to watch. Hockey assists don't show up on the stat sheets, but he has them in droves.

[TimeForChange]

Read on Twitter

KO smarter than the majority of this forum

[LoveMyRaps]

Slowly turning into a triple double machine before our eyes.

[brownbobcat]

Barnes has that Lowry quality where he can shoot 4-16 but still provide a positive impact because he does so many different things well, from the passing, the rebounding, the steals, the blocks, the POA defense. That's what really separates him from a lot of other guys, especially around his age.

Some people need to come to the realization that he isn't going to be a KD or Kawhi like offensive force. That's never been his game at any level. He will have his moments offensively, but his mindset is that of a playmaker and secondary creator, and there's nothing wrong with that. Just need to put the right players around him.

Here's the thing - you can't do that. You cannot get caught in the trap of tailoring a team around a guy who is very, very good but not great. That doesn't mean you dump him, but the only way to success is finding a lot of other really talented players and hope they mesh.

So if Barnes can't take that next step, he needs to learn how to adjust to other guys just as much as they have to adjust to him. A weaker star cannot be the center of a powerful orbit.

[KP730]

Barnes has that Lowry quality where he can shoot 4-16 but still provide a positive impact because he does so many different things well, from the passing, the rebounding, the steals, the blocks, the POA defense. That's what really separates him from a lot of other guys, especially around his age.

Some people need to come to the realization that he isn't going to be a KD or Kawhi like offensive force. That's never been his game at any level. He will have his moments offensively, but his mindset is that of a playmaker and secondary creator, and there's nothing wrong with that. Just need to put the right players around him.

Here's the thing - you can't do that. You cannot get caught in the trap of tailoring a team around a guy who is very, very good but not great. That doesn't mean you dump him, but the only way to success is finding a lot of other really talented players and hope they mesh.

So if Barnes can't take that next step, he needs to learn how to adjust to other guys just as much as they have to adjust to him. A weaker star cannot be the center of a powerful orbit.

the raps have had many ‘very good but not great’ prospects the past decades, some of which they tried to build around and failed

I’m convinced Barnes is NOT one of those. Mischaracterizing him as such would be a costly mistake. this player is going to be Great

good thing is Masai is now building the roster accordingly

[PD28]

He needs to get to the FT line elbow a lot more with those mid rangers. Loving his chemistry with Gradey lately, def recognizes that Dick is automatic when you hit him on the curls.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

I don’t hate the moves - in terms of on the whole and the state of the team. Clearly, we moved on from NN era Raps. Absent of evaluating the return, we could do worse to be starting out with a guy like Barnes.

Impressive he could have a triple double in a back to back. A plus +1 in a 20 pt loss where he played big minutes. It’s up and down, but hopefully, something gels with this group that begins the start of the next era.

[Tha Cynic]

Keep forcing him into ballhandling duties. But also force him to be a scorer even if he feels uncomfortable with the defense (this is something we also need to focus on with Quickley). Those will help develop him for next season.

[ATLTimekeeper]

LeBron was never a passive player Some kids are showing their age. Passing doesn't = passive. LeBron's handle for his size and frame is unparalleled, and he was aggressively attacking from the day he stepped onto and NBA court. I watched him courtside as a rookie, before the roids, and he got everywhere he wanted. This year Duncan Robinson was able to turn Scottie 2X before the free throw line.

To his credit it looks like Scottie is focussed on slowing the half court down and overhandling a little more to help himself get into more dangerous positions. I actually didn't mind his game last night. He was getting where he needed to be and making good reads, not throwing possessions away. I think he got hacked a lot and the refs were trying to get Houston to make a game of it and his jumper was a little flat.

His shot was definitely not falling, and the refs were blind, but you're absolutely right. He was constantly in the right place, making great reads leading to plenty of open shots. Watching him make a read to RJ cutting, and then RJ seeing Jak rolling was fantastic to watch. Hockey assists don't show up on the stat sheets, but he has them in droves.

He was good again last night and the shots were falling. Averaging 13 drives the last two games. This is the number he needs to hit consistently the rest of the season.