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Chandan wrote:

Harry Palmer wrote:

Duffman100 wrote:
Because somehow we're still in a better spot than the Pistons. Despite them being years ahead of in the rebuild.

How are we in a better spot? Serious question. If the objective is the doldrums, maybe. But is it?

Some people ripped on the Magic last year calling them a poverty franchise.

I like that magic rebuild. They still don't have a true #1. They're gonna have to find a miracle trade to get it.

I've never been a blind tank nation supporter but in the current context, I think a tank makes a lot of sense.

Barnes is a star. Quickley, Barrett, Poeltl are average starters. The rest of the team will be either too young or completely useless. This is a fringe play-in team at best. I think they'll go into next season trying to win, fail and then tank hard starting sometime around the all-star break. Had they got a better return for Siakam, my opinion may have been different but now the correct course of action is pretty clear.

wegotthabeet wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

wegotthabeet wrote:
I don’t get this line of thinking at all. One does not preclude the other. OKC literally won less than 25 games two seasons ago. SGA just finished second in MVP voting. Is it no longer his team? Who did they draft who’s better? And there’s countless of other examples just like this.

First, we don't have Shae on the team. Maybe Barnes turns into that...but, that's not the direction if we're a sub 25W team again.

If we fail again, the best player on the team will be the guy we draft.

No. Not necessarily. I think Scottie has the potential to be a top 10 player in the league. Winning 25 games next year would not change my perception of his potential. He’s still young, the team is still young, but if they draft someone better than him that would be amazing. They’d have two young players with top 10 potential.

Scottie to me is half of a championship level core and they’re still looking for that other half/player.

Shae was in the MVP conversation at 24, he was putting up 25ppg at 23 years old.

If Scotties putting up 25+ we're not sub 25 wins. Maybe 30-35. If he reverts, that's a different story.

Unless they get injuries like this season, there's no way this team can tank for a top pick without some permanent mental damage to existing core. At this point, you have to let chips fall where they may, pray they somehow get lucky in the lottery or get really lucky in the draft wherever they may pick. Try to do the best you can with what you do have. And if within 2-3 years things don't click, do a hard reset. But if one of the top 3 gets long-term injuries, TANK!

Duffman100 wrote:

sidsid wrote:

Duffman100 wrote:Let's tank like the pistons and finish with the 5th pick again.

I'd rather tank like the Spurs, personally. Trade Jak and lose a bunch of games over the last 2 years. Seems to be working pretty well for them so far.

What's the difference between the Spurs and the pistons, hornets and wizards?

Got the right player and some lottery luck. Masai got the right guy when we got lottery luck at 4. I trust the FO to do it again. It's just frustrating that they don't trust themselves with the moves they made.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

wegotthabeet wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:First, we don't have Shae on the team. Maybe Barnes turns into that...but, that's not the direction if we're a sub 25W team again.

If we fail again, the best player on the team will be the guy we draft.

No. Not necessarily. I think Scottie has the potential to be a top 10 player in the league. Winning 25 games next year would not change my perception of his potential. He’s still young, the team is still young, but if they draft someone better than him that would be amazing. They’d have two young players with top 10 potential.

Scottie to me is half of a championship level core and they’re still looking for that other half/player.

Shae was in the MVP conversation at 24, he was putting up 25ppg at 23 years old.

If Scotties putting up 25+ we're not sub 25 wins. Maybe 30-35. If he reverts, that's a different story.

I would argue that Scottie had a more impressive year this year than SGA in 2022. And he was a year younger as well. SGA only played 56 games that year. If Scottie misses 20+ games we will be a 25 win team again. It’s not hard to pivot tank in the second half of a season.

I don’t get why people think we’re too talented to bottom out next year. It’s easy to finesse.

wegotthabeet wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

wegotthabeet wrote:
No. Not necessarily. I think Scottie has the potential to be a top 10 player in the league. Winning 25 games next year would not change my perception of his potential. He’s still young, the team is still young, but if they draft someone better than him that would be amazing. They’d have two young players with top 10 potential.

Scottie to me is half of a championship level core and they’re still looking for that other half/player.

Shae was in the MVP conversation at 24, he was putting up 25ppg at 23 years old.

If Scotties putting up 25+ we're not sub 25 wins. Maybe 30-35. If he reverts, that's a different story.

I would argue that Scottie had a more impressive year this year than SGA in 2022. And he was a year younger as well. SGA only played 56 games that year. If Scottie misses 20+ games we will be a 25 win team again. It’s not hard to pivot tank in the second half of a season.

I don’t get why people think we’re too talented to bottom out next year. It’s easy to finesse.

Scottie is great, but that argument only holds up as long as "arrow goes up". If his numbers drop, the argument makes its self. Like, 17ppg while shooting 30% from three isn't that special. It wont be his team at that point.

Duffman100 wrote:

Chandan wrote:

Harry Palmer wrote:
How are we in a better spot? Serious question. If the objective is the doldrums, maybe. But is it?

Some people ripped on the Magic last year calling them a poverty franchise.

I like that magic rebuild. They still don't have a true #1. They're gonna have to find a miracle trade to get it.

So an 11 year tank it is

I think we'll still be in the lottery. Probably mid to late. Because of the flattening of the percentages any team can move up into the top 4.

Outside of Flagg there are a number of prospects that I love in this draft. Tre Johnson, Khamam Maluach, VJ Edgecomb, Isaiah Evans, Nolan Traore and more. Reminds me of the 2021 draft in terms of it's depth in quality prospects.

ArthurVandelay wrote:

Badonkadonk wrote:

LoveMyRaps wrote:Bro it's about time, we entered the sweepstakes for a generational talent.

Flagg is gonna be special, but even the 'consolation' prizes in this draft have superstar potential.

Lay it out. What's your plan to 25 wins?

Trade Poeltl.
Start Kelly.
Play the kids.
Rest strategically.

Disagree with the last point.

The tanking move should be made via roster construction. Whatever roster we have I want them, and the coach, to be trying to win.

If Jakob is on the roster, I don't want a tank because it won't work.

.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

wegotthabeet wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:Shae was in the MVP conversation at 24, he was putting up 25ppg at 23 years old.

If Scotties putting up 25+ we're not sub 25 wins. Maybe 30-35. If he reverts, that's a different story.

I would argue that Scottie had a more impressive year this year than SGA in 2022. And he was a year younger as well. SGA only played 56 games that year. If Scottie misses 20+ games we will be a 25 win team again. It’s not hard to pivot tank in the second half of a season.

I don’t get why people think we’re too talented to bottom out next year. It’s easy to finesse.

Scottie is great, but that argument only holds up as long as "arrow goes up". If his numbers drop, the argument makes its self. Like, 17ppg while shooting 30% from three isn't that special. It wont be his team at that point.

Again SGA “regressed” in 2022 and shot 30% from 3. Still his team though.

DG88 wrote:I think we'll still be in the lottery. Probably mid to late. Because of the flattening of the percentages any team can move up into the top 4.

Outside of Flagg there are a number of prospects that I love in this draft. Tre Johnson, Khamam Maluach, VJ Edgecomb, Isaiah Evans, Nolan Traore and more. Reminds me of the 2021 draft in terms of it's depth in quality prospects.

We will be worse next year. No question about it the spurs and Grizz pass us

Barnes will be miserable and gone if we don’t plan to win until after we have drafted and developed a player who isn’t even in the nba yet.

Our core is 23-25. You don’t have 3 years to become good. Next year we need to be .500 and the following year we need to be on the come up.

If they were 19-21 go ahead and tank a year. But this will become miserable and toxic if you make these guys lose for the next 3 years

They will probably do what they have done the last few years. Try to compete, and if injuries or something else results in a poor start to the season, by the last third of the schedule they will tank hard to improve their chances for a higher draft spot.

I don’t see this team pulling a Wiz and tanking hard from the start.

wegotthabeet wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

wegotthabeet wrote:
I would argue that Scottie had a more impressive year this year than SGA in 2022. And he was a year younger as well. SGA only played 56 games that year. If Scottie misses 20+ games we will be a 25 win team again. It’s not hard to pivot tank in the second half of a season.

I don’t get why people think we’re too talented to bottom out next year. It’s easy to finesse.

Scottie is great, but that argument only holds up as long as "arrow goes up". If his numbers drop, the argument makes its self. Like, 17ppg while shooting 30% from three isn't that special. It wont be his team at that point.

Again SGA “regressed” in 2022 and shot 30% from 3. Still his team though.

He's an "arrow goes up" guy. Points have never really dropped off. Shooting from three dipped, but he was still putting up 25ppg.

Scottie doesn't really have any room for regression here. If we're top four, the guy we're drafting is waaay better.

Regardless of what my opinion is on whether they should or shouldn't....

I don't think Raptors ownership/ management flat out tank next year. I think they see what BBQ Dick can do & go from there.

With increased understanding of the system & the developing team chemistry, I just don't see how the Raps have top 10 pick next seson.

I think Quickley takes a pretty big step next season. Scotties marginally improves & RJ figures out his fit on the team. There already seemed to be some decent chemistry developing between the 3 before the injuries started happening.

How would BBQ feel about an intentional tank? They've all had a taste of playoffs, now watching their peers in the playoff spotlight. They couldn't be happy to have another losing year and no playoffs.

WaltFrazier wrote:How would BBQ feel about an intentional tank? They've all had a taste of playoffs, now watching their peers in the playoff spotlight. They couldn't be happy to have another losing year and no playoffs.

All three guys are pretty much locked in on long-term contracts.

Anyways its a moot point. We're not "intentionally tanking". It'll have to be strategic, like trading Poeltl for picks or making no effort to improve the bench.

WaltFrazier wrote:How would BBQ feel about an intentional tank? They've all had a taste of playoffs, now watching their peers in the playoff spotlight. They couldn't be happy to have another losing year and no playoffs.

Probably won't like it. Hence, why the process should have started earlier. But they might buy into it if there is an actual plan. SGA did.